Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #3

[MrsEmmaPeel]

A pity they went with the "she died a week before him" assumption instead of listening to what the Sheriff and the doctor actually said.
They may not have proof of life after 11 Feb, but the course of the illness was clearly explained and there is no way Betsy would have been able to drive and go shopping if she was in the last, fatal, stage of hantovirus.

I realize the NYC article may give off the idea that Betsy died a week before Gene, but if you read carefully, the words used suggest that this may be true but also may not be. The headline is "The 7 Days Gene Hackman's Wife Could No Longer Care for Him" which is probably true she couldn't care for him during that period instead of saying she died 7 days before him. In the article they say Betsy "died first, perhaps on Feb. 11, leaving Mr. Hackman, 95 years old with advanced Alzheimer’s, alone in the house for days. He is believed to have died a week later, on Feb. 18. I am not a great defender of the NYT, but they were very careful in this instance to be accurate. I think the three reporters did a good job, and wrote a balanced article. (italics are mine) What people take away is another matter.

​

 

[Cherwell]

That's the thing, people only skim read at best. They needed to spell it out. It still gives the impression she died days before he did, which may not have been the case at all.

 

[LadyL]

Transcript of Sheriff's Media Conf. on Fri.

@LadyL
Here's a link to transcript you might want to read.

https://turboscribe.ai/transcript/s...on-gene-hackman-and-wifes-death-investigation

Personally missing a few points when watching it live yesterday, I found it helpful to read today & reread to clarify some details.

thank you someone else had posted it and I read it

 

[priyaya]

That's the thing, people only skim read at best. They needed to spell it out. It still gives the impression she died days before he did, which may not have been the case at all.

I mean she still could have. I for one believe she was totally incapacitated or dead on the 11th. If she wasn't dead she wasn't caring for Gene so i don't see why people are so set on how many days it was. Gene didn't have her caring for him those 7 days no matter when she actually passed.

 

[Friday Fan]

I don't understand that. A mouse colony will reproduce fast enough, there'll be a whole new generation by the time they put down new traps. And they leave the dead mice in the traps to rot for a month? I really wonder about this so-called service.

I agree though, poisoning all the beings that will eat a freshly dead mouse lying in the open is truly terrible.

Bait boxes. They don't die in the boxes. They eat the bait and leave. Bait boxes are usually outside.
They are widely used all over the country. Go to your favorite store, mall or just about anywhere. You will see bait boxes placed about 30-50 feet apart around the perimeter of the building.

They are sorta inconspicuous, but then if you know what look for, you will start to see them everywhere.

Not the best picture, because they are usually mounted on a cement slab.

https://extensionpubs.unl.edu/publication/g1646/na/html/view

 

[Cedars]

Bait boxes. They don't die in the boxes. They eat the bait and leave. Bait boxes are usually outside.


Rats are filthy and they stink to high hell when they die between the walls. We would have a dead one between the walls every few weeks when we had snap traps in the attic. They would tell us to tear out the wall, but we would have been tearing out the wall every other week.

The poster I was responding to said they had traps in the boxes because they don't want to kill owls, etc. I was asking about that.

I have ocassional rats in my crawl space, I set traps and dispose of them myself with black jaw traps. It's not pleasant but at least I'm not allowing dead rats to lie around outside for the cats and other creatures to eat.

 

[Friday Fan]

The poster I was responding to said they had traps in the boxes because they don't want to kill owls, etc. I was asking about that.

I have ocassional rats in my crawl space, I set traps and dispose of them myself with black jaw traps. It's not pleasant but at least I'm not allowing dead rats to lie around outside for the cats and other creatures to eat.

Yes, there are traps in boxes, but they need to be checked almost daily etc. Usually pest control companies only do the trap thing when it's bad. One time, they set traps for us in the attic and came every other day or so for awhile. (They didn't catch anything)

The outdoor bait boxes are usually preventative.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

Yes I saw the one this morning, very nice to give credit where its due. Good thinking on @tomstrees part. I'm not a stranger to hantavirus we've had it up here in Alberta, Canada. but Its not something I would have thought of. Sometimes the simplest things get overlooked, like what was the pest person there for? That might have given us a clue.

Quotes from transcript.

"Numerous emails were unopened on her computer on February 11th. There was no additional outgoing communication from her or known activity after February 11th, 2025."

"Cell phone information, the cell phone information and the cell phone data is pending. We're working with state police to get the information from those phones but our investigation shows that the all the last known communication and activity from Ms. Arakawa was on February 11th."

"Based on the circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that Ms. Hackman passed away first with February 11th being the last time that she was known to be alive."

