Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #3

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I haven't backread so forgive me if this has been posted somewhere in this thread. Do we know what specific grocery items were in the grocery bag? For instance were some of them items that should have been refrigerated or were they "dry" goods only?

The ABC show did not state exactly what was on the counter. The staged video showed fresh things in sticking out the top of the bag. That's what i remember.

 

[NCWatcher]

The ABC show did not state exactly what was on the counter. The staged video showed fresh things in sticking out the top of the bag. That's what i remember.

Most of us are seeming to think BA wasn't "the type" to leave (non-perishable) groceries on the counter overnight. But we don't really know that do we?
MOO

 

[Cherwell]

Plus surely she expected she had covid or the flu. Probably instinctive to her to protect Gene from catching what she had. I imagine she thought she'd have to weather a few days. No one thinks hantavirus, I could be dead in the next half hour.

Gene may not have been entirely helpless and may have understood she was keeping her distance so he wouldn't get sick.

I think she had no idea what she had or how fatal or how fast she'd spiral.

This is why I thought she might have left it out to make it easier for Gene. It really depends what was there besides the dog food.

Make what you want of it and maybe watch the show and draw your own conclusions. I found it telling.

I'm in the UK so doubt it'd be available to me.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

This is why I thought she might have left it out to make it easier for Gene. It really depends what was there besides the dog food.


I'm in the UK so doubt it'd be available to me.

I watched in on HULU, the streaming service in US. I was surprised to see it.

 

[Warwick7]

"The footage -- released Friday by the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office -- features a phone call between a deputy and Gene's daughter Elizabeth."

"She tells police to cremate the dog at the county's animal shelter and bury the remains with Betsy. Elizabeth also tells police to kindly save the dog's collar."

Gene Hackman Death Case Body Cam Video, Daughter Says Cremate Dog, Bury With Wife

Gene Hackman's daughter told the sheriffs who found her father dead in his home to cremate his dead dog and bury its remains with that of his wife Betsy Arakawa ... according to newly released police body cam video .

www.tmz.com

 

[Warwick7]

Heartbreaking fate of Gene Hackman's deceased dog revealed by daughter

Gene Hackman's daughter asked that his dog be cremated and its remains buried with his late wife, Betsy Arakawa.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[HoneyBunOne]

"The footage -- released Friday by the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office -- features a phone call between a deputy and Gene's daughter Elizabeth."

"She tells police to cremate the dog at the county's animal shelter and bury the remains with Betsy. Elizabeth also tells police to kindly save the dog's collar."

Gene Hackman Death Case Body Cam Video, Daughter Says Cremate Dog, Bury With Wife

Gene Hackman's daughter told the sheriffs who found her father dead in his home to cremate his dead dog and bury its remains with that of his wife Betsy Arakawa ... according to newly released police body cam video .

www.tmz.com

That seems like a beautiful end to a tragic set of events. Saving the collar may mean a small, personal shrine to one of Betsy's best canine friends is forthcoming.

 

[al66pine]

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[ClearAhead]

On the topic of Santa Fe, the city holds other mysteries aside from the tragic sequence of events that led to the Hackmans’ deaths. One is the spiral staircase in the Loretto Chapel.

Staircase | Loretto Chapel

Loretto Chapel St Joseph Miraculous Staircase Santa Fe

www.lorettochapel.com

 

[Warwick7]

Most of us are seeming to think BA wasn't "the type" to leave (non-perishable) groceries on the counter overnight. But we don't really know that do we?
MOO

Interesting, we really don't. We only have msm to go on. In this link it gives us a part of Betsy's personality. I am going to guess she wasn't the type to leave things laying around and not put away or put up. M00

• she was consistent, predictable

• never once missed a food or meds pickup

• youthful, energetic woman

• She reliably brought the dogs to appointments

• First responders noted how clean and organized the home appeared, Moya said. “It was very neat, organized with no clutter,” he said.

