Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

[ClearAhead]

Well, it’s my opinion that they had ate something they shouldn’t have. Whether it was intentionally, or un-intentionally. Someone could have brought them food, desert, anything really, or simply - they had ate&/ made food that had botulism or something similar.

This scenario doesn’t require an intruder.

I can’t imagine a person experiencing sudden death while standing, wearing daytime clothing, from something they ate. JMO

 

[Deleted member 235284]

I can’t imagine a person experiencing sudden death while standing, wearing daytime clothing, from something they ate. JMO

I mean I guess its possible right? But seems very unlikely to me.

 

[bombardier]

I don't think we can draw any conclusions because the autopsy findings have not been released.

"The manner and cause of death have not been determined" - IMO this was said to stop people asking questions.
It's not just about the immediate causes of death, they need to try and work out what happened and get a fuller picture, taking everything into account.

I will be astonished if these deaths are down to anything other than misfortune.

agreed; not to keep harping on about autopsy stuff (im new to the industry and just get excited whenever i can talk about it, lol), but typically, immediately after an autopsy or within the next couple days, the pathologist would produce a quick preliminary report if appropriate. the FULL report will not be done until all testing is back, with tox typically taking the longest. there's no reason for law enforcement to release a prelim report to the public (we are really not owed any information at all), when they may have to amend it anyway when the full report is released. much easier to release info late than redact info released too soon!

 

[Cherwell]

I'm curious what has caused LE to be uncertain about who was last to see Betsy and Gene alive.

It says the last to "have contact" or "speak to them" - not see them alive. Big difference.

 

[friendlysleuther]

I can’t imagine a person experiencing sudden death while standing, wearing daytime clothing, from something they ate. JMO

“Signs and symptoms of poisoning might include eye redness and lacrimation, nose and throat irritation, cough, suffocation or choking sensation, and dyspnea”
CDC: Chemical Poisoning

IMO if someone is choking, (or experiencing the sensation of it) wouldn’t it be natural to assume they ended up on the ground? Like you’re trying to get something out of your throat almost / you can’t breathe.. idk if that makes sense but that’s how I take it. Could also explain why Betsy was grabbing medicine

 

[Ontario Mom]

“Signs and symptoms of poisoning might include eye redness and lacrimation, nose and throat irritation, cough, suffocation or choking sensation, and dyspnea”
CDC: Chemical Poisoning

IMO if someone is choking, (or experiencing the sensation of it) wouldn’t it be natural to assume they ended up on the ground? Like you’re trying to get something out of your throat almost / you can’t breathe.. idk if that makes sense but that’s how I take it. Could also explain why Betsy was grabbing medicine

Do we know this was what she was doing though?
Apologies in advance if it's been clarified but I don't recall seeing if it'd been disclosed what the pills were that were scattered on the bathroom counter, if they were perscription and if so, who they were prescribed to.

 

[ClearAhead]

“Signs and symptoms of poisoning might include eye redness and lacrimation, nose and throat irritation, cough, suffocation or choking sensation, and dyspnea”
CDC: Chemical Poisoning

IMO if someone is choking, (or experiencing the sensation of it) wouldn’t it be natural to assume they ended up on the ground? Like you’re trying to get something out of your throat almost / you can’t breathe.. idk if that makes sense but that’s how I take it. Could also explain why Betsy was grabbing medicine

Chemical poisoning generally doesn’t occur from eating chemicals. IMO the symptoms you’ve listed sound like symptoms of exposure to toxic chemicals.

 

[Deleted member 235284]

The pills could be such a massive red herring, she may not have been trying to get them at all merly they just happened to be around where she fell and they got knocked over in the process.

Certainly, from the ones listed in the search warrant, none would have helped in any kind of emergency situation.

 

[friendlysleuther]

What was the reaction of the police at the scene? Two people dead, different parts of the house, no external trauma, no signs of an intruder. No foul play. a tragic accident. The police gut reaction? There was a possible carbon monoxide leak.

The tests of the air at the scene were clean, however, at some 9 days post mortem. The original blood tests and examination were negative. Maybe new toxicology will come up with something. CO is very insidious, it kills you by blocking oxygen transport in the blood. The toxicology still might miss it because of the chemical changes post mortem.

Could it be some other airborne poison? A gaseous pesticide? Again the toxicology is important, but is at the mercy of the chemical and the decomposition.

I am surprised no one here has come up with some fictional nemesis to one of Gene Hackman's characters as the culprit. Maybe it is payback for the French Connection??

Carbon monoxide binds to hemoglobin in red blood cells and is not readily broken down after death..
National Library of Medicine- Carboxyhemoglobin Toxicity

They didn’t die from carbon monoxide poisoning..

 

[Warwick7]

Do we know this was what she was doing though?
Apologies in advance if it's been clarified but I don't recall seeing if it'd been disclosed what the pills were that were scattered on the bathroom counter, if they were perscription and if so, who they were prescribed to.

 

[friendlysleuther]

Chemical poisoning generally doesn’t occur from eating chemicals. IMO the symptoms you’ve listed sound like symptoms of exposure to toxic chemicals.

