Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

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  • #121
I suspect foul play. Reason, they seem to have died while in an act of 1- taking medication, then falling, meds all over, heater falls. 2- while going outside, door open, sunglasses on or in hand. It probably was morning since the indoor dog was still in the bench, the other two outside (freezing temperatures). Lady taking her meds, man on his way to the garden. No two sudden deaths, or suicide together in different rooms. IMO
I think it could have been natural causes.

If Betsy died first Gene could have been outdoors at the time and fallen when he came inside. Without Betsy to help him he might not have been able to get up from the floor, or he could have suffered sudden cardiac arrest. It’s not hard to imagine that a 95 year old man could have suffered death by natural causes.

The two dogs that were able to freely move about the home and outdoors would have survived. The dog that was either in a cage, crate, kennel, or closet was unable to get to food or water.

All JMO
 
  • #122
I suspect foul play. Reason, they seem to have died while in an act of 1- taking medication, then falling, meds all over, heater falls. 2- while going outside, door open, sunglasses on or in hand. It probably was morning since the indoor dog was still in the bench, the other two outside (freezing temperatures). Lady taking her meds, man on his way to the garden. No two sudden deaths, or suicide together in different rooms. IMO
I was thinking that surely, if one victim found the other fallen on the ground, the immediate reaction would be to check them out and try to help - especially to look at the beloved's face and ask 'are you okay". Try to comfort them.

Even if you don't normally go down on the ground, wouldn't he have done that if he found her in the bathroom?

Not instantly leave beloved sprawled uncomfortably on ground and go for help.

So, I think there'd be signs of an attempt to reposition one of the bodies, to see their face, move their arms to hold their hands, move the head and shoulderd to make the victim more comfortable, if one had found the other fallen.
 
  • #123
I think it could have been natural causes.

If Betsy died first Gene could have been outdoors at the time and fallen when he came inside. Without Betsy to help him he might not have been able to get up from the floor, or he could have suffered sudden cardiac arrest. It’s not hard to imagine that a 95 year old man could have suffered death by natural causes.

The two dogs that were able to freely move about the home and outdoors would have survived. The dog that was either in a cage, crate, kennel, or closet was unable to get to food or water.

All JMO
'Could have' but statistically extremely unlikely, IMO

ETA: I meant both deaths disconnected with each other.
 
  • #124
I think it could have been natural causes.

If Betsy died first Gene could have been outdoors at the time and fallen when he came inside. Without Betsy to help him he might not have been able to get up from the floor, or he could have suffered sudden cardiac arrest. It’s not hard to imagine that a 95 year old man could have suffered death by natural causes.

The two dogs that were able to freely move about the home and outdoors would have survived. The dog that was either in a cage, crate, kennel, or closet was unable to get to food or water.

All JMO
Reporter | 00:09:15
Were you able to determine whether they fell or not? Was there any trauma evidence on the bodies to suggest a fall?

Sheriff Adan Mendoza | 00:09:28
No, I don’t think there was any indication of that. Again, there was no trauma indicated on the body. I'm assuming if they would have fallen or injured themselves, or if there was a head injury or brain injury, that would have been discovered by the pathologist.

source
 
  • #125
I think it could have been natural causes.

If Betsy died first Gene could have been outdoors at the time and fallen when he came inside. Without Betsy to help him he might not have been able to get up from the floor, or he could have suffered sudden cardiac arrest. It’s not hard to imagine that a 95 year old man could have suffered death by natural causes.

The two dogs that were able to freely move about the home and outdoors would have survived. The dog that was either in a cage, crate, kennel, or closet was unable to get to food or water.
Exactly this.
The only unusual thing would be the sudden death of Betsy. Everything else follows.
If she went to the bathroom while he was out, Gene may not even have been aware that Betsy had fallen ill/died.
 
  • #126
Reporter | 00:09:15
Were you able to determine whether they fell or not? Was there any trauma evidence on the bodies to suggest a fall?

Sheriff Adan Mendoza | 00:09:28
No, I don’t think there was any indication of that. Again, there was no trauma indicated on the body. I'm assuming if they would have fallen or injured themselves, or if there was a head injury or brain injury, that would have been discovered by the pathologist.

source
Cardiac arrest can leave no observable signs of injury.

I’m not saying that is what happened, but definitely a possibility.

Gene obviously had previous heart issues or he wouldn’t have had a pacemaker.

JMO
 
  • #127
Exactly this.
The only unusual thing would be the sudden death of Betsy. Everything else follows.
If she went to the bathroom while he was out, Gene may not even have been aware that Betsy had fallen ill/died.
That is what I was thinking. Because sunglasses were found next to him on the floor I think he was coming in the house when he fell.
 
  • #128
I was thinking that surely, if one victim found the other fallen on the ground, the immediate reaction would be to check them out and try to help - especially to look at the beloved's face and ask 'are you okay". Try to comfort them.

Even if you don't normally go down on the ground, wouldn't he have done that if he found her in the bathroom?

Not instantly leave beloved sprawled uncomfortably on ground and go for help.

So, I think there'd be signs of an attempt to reposition one of the bodies, to see their face, move their arms to hold their hands, move the head and shoulderd to make the victim more comfortable, if one had found the other fallen.
That's something that I did not even consider! Could Gene and Betsy have been repositioned? That would throw off the investigation if they were.

Put Betsy in the bathroom, scatter some pills about.
 
  • #129
Reporter | 00:09:15
Were you able to determine whether they fell or not? Was there any trauma evidence on the bodies to suggest a fall?

