Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #3

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  • #1,021
My point is we cannot accurateky conclude GH disinherited his children just because they were excluded from his will, without knowing anything about details within the trusts. It doesn’t matter if they weren’t named in the will if they were benefactors of a sizable portion of the $80 million via trust allotments. That’s it in a nutshell and that’s it from me on the topic.

I understand your point but that has nothing to do with my post. I’m not sure if you are trying to convince me otherwise but the Will ‘is’ the Will and there is no debate in my mind about that.
 
  • #1,022
It's not complicated. Bringing up a trust in corse of a will conversation is important.

It is possible to be excluded from a will while still being a beneficiary of a trust, as a trust and a will are separate legal documents that can handle different assets and have different purposes.

A will outlines how your assets are distributed after your death, and it typically goes through a probate process.

A trust holds assets during your lifetime or after your death, and it can be used to manage those assets for the benefit of beneficiaries, potentially avoiding probate.

I only am aware of this because a dear friend of mine had this happen to her.

She is not named in the will. She is a beneficiary of a trust thst set up. She has access to the money in the trust. She has never been denied requests for money. She did not buy her home the trust did, but she gets to live there...etc...
 
  • #1,023
Not addresssing the Hackman -Arakawa matters specifically.
Some confusion stems from MSM reports not distinguishing btwn decedent's:

- Probate estate, passing thru court, whether decedent died testate or intestate, i.e., did or did not have a valid will, and

- Entire estate. May encompass the probate estate, trusts(s), plus other types of succession, such as thru community property; joint tenancy with right of survivalship; transfer on death accounts or properties; pay on death accounts. May include death benefits payable on life insurance policies. And more.

Specific types of property include cash and securities, real estate, insurance, trusts, annuities, personal property, business interests and other assets.

As to Hackman -Arakawa matters specifically,
- some or (perhaps?) all of the NM probate court filings may be public.
- trust documents are not.
imo moo jmo
 
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  • #1,024
May I add some important facts to the discussion? Some of this was noted above, and some was missed, but all of it is relevant to the ideas being raised. (FWIW my experience extends to dealing with literally hundreds of trusts over the last 30-35 years, probably in the thousands overall, and dealing with all these issues during life and then after death, both with others and with my own family.)

1 The reporting in this case had a mix of fact and fiction, but one of the most widely-mentioned pieces of fiction (or, a misleading idea at best) was the assertion that GH's family was "excluded" from the will. Pure fiction.

2 As mentioned, that probably wouldn't be a big deal in any event, because it's VERY likely the will isn't handling any assets. Or very few. (Personal household items, for example.)

3 But more important to note (and contrary to how this was widely reported), there was not any person whatsoever named as beneficiary in the will.
...It is a "pour-over will" which is a technical term describing a will whose sole purpose is to move overlooked or minimal value assets into a trust that has been created to handle the disposition of assets. In theory, ALL assets would have been already placed into trust ownership, but a pour-over will is a safety net. As long as the leftovers are not real estate and not worth 50K+ in total, the pour-over will does NOT have to go through the probate process (ie, it avoids court). If you want more info on such a will, google can help, and here is one NM law firm with online info Pour Over Will | Estate Planning Attorneys | New Mexico Legal Group

4 The will does have the name Betsy Arakawa in its wording, which is the source of the misinformation, and it does not have the kids names. BUT the will did not name her as the beneficiary in any way (or exclude the kids)! That's what is not being understood.

5 In addition, the will does NOT say that BA is a beneficiary of the trust either. That's also wrong info.

6 Instead, the Sole Named Beneficiary of the will is the personal trust of GH - the "Gene Hackman Living Trust" - and BA's name is given in the will because she was its initial successor trustee (iow, manager) of the trust who would have to make sure those assets are put into trust control. (There were alternates who were specified, and they are the ones now handling those tasks.) Here's a USA Today article that does a fairly good job of getting these facts right: Gene Hackman and wife Betsy Arakawa named each other in their wills
7 NOTE: That article does have some mention of their various trusts that have come to light over the years, and some details on those trusts, but those trust factoids gleaned are in large part from DECADES ago, and we have no way of knowing how that may have changed. It is vital to realize that the designations of a trust can be privately changed by the one who created it as his wishes change over the years, out of sight.