Too bad that the media said she DIED on 2/11 and Gene wandered around her dead body for 7 days. Who does email when you have a fever and vomiting?

 

[JDG]

That's the thing, people only skim read at best. They needed to spell it out. It still gives the impression she died days before he did, which may not have been the case at all.

They pretty much did spell it out.

She was thought to have died on or about the 11 th, he on the 17th-18th or so.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

They were at home, the door being open means nothing.

Unless the pest company employee sensed something was different. If they never or rarely saw Gene and Betsy and the dogs were running around and barking and the door was open, they would have realized something might be wrong.

Also, regarding the boxes. . . our pest company requires us to have the monthly check or our warranty of exclusion is void. My husband empties the boxes on the ground (not on the roof.) If you use rodenticide, they come and restock the boxes. We are in the minority to use traps in the boxes, but other people do too. It's a kind of racket, but right now we have to pay the monthly fee until their work excluding from our crawl space is entirely done. I know my wealthy friend pays the monthly fee just because she can, and it makes her feel better. Doesn't think about it. Auto withdrawal from bank account and she never sees the people who stop by.

 

[Cherwell]

I mean she still could have. I for one believe she was totally incapacitated or dead on the 11th. If she wasn't dead she wasn't caring for Gene so i don't see why people are so set on how many days it was. Gene didn't have her caring for him those 7 days no matter when she actually passed.

What makes you think that? She was out driving and shopping until late afternoon on the 11th.

They pretty much did spell it out.
She was thought to have died on or about the 11 th, he on the 17th-18th or so.

Nobody said that they thought she died on the 11th. They said that was the last date that she was known to be alive.

The ME gave a clear description of the progress of hantavirus pulmonary syndrome.
Flu-like symptoms which can last three to six days.
Then death can follow in 24 to 48 hours.

So if she was well enough to go out on the 11th, I can't see her dying less than four days later, and possibly up to a week.
If her initial symptoms were relatively mild, she could have still been looking after Gene to a degree.

Dr Jarrell: "The question was regarding shortness of breath with Hantavirus, and what kind of medical episode would we expect from somebody found on the floor? And I think to be able to answer that question fairly, it can go back to Hantavirus infection, which initiates with what's called a prodromal phase. That's initially flu-like symptoms, where a person has fever and muscle aches, they don't feel well, after of course being exposed to rodent excrement, and that phase can last roughly three to six days, and then they can transition to that pulmonary phase where they have fluid in their lungs and around their lungs, and at that point a person can die very quickly within 24 to 48 hours, roughly speaking, without medical treatment."

 

[Cherwell]

Unless the pest company employee sensed something was different. If they never or rarely saw Gene and Betsy and the dogs were running around and barking and the door was open, they would have realized something might be wrong.

Oh sure, but some people have implied that the open door suggested that a third party was involved in some way.

 

[Warwick7]

Exactly. It doesn't mean that she died that day.
If she was starting to feel unwell she might not have felt like bothering with emails.
I check my emails several times a day, but I'm aware that many people do not, and perhaps she was one of those.

Exactly. It doesn't mean that she died that day.
If she was starting to feel unwell she might not have felt like bothering with emails.
I check my emails several times a day, but I'm aware that many people do not, and perhaps she was one of those.

Quotes from transcript.

"Numerous emails were unopened on her computer on February 11th. There was no additional outgoing communication from her or known activity after February 11th, 2025."

"Cell phone information, the cell phone information and the cell phone data is pending. We're working with state police to get the information from those phones but our investigation shows that the all the last known communication and activity from Ms. Arakawa was on February 11th."

"Based on the circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that Ms. Hackman passed away first with February 11th being the last time that she was known to be alive."

"Based on Based on the circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that Ms. Hackman passed away first with February 11th being the last time that she was known to be alive."

(February 11th being the last time she was known to be alive."

 

[Warwick7]

What makes you think that? She was out driving and shopping until late afternoon on the 11th.

Nobody said that they thought she died on the 11th. They said that was the last date that she was known to be alive.

The ME gave a clear description of the progress of hantavirus pulmonary syndrome.
Flu-like symptoms which can last three to six days.
Then death can follow in 24 to 48 hours.

So if she was well enough to go out on the 11th, I can't see her dying less than four days later, and possibly up to a week.
If her initial symptoms were relatively mild, she could have still been looking after Gene to a degree.