Sheriff Adan Mendoza | 00:09:28
No, I don’t think there was any indication of that. Again, there was no trauma indicated on the body. I'm assuming if they would have fallen or injured themselves, or if there was a head injury or brain injury, that would have been discovered by the pathologist.

source
I think what the Sheriff might mean is that death wasn't caused by a fall. That falling to the ground was because of something else that caused their deaths.

IMO, if someone fell and couldn't stand up again, but was conscious, they can and would at least attempt to crawl, or make themselves more comfortable.
 
  • #130
Reporter | 00:09:15
Were you able to determine whether they fell or not? Was there any trauma evidence on the bodies to suggest a fall?

Sheriff Adan Mendoza | 00:09:28
No, I don’t think there was any indication of that. Again, there was no trauma indicated on the body. I'm assuming if they would have fallen or injured themselves, or if there was a head injury or brain injury, that would have been discovered by the pathologist.

source
I think he means, tripped and fell and that caused their deaths. Like falling was the cause of death. IMO

Obviously, they DID fall down because they were both on the floor.
 
  • #131
'Could have' but statistically extremely unlikely, IMO
ETA: I meant both deaths disconnected with each other.
I disagree. Without Betsy, Gene was hugely more vulnerable. If he knew what had happened to her, he would be upset and panicking and even more likely to fall. And he wouldn't be able to get up.
 
  • #132
Exactly this.
The only unusual thing would be the sudden death of Betsy. Everything else follows.
If she went to the bathroom while he was out, Gene may not even have been aware that Betsy had fallen ill/died.
Also, the fact that Betsy was found in the bathroom. Maybe she had sudden onset of severe headache and went into the bathroom to get medication.
 
  • #133
I disagree. Without Betsy, Gene was hugely more vulnerable. If he knew what had happened to her, he would be upset and panicking and even more likely to fall. And he wouldn't be able to get up.
Yes, I meant completely independently (as I added in an edit).

So not that he came in, had a heart attack, and she had just happened to have had something similar, too.

That's statistically very weird.
 
  • #134
Any bruising caused by a fall would be camouflaged by post-mortem lividity.
Blood stops circulating after death and in a process called hypostasis, it will settle in the lowest parts of the body.
So when someone has fallen and died where they fell, there wll be discolouration of the parts touching the ground.

What they are saying here is that there was no apparent injury occasioned by a fall that would have been fatal.
Not that they didn't fall.
This was my reply last time you posted this
I'm posting it again as you must have missed it.
Reporter | 00:09:15
Were you able to determine whether they fell or not? Was there any trauma evidence on the bodies to suggest a fall?

Sheriff Adan Mendoza | 00:09:28
No, I don’t think there was any indication of that. Again, there was no trauma indicated on the body. I'm assuming if they would have fallen or injured themselves, or if there was a head injury or brain injury, that would have been discovered by the pathologist.

source
 
  • #135
That's something that I did not even consider! Could Gene and Betsy have been repositioned? That would throw off the investigation if they were.

Put Betsy in the bathroom, scatter some pills about.
Possibly, but I was more thinking that's what LE will be looking for, as they attempt to reconstruct what happened, if it was not foul play.
 
  • #136
Honestly? I think it was totally natural, but the true reason may not be ever found. If they both regularly saw doctors, then we’ll be able to weigh in probabilities for different scenarios. But, Betsy was 65, young as compared to Gene, but things happen at 65, too. A clot, an arrhythmogenic event, a heart attack, an aneurysm, whatnot.
With Gene…in my dad’s family, many ancestors died around the age of 92-94. Honestly, you don’t need a “specific” reason to die at this age. Exhausted resources or left without a caregiver for a few hours would be enough.
I doubt that Gene’s children or anyone who stood to inherit had anything to do with it. They aren’t young either. They likely have established lives. At one point, their dad got a divorce and several years later, married a woman close to their age. Whatever problems it might have caused initially, it has long been resolved.
As to children not checking on Gene? It might have been an established bilateral mode of existence. They likely spoke to Betsy and had cordial relationship with her. They knew she took a very good care of him. They definitely didn’t expect her to die.
I don’t think there is much to discuss here. Gene was an amazing actor. After retirement, he wrote several books. He doesn’t have any scandals attached to his name. I hope that his money will be inherited by his children as he and Betsy had no children together and it all will have a decent ending, without any arguments of squabbles.
Mostly, he chose such a life - remote, with a woman he loved. They both did. I know that old people’s fear is to die bedridden. Gene was frail, but still walking. Still able to enjoy the sunshine and the late winter air. I hope that it was fast for both of them. As to Ms. Arakawa, I don’t know much about her, but perhaps she liked solitude? I think they both preferred it this way.
 
  • #137
Yes, I meant completely independently (as I added in an edit).
So not that he came in, had a heart attack, and she had just happened to have had something similar, too.
That's statistically very weird.
Apologies, I misunderstood.
 
  • #138
Yes, I meant completely independently (as I added in an edit).

So not that he came in, had a heart attack, and she had just happened to have had something similar, too.

That's statistically very weird.
A bit unusual in her case, but not in the case of a 95 year old. But we don’t know a thing about her health history. Did she have heart problems? A history of blood clots? High blood pressure? Etc. many things that could contribute to a sudden death.

That is why I think maybe she died first, he fell, then unable to get up without her help suffered a cardiac event.
 
  • #139
  • #140
This was my reply last time you posted this
I'm posting it again as you must have missed it.
Obviously they fell; they were both found on the floor an opposed to lying in bed or sitting in a chair.
 
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