• She was friendly, dutiful

A mask, a cane and a frantic dog: Inside the final hours of Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa

The mysterious death of actor Gene Hackman and his wife rattled and baffled the Santa Fe community. New details emerge about the couple's final hours.

www.usatoday.com

 

[NCWatcher]

Interesting, we really don't. We only have msm to go on. In this link it gives us a part of Betsy's personality. I am going to guess she wasn't the type to leave things laying around and not put away or put up. M00

• she was consistent, predictable

• never once missed a food or meds pickup

• youthful, energetic woman

• She reliably brought the dogs to appointments

• First responders noted how clean and organized the home appeared, Moya said. “It was very neat, organized with no clutter,” he said.

• She was friendly, dutiful

A mask, a cane and a frantic dog: Inside the final hours of Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa

The mysterious death of actor Gene Hackman and his wife rattled and baffled the Santa Fe community. New details emerge about the couple's final hours.

www.usatoday.com

Yes, good points. But still, we don't really know what these first responders (& others cited) have as their baseline for what people's homes normally look like. When they are called, it's usually an emergency and is sometimes a crime scene. Also, it's not necessarily true, but often "reclusive" people are assumed to be hoarders. The fact this house didn't show evidence of hoarding may have stood out.

I do wonder what was in the bags. Dog food was mentioned but nothing else terribly specific. And BA apparently felt well enough to make several phone calls the next day....
MOO

 

[Joe Friday]

Without knowing if the food Betsy purchased at the Farmers Market was perishable, it is impossible to speculate if the food should have been put away in the refrigerator or perhaps leaving it on the counter was perfectly normal.

Bananas, Carrots, Peppers, Pineapple, Apples, Cucumbers, ect are all things that could have been left out on the counter and things that someone might buy at a Farmers Market (store). She very well could have put other things she purchased that were perishable away, but left some things out.

We know she got home around 5:30 PM and likely needed to take care of Gene since she was gone most of the day. Maybe she planned on putting the food away the next day, because it didn't matter if the food was left on the counter or not.

The next morning she wasn't feeling the best, calls the doctor, never got around to putting away the nonperishable items she left on the counter. Those items found by LE.

JMO

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

How many of you leave a bag of groceries, shopping from the drugstore and petfood store on the counter overnight, after arriving home at 5pm (ish)? I certainly don't. Even my messy husband doesn't. (Actually, we can't. Our dog would tear into the dogfood if it wasn't put away. And come to think of it, a grocery bag as well. ) Thank goodness, LE were sharp enough to realize that the shopping on the counter would help start their timeline. As for what kind of woman Betsy was, I think we've gotten an excellent idea of someone who managed her life and Gene's, cleaned the house herself, managed the property, took excellent care of three dogs according to a vet and dog daycare owner-- @Warwick7 lays it out very well. Maybe it's a thing women just know about other women. Silly to argue over, but I'll say it again. I found the bags on the counter poignant. If that happened to me, my husband would know something was wrong. Clearly, LE were struck by it since it made the ABC doc and the Sheriff mentions it.

 

[NCWatcher]

How many of you leave a bag of groceries, shopping from the drugstore and petfood store on the counter overnight, after arriving home at 5pm (ish)? I certainly don't. Even my messy husband doesn't. (Actually, we can't. Our dog would tear into the dogfood if it wasn't put away. And come to think of it, a grocery bag as well. ) Thank goodness, LE were sharp enough to realize that the shopping on the counter would help start their timeline. As for what kind of woman Betsy was, I think we've gotten an excellent idea of someone who managed her life and Gene's, cleaned the house herself, managed the property, took excellent care of three dogs according to a vet and dog daycare owner-- @Warwick7 lays it out very well. Maybe it's a thing women just know about other women. Silly to argue over, but I'll say it again. I found the bags on the counter poignant. If that happened to me, my husband would know something was wrong. Clearly, LE were struck by it since it made the ABC doc and the Sheriff mentions it.

I have left a bag on the counter overnight before. It's not something I do daily or even weekly. I've got lots of counter space though and certainly have done it more than once. (So has my sister and my sister-in-law.) Perhaps I'm the only one on WS who has but I don't see it as a big deal at all. And in BA's case since we have no idea what was in the bags except there was a bag of dog food, it is less of a big deal.to.me. Maybe it was a big deal for BA to do it at all but apparently the dog food left on the counter was untouched. I guess their dogs were well-trained (which would make it safer to leave bags.)