But one thing is becoming clear, which is that GH and BA had done considerable planning, with experts, to make sure their assets would go where they wanted, and be done in a way that will be kept private. They had created MULTIPLE trusts to cover the various needs, and assets will be moved (and likely have already been moved, through the years) from this trust to that. But what assets are not owned by another entity (and thus handled by the will), which are already in which trust, and where will they ultimately go, and why? We don't know anything for sure, and we don't even have a hint, and that's the way they wanted it.
 
  • #1,025
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  • #1,027
Different body cam footage, longer, lots of info.

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  • #1,028
May I add some important facts to the discussion? Some of this was noted above, and some was missed, but all of it is relevant to the ideas being raised. (FWIW my experience extends to dealing with literally hundreds of trusts over the last 30-35 years, probably in the thousands overall, and dealing with all these issues during life and then after death, both with others and with my own family.)

1 The reporting in this case had a mix of fact and fiction, but one of the most widely-mentioned pieces of fiction (or, a misleading idea at best) was the assertion that GH's family was "excluded" from the will. Pure fiction.

2 As mentioned, that probably wouldn't be a big deal in any event, because it's VERY likely the will isn't handling any assets. Or very few. (Personal household items, for example.)

3 But more important to note (and contrary to how this was widely reported), there was not any person whatsoever named as beneficiary in the will.
...It is a "pour-over will" which is a technical term describing a will whose sole purpose is to move overlooked or minimal value assets into a trust that has been created to handle the disposition of assets. In theory, ALL assets would have been already placed into trust ownership, but a pour-over will is a safety net. As long as the leftovers are not real estate and not worth 50K+ in total, the pour-over will does NOT have to go through the probate process (ie, it avoids court). If you want more info on such a will, google can help, and here is one NM law firm with online info Pour Over Will | Estate Planning Attorneys | New Mexico Legal Group

4 The will does have the name Betsy Arakawa in its wording, which is the source of the misinformation, and it does not have the kids names. BUT the will did not name her as the beneficiary in any way (or exclude the kids)! That's what is not being understood.

5 In addition, the will does NOT say that BA is a beneficiary of the trust either. That's also wrong info.

6 Instead, the Sole Named Beneficiary of the will is the personal trust of GH - the "Gene Hackman Living Trust" - and BA's name is given in the will because she was its initial successor trustee (iow, manager) of the trust who would have to make sure those assets are put into trust control. (There were alternates who were specified, and they are the ones now handling those tasks.) Here's a USA Today article that does a fairly good job of getting these facts right: Gene Hackman and wife Betsy Arakawa named each other in their wills
7 NOTE: That article does have some mention of their various trusts that have come to light over the years, and some details on those trusts, but those trust factoids gleaned are in large part from DECADES ago, and we have no way of knowing how that may have changed. It is vital to realize that the designations of a trust can be privately changed by the one who created it as his wishes change over the years, out of sight.

But one thing is becoming clear, which is that GH and BA had done considerable planning, with experts, to make sure their assets would go where they wanted, and be done in a way that will be kept private. They had created MULTIPLE trusts to cover the various needs, and assets will be moved (and likely have already been moved, through the years) from this trust to that. But what assets are not owned by another entity (and thus handled by the will), which are already in which trust, and where will they ultimately go, and why? We don't know anything for sure, and we don't even have a hint, and that's the way they wanted it.

Thank you for taking the time to explain this very clearly. Hopefully it puts an end to the notion that only named beneficiaries in a Will direct the disbursement of an entire estate.

The beneficiaries of the Hackman trusts might never be publicly known and no doubt Gene arranged it accordingly, in the same way they protected their privacy during the later years of their lives. As I recall it was reported even their home wasn’t registered in their personal names, thus preventing anyone from searching the location of their residence.
 
  • #1,029
The only part I might be interested to know about is which charities might benefit from their fortune.
 
  • #1,030
it reads “Based on the circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that Ms. Hackman passed away first with February 11th being the last time that she was known to be alive.”

The ME has stated Betsy was known to be alive on Feb 11th, not that she died on Feb 1th.
Is the ME dissembling or what? I feel like establishing the time of death is priority?
 
  • #1,031
<modsnip - quoted post was removed (bickering/personalizing)

Nobody has a source to the ME stating Betsy died on Feb 11th. Being known to have been alive on that date does not prove she died that day.