Dr Jarrell: "The question was regarding shortness of breath with Hantavirus, and what kind of medical episode would we expect from somebody found on the floor? And I think to be able to answer that question fairly, it can go back to Hantavirus infection, which initiates with what's called a prodromal phase. That's initially flu-like symptoms, where a person has fever and muscle aches, they don't feel well, after of course being exposed to rodent excrement, and that phase can last roughly three to six days, and then they can transition to that pulmonary phase where they have fluid in their lungs and around their lungs, and at that point a person can die very quickly within 24 to 48 hours, roughly speaking, without medical treatment."

"Based on the circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that Ms. Hackman passed away first with February 11th being the last time that she was known to be alive."

 

[Warwick7]

Too bad that the media said she DIED on 2/11 and Gene wandered around her dead body for 7 days. Who does email when you have a fever and vomiting?

The ME said "Based on the circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that Ms. Hackman passed away first with February 11th being the last time that she was known to be alive."

 

[Auntie Cipation]

The ME said "Based on the circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that Ms. Hackman passed away first with February 11th being the last time that she was known to be alive."

Yes. And so anytime AFTER the 11th is when she could have died, with the general knowledge of how her illness typically unfolds suggesting she probably felt quite ill for 3-6 days before dying.

And of course anytime BEFORE the 18th, when GH's pacemaker last showed any activity, would fit with BA dying FIRST.

I think (MOO) BA likely was alive (but too ill to care to deal with phone or email) until maybe the 15th,16th or even 17th.

 

[Warwick7]

Exactly. It doesn't mean that she died that day.
If she was starting to feel unwell she might not have felt like bothering with emails.
I check my emails several times a day, but I'm aware that many people do not, and perhaps she was one of those.

Your understanding and my understanding differ on "being the last time that she was known to be alive."

 

[STAGNUM]

Too bad that the media said she DIED on 2/11 and Gene wandered around her dead body for 7 days. Who does email when you have a fever and vomiting?

I am thinking the same thing. If she was sick she may have been toughing it out caring for GH and ignoring calls. Probably sleeping a lot not realizing she had something potentially terminal. In which case she may have lingered on closer to the 17th/18th when she fell and died. At some point GH had fallen and he may have laid there a day or two earlier than his heart went out, perhaps not wandering around for full 7 days perhaps woken up himself to finding her dead closer to 17th/18th. All this makes for some debate, not only for the "public that has to know", but for the families as whichever died first weighs in on the way the estate is distributed. I don't think BA had any siblings, however she may have been financial source of care for her mom who at this time has survived her. The medical examiner has decided she has cause and time of death nailed down and I guess that settles it. There will remain the question of the phone contents and whether there were communications that affect either decedents death certificate. I find this especially sad for BA because she had a long life ahead of her had this not occurred.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Your understanding and my understanding differ on "being the last time that she was known to be alive."

If she wasn't wearing a recording device (pacemaker, fitbit, etc) and didn't leave the development through the gate with video, then the only evidence that would be available for authorities to use to assess her state, would be her electronic communications with others.

I should think we could all agree that a person could be at home, not communicating with anyone outside the home, and yet still be alive. (I do it regularly )

So the fact that evidence of her "known to be alive" only reaches until late on the 11th, is not in and of itself a sign she died the instant after sending her last email or the moment she entered the house after returning from her errands.

Of course we don't know. But wouldn't "the typical course of her illness" be the most likely guess we could make?

MOO

 

[STAGNUM]

Here's where I'm stuck...

Alzheimers is progressive

Gene had a pacemaker and needed medication so he was being seen by a doctor.

Betsy was the sole caregiver and would have been in touch with his medical team.

How would a medical team allow a person in his state,which would have been diagnosed, to only be cared for by a non medical professional?

Alzheimers is progressive. For it to be at that late of a stage he obviously couldn't care for himself and requires round the clock care.

In the US you can have a family memeber be your primary care giver but it is still regulated with regular checkins. Given the passage of time and lack of communication it does not appear this was the case.

How could a person on medications and with his level.of disease be taken so far off the grid with zero check ins or regulations

I think becky was just blinded by her love and devotion

The space heater on the floor tells me she had a fever with chills. Gives.me some hope she was so delirious that she went quick. Maybe I. The only one here but if she kept suffering for days I can't imagine how painful it was as a caregiver to be so far incapacitated you couldn't help

For BETSY, she was his caretaker 24/7/365 and his decline was probably very gradual in her estimation. A medical professional seeing him every 3 or 6 months may have been more critical. There are no reports that he was wandering around lost or unfed. More likely the consistent care by BA was familiar and reassuring to him. There is certainly no criminal negligence on the part of BA. She was his best caregiver. Until she was sick and died. Nobody saw that coming. She didn't or she would have called for help. And we will never know how much she relied on him in her worst times.