I think initially it may have seemed like a big deal to the investigators on the scene because some of the personnel involved in the case very likely thought BA came home on the 11th, left the full bags, went into the bathroom and then fell down & died. Obviously that didn't happen since she made multiple telephone calls the next morning.

Seems we'll never know why BA did it or if she'd ever done it before.
MOO

 

[Luna20]

Okay so no MSM source about a children’s inheritance battle. One of them hiring an estate attorney for unknown reasons is not proof of what business is involved. The adult children have lost their dad, they deserve peace and happiness and are as deserving of whatever inheritance they may receive as any other children of deceased parents IMO.

Exposed: Wounds behind the rift between Gene Hackman and his children

Gene Hackman fell to the 'temptations' of 'money and recognition' and drifted apart from three children, Christopher, Leslie, and Elizabeth as he carved a name for himself in Hollywood.

www.dailymail.co.uk

“His marriage ended in divorce and Hackman became somewhat absentee while the trio were 'growing up'. He 'lost touch' with Christopher, openly admitting that he was 'gone so much' while his son was at an 'age where he needed support and guidance'.

He seemingly maintained contact with Leslie and Elizabeth, who were both spotted on occasion accompanying him to film screenings and Hollywood events.

But Hackman has acknowledged his children had a difficult upbringing and struggled with having his 'success always hanging over their heads'.

It wasn't until he married his second wife in 1991 that the family began to heal. Arakawa was keen on helping Hackman reconcile with his children and encouraged him to invite them and his grandchildren over to their Santa Fe home…”

Did you see the four articles I posted in response to this?

For whatever reason he didn’t amend the 2005 Will to include the children over the last twenty years. But there was a reason.

No one knows the reason, and it’s no one’s business why he set it up that way. It was his personal choice to exclude his children and it is to be respected.

As it turns out, the children will inherit a portion so it’s wise to seek counsel. Since they will be receiving an equal amount they could have hired the same attorney. Christoper hired his own “pitbull” attorney so that is why there is talk about discord. No one knows why and no one needs to know.

 

[ClearAhead]

Did you see the four articles I posted in response to this?

For whatever reason he didn’t amend the 2005 Will to include the children over the last twenty years. But there was a reason.

No one knows the reason, and it’s no one’s business why he set it up that way. It was his personal choice to exclude his children and it is to be respected.

As it turns out, the children will inherit a portion so it’s wise to seek counsel. Since they will be receiving an equal amount they could have hired the same attorney. Christoper hired his own “pitbull” attorney so that is why there is talk about discord. No one knows and no one needs to know.

We know nothing of the arrangements within the Trust/s - is a separate and distinct means of bequeathing assets apart from a Will therefore it’s on a flawed basis to conclude that his children were excluded. The four articles you posted earlier don’t address Trusts at all but are a good example of how some media posts news stories that are copied from other news reports.

Steve S explained what Trusts are very well and as they aren’t probated through the courts, they’re not public documents so nobody knows the details other than those directly involved.
Did