What the ME stated is the deadly progression of the final phases of the disease lasts three to six days when the lungs fill with fluid, death coming in 24 to 48 hours. So that being said, it cannot be expected the ME is able to determine an exact date of dead. Considering the advanced decomposition of the body when it was discovered, that’s not unusual.
You sound like you know what you’re talking about, how frustrating to go forward without an accurate time of death
 
  • #1,032
You sound like you know what you’re talking about, how frustrating to go forward without an accurate time of death

Depending on the outcome of these legal proceedings, further information pertaining to the deaths might be prevented from being published.

 
  • #1,033
Depending on the outcome of these legal proceedings, further information might not be published.

Can you make sense of this kind of gag order for a case like this? It’s clear you know how to ferret out the latest and reliable news updates without just regurgitating articles that have already been posted and confuse me. Thank you and. Bravo
 
  • #1,034
Can you make sense of this kind of gag order for a case like this? It’s clear you know how to ferret out the latest and reliable news updates without just regurgitating articles that have already been posted and confuse me. Thank you and. Bravo
They don't want gruesome footage of the decomposed bodies put out there. I don't think that's hard to understand. It's not necessary for the public to see that.
 
  • #1,035
They don't want gruesome footage of the decomposed bodies put out there. I don't think that's hard to understand. It's not necessary for the public to see that.
No you’re right, it’s not hard to understand, when examined in that way. Didn’t mean to imply it was unreasonable or difficult to understand but it looks like I had trouble understanding after all. Thanks for the insight. JMO MOO
 
  • #1,036
Can you make sense of this kind of gag order for a case like this? It’s clear you know how to ferret out the latest and reliable news updates without just regurgitating articles that have already been posted and confuse me. Thank you and. Bravo

I’m not an expert, by any means. Just like everyone else, I’m only sharing my opinions and comments but I especially have a distain for news reports about tragic situations which present derogatory insinuations, resulting from information is either misinterpreted or misunderstood, intentionally or otherwise.

And with each and every news report comes speculation so I’d assume the family just wants to put an end to it and if so, I can’t blame them. It is quite ironic how a couple whose accidental deaths have become so sensationalized, considering they intentionally sought privacy in their later years in life. JMO
 
  • #1,037
I’m not an expert, by any means. Just like everyone else, I’m only sharing my opinions and comments but I especially have a distain for news reports about tragic situations which present derogatory insinuations, resulting from information is either misinterpreted or misunderstood, intentionally or otherwise.

And with each and every news report comes speculation so I’d assume the family just wants to put an end to it and if so, I can’t blame them. It is quite ironic how a couple whose accidental deaths have become so sensationalized, considering they intentionally sought privacy in their later years in life. JMO
JMO MOO @ClearAhead its so great to have someone capable of articulating the importance of ethical journalism as well as an equal effort to preserve the dignity of human life, both still with us and life lost. I bet you navigate this forum really well and fairly. It’s so weird, I’ve seen people abandon all integrity on the online platforms when they feel ever so slighted by a more accurate or alternative news update or when someone has a different perspective. Are you in journalism? Is that not allowed? MOO JMO RJMO IPIJMO
 
  • #1,038
It's not complicated. Bringing up a trust in corse of a will conversation is important.

It is possible to be excluded from a will while still being a beneficiary of a trust, as a trust and a will are separate legal documents that can handle different assets and have different purposes.

A will outlines how your assets are distributed after your death, and it typically goes through a probate process.

A trust holds assets during your lifetime or after your death, and it can be used to manage those assets for the benefit of beneficiaries, potentially avoiding probate.

I only am aware of this because a dear friend of mine had this happen to her.

She is not named in the will. She is a beneficiary of a trust thst set up. She has access to the money in the trust. She has never been denied requests for money. She did not buy her home the trust did, but she gets to live there...etc...

BBM

as a “trust and a will” are “separate” legal documents that can handle different assets and have different purposes.

This ⏏️⏏️⏏️ is what my post were about. He could have left them ten million each in a safe. We don’t know and it doesn’t matter what provisions were made elsewhere.

I sincerely appreciate the post with thorough information. I though was solely speaking about the Will. I am not confused about the differences.

My brother in law is an Estate and Probate attorney. I have buried both parents and I was executor over my Aunts estate. Each case had its own variance of beneficiaries and charity designations. “A life of their own”

No response needed. I don’t want the thread to be shut down.
 
  • #1,039
They don't want gruesome footage of the decomposed bodies put out there. I don't think that's hard to understand. It's not necessary for the public to see that.

This is the same as when Ashley Judd had to petition the court to keep the body cam footage and family interviews at the scene of her mother's suicide from being made public.

Nobody needs to see this stuff.
 
  • #1,040
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