Botulism- Characterized by flaccid descending paralysis that begins with cranial nerve palsies and might progress to extremity weakness and respiratory failure.
CDC Diagnostics & Treatment of Botulism / 2021
Additional symptoms include (but not limited to): blurred or double vision, dysphagia (difficulty swallowing), breathing difficulties | National Health Service | Botulism

 

[friendlysleuther]

Do we know this was what she was doing though?
Apologies in advance if it's been clarified but I don't recall seeing if it'd been disclosed what the pills were that were scattered on the bathroom counter, if they were perscription and if so, who they were prescribed to.

we do not know who they were prescribed to

 

[doublestop]

There's quite a bit more info here about the dogs.
Sheriff's office makes error about Gene Hackman's dog in initial death report

 

[ClearAhead]

Botulism- Characterized by flaccid descending paralysis that begins with cranial nerve palsies and might progress to extremity weakness and respiratory failure.
CDC Diagnostics & Treatment of Botulism / 2021
Additional symptoms include (but not limited to): blurred or double vision, dysphagia (difficulty swallowing), breathing difficulties | National Health Service | Botulism

I’m sorry, I just can’t see this causing sudden death in two people. Eating something poisonous is more apt to cause sickness and result in bedrest.

But it’s your opinion, that’s fine with me.
JMO

Botulism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The disease begins with weakness, blurred vision, feeling tired, and trouble speaking. This may then be followed by weakness of the arms, chest muscles, and legs. Vomiting, swelling of the abdomen, and diarrhea may also occur. The disease does not usually affect consciousness or cause a fever.

 

[Luna20]

This is supposed to be from a family member. Is Daily Star like Daily Mail?

“Gene Hackman's daughter has said the family believe carbon monoxide poisoning may have cause of death”

Gene Hackman and wife 'died of carbon monoxide poisoning', says family

Gene Hackman was found dead at his home alongside his wife Betsy Arakawa and their dog, with police saying that they had found no signs of foul play

www.dailystar.co.uk

 

[ClearAhead]

This is supposed to be from a family member. Is Daily Star like Daily Mail?

“Gene Hackman's daughter has said the family believe carbon monoxide poisoning may have cause of death”

Gene Hackman and wife 'died of carbon monoxide poisoning', says family

Gene Hackman was found dead at his home alongside his wife Betsy Arakawa and their dog, with police saying that they had found no signs of foul play

www.dailystar.co.uk

I believe the daughters were interviewed within a day or two after the bodies were discovered and prior to the announcement by the Sheriff that testing revealed no evidence of CO.

I notice some of the less prominent media are several days behind in republishing stories published by other media sources.

 

[Luna20]

I believe the daughters were interviewed within a day or two after the bodies were discovered and prior to the announcement by the Sheriff that testing revealed no evidence of CO.

I notice some of the media are several days behind in republishing stories published by other media sources.

It is dated today but it could be an update to a previous report.

 

[friendlysleuther]

I’m sorry, I just can’t see this causing sudden death in two people. Eating something poisonous is more apt to cause sickness and result in bedrest.

But it’s your opinion, that’s fine with me.
JMO

Botulism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The disease begins with weakness, blurred vision, feeling tired, and trouble speaking. This may then be followed by weakness of the arms, chest muscles, and legs. Vomiting, swelling of the abdomen, and diarrhea may also occur. The disease does not usually affect consciousness or cause a fever.

Yes, I agree- we can both have our opinions! & hey, I’m always up for a good, (respectful) debate (-:
I hope it isn’t anything nefarious, of course!

• Woman arrested after arsenic-laced Christmas cake kills 3 family members in Brazil
• Sudden Death of a Young Adult Associated with Bacillus cereus Food Poisoning
• German man suspected of killing 21 co-workers by poisoning their food
• Woman sentenced to 25 years in prison for poisoning husband's drinking water with eye drops
• The cyanide poisonings that claimed seven lives | Tylenol Murders

 

[Deleted member 235284]

This is supposed to be from a family member. Is Daily Star like Daily Mail?

“Gene Hackman's daughter has said the family believe carbon monoxide poisoning may have cause of death”

Gene Hackman and wife 'died of carbon monoxide poisoning', says family

Gene Hackman was found dead at his home alongside his wife Betsy Arakawa and their dog, with police saying that they had found no signs of foul play

www.dailystar.co.uk

In terms of having a bad reputation when it comes to accuracy? if that's what you mean, then yes.

 

[Tricia]

*No More Advertisements
*Faster Server
*Amazing True Crime Discussions
Websleuths.com is getting better and better!
In return, if you could please help the families of the missing get the answers they deserve by becoming a subscriber to DNA Solves.com
By making a monthly donation to DNA Solves, you will personally be helping the families of the missing. You will be making a difference in their lives.
If you enjoy Websleuths, please, if possible, become a monthly subscriber to DNA Solves.com
We completely understand if you can't donate to DNA Solves at the moment. So, if you could please pass along the DNA Solves link on your social media and help get the word out about their great work, that would be wonderful.
Please post any questions HERE.
Thank you,
Tricia