Alpine
Tlcya

Some broad notes on your posts
1 As I mentioned before, GHs will is only going to handle assets that he owned personally at death (ie, it handles nothing that is designated as owned by a trust OR other legal entity that can own assets).
2 The existence of multiple trusts including a charitable trust tells me he had utilized the services of a topnotch planner to pass along assets to meet his wishes AND to avoid estate taxes.
3 My educated guess is that GHs intent was to own nothing (in his name) when he died, and the will won't even have to be probated because it has no assets to dispose of. Thus, if you challenge it, the best you can do is own all of that nothing or next to nothing. The assets you'd want aren't in that name.
4 Mention was made of royalty rights. No way that was ignored. Those are doubtless titled as already being owned by a trust. Not sure which one.
5 Assuming an 80M estate or so, the basic plan might have several trust (or other asset-owning) entities that he would use to hold assets. The goal would be to minimize estate taxes (with a goal of having nothing TAXABLE). Assets owned by the Living Trust would be taxable AFTER a certain amount that is exempt, but those going to charity arent taxed (thus a charitable trust or perhaps a charitable remainder trust, which would also offer tax reduction during his lifetime). He might also have had many assets he had gradually gifted (making the largest possible taxfree gifts rach year) to an IRREVOCABLE trust already OWNED by his intended beneficiaries (such as kids, grandkids) which he can use but they legally own -- that would not be taxable. The goal would be to have 0 owned by him, less than federal exemption of 13.5M ish owned by living trust, and the remainder either to charity or already technically owned by family.
... The little that we know hints that his advisors had him using all these methods to get his assets where he wanted, with no public scrutiny, little to no tax loss, no probate hassles.
6 Someone asked the cost of such help. Its almost impossible to say. The docs themselves would be customized but mostly boilerplate (because a trust is a trust is a trust) and easily doable for a few thou, but the large asset base would motivate a higher fee. It sounds like he may have also had assets being managed as he lived which would generate added fees.

If the family and advisors are discreet (and they have motivation to do that), we should never know any real details of how much there was and who got what. That's one major intent with such a setup.

 

[Luna20]

We know nothing of the arrangements within the Trust/s - is a separate and distinct means of bequeathing assets apart from a Will therefore it’s on a flawed basis to conclude that his children were excluded. The four articles you posted earlier don’t address Trusts at all but are a good example of how some media posts news stories that are copied from other news reports.

Steve S explained what Trusts are very well and as they aren’t probated through the courts, they’re not public documents so nobody knows the details other than those directly involved.
Did

I didn’t mention or address trust?

I’m speaking only about the exclusion of the children in his Will. That is the only thing that has been published as ‘fact’. I have no interest or expertise in the trust, as they have a life of their own.

 

[ClearAhead]

I didn’t mention or address trust?

I’m speaking only about the exclusion of the children in his Will. That is the only thing that has been published as ‘fact’. I have no interest or expertise in the trust, as they have a life of their own.

Well yes but if little or none of his $80 million assets are personal assets, instead if his wealth is all or mostly held in trust funds, then that his children were not named beneficiaries in the Will does not prove they were excluded from benefiting from his estate if they benefited via a Trust instead.

Beneficiaries, whether from a will or from a trust, financially benefit from an estate regardless of how it was arranged.

 

[Luna20]

Well yes but if little or none of his $80 million assets are personal assets, instead if his wealth is all or mostly held in trust funds, then that his children were not named beneficiaries in the Will does not prove they were excluded from benefiting from his estate if they benefited via a Trust instead.

Beneficiaries, whether from a will or from a trust, financially benefit from an estate regardless of which.

Again I am speaking solely about the ‘Will’, the exclusion of the children in the ‘Will’….nothing else.

The “if’s” of what ‘could’ be beneficiaries is of no matter to me. “Ifs” are just that-If’s. No one counts on “if’s”. Trust are not part of my post at all. I’m focused on what has been reported, not the “ifs”.

You responded to my original post with “seeing only one report”. I provided four more sources. You then jumped from that to Trust? Why try to move to a different subject? ‘Will’ is the subject of my post.

 

[ClearAhead]

Again I am speaking solely about the ‘Will’, the exclusion of the children in the ‘Will’….nothing else.

The “if’s” of what ‘could’ be beneficiaries is of no matter to me. “Ifs” are just that-If’s. No one counts on “if’s”. Trust are not part of my post at all. I’m focused on what has been reported, not the “ifs”.

You responded to my original post with “seeing only one report”. I provided four more sources. You then jumped from that to Trust? Why try to move to a different subject? ‘Will’ is the subject of my post.

My point is it cannot be accurately concluded that GH disinherited his children just because they were excluded from his will, without knowing anything about details within the trusts. It doesn’t matter if they weren’t named in the will if they were benefactors of a sizable portion of the $80 million via trust allotments. That’s it in a nutshell and that’s it from me on the topic.

ETA spelling