Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #3

[NuttMegg]

It could be just Money… if you pay someone enough money they will give you the prescriptions you need and stay out of your life.

There's a lot of discussion about whether or not currently prescribed meds for ALZ are even targeting the right problem rather than just a phenomenon, plaque. (IMO)

He probably needed to see the doc more for his heart & kidneys.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

To be honest, the Gene's Alzheimer diagnosis stunned me. I had thought Betsy might have had it, but for whatever reason I wasn't thinking Gene. For me, the Alzheimer's explains so much. Now it makes sense that his friends hadn't seen him in five years or that they had no housekeeper or staff. I believe Betsy was determined to spare Gene all that publicity and possibility of leaks to the press. From my experience with my mother's Alzheimer's I also know that doctors will not necessarily intervene or comment on areas that are not their expertise. So Gene could have seen a cardiologist and Alzheimer's would never be discussed. None of my mother's doctors ever discussed her mental state, not even her primary care doctor. We had to fight my stepdad to take her to a neurologist to get a diagnosis of early-late state Alzheimer's. He said, "Why do we need to know?" and many people do not want to know. But I now understand Betsy's behavior and it all makes sense.

 

[doublestop]

Here's where I'm stuck...

Betsy was the sole caregiver and would have been in touch with his medical team.

How would a medical team allow a person in his state,which would have been diagnosed, to only be cared for by a non medical professional?

Alzheimers is progressive. For it to be at that late of a stage he obviously couldn't care for himself and requires round the clock care.

In the US you can have a family memeber be your primary care giver but it is still regulated with regular checkins. Given the passage of time and lack of communication it does not appear this was the case.

There is no regulation about caring for Alzheimer's patients. My 86-year-old mom cared for my 90-year-old dad by herself except for my weekly drive up to help. He had regular doctor visits but at no time was it suggested that it was not appropriate for her to be the carer. The doctor had no power to "allow" or "not allow" her to be the carer.

 

[SMK777]

I am so angry that they have been betrayed by the media.
This from the BBC simply is not true. Dr Jarrell did say Betsy probably died first, but not that she died on 11 Feb.


There is no excuse for this misinformation. The press conference is available to check what was said and not said. The BBC used to be a reliable source second to none. It's no better than a gutter press tabloid now.

Agreed. That is where I received my initial impression that she died 7 days prior to Gene.

 

[K9Enzo]

I don’t know about anybody else but Iam honestly having a hard time with this hantavirus diagnosis. I mean now how much rat poop do you have to inhale for it to kill you.?

I believe dry conditions (such as where they lived) make it so much worse - cleaning up dry mice poop that becomes a dusty airborne inhalant as an example. I’m not saying that’s what she was doing to get it but it makes sense to me. imo

 

[tomstrees]

I believe dry conditions (such as where they lived) make it so much worse - cleaning up dry mice poop that becomes a dusty airborne inhalant as an example. I’m not saying that’s what she was doing to get it but it makes sense to me. imo

"Hantavirus is primarily transmitted to humans through inhaling airborne particles containing the virus, which are typically found in the urine, saliva, or droppings of infected rodents, most commonly when these materials are disturbed and become airborne during cleaning activities like sweeping or vacuuming; people can also become infected by touching contaminated materials and then touching their eyes, nose, or mouth, though this is less common". Google Search

Cold time of year, windows not opened much; they rely on the house's ventilation system. Personally I have a sprayer where I introduce oils such as eucalyptus into the air, but with substantial toxins they'd be ineffective. There probably is no substitute for a dedicated pest control system.

 

[Cherwell]

I don’t know about anybody else but Iam honestly having a hard time with this hantavirus diagnosis. I mean now how much rat poop do you have to inhale for it to kill you.?

Very little, and as I understand it, it's usually a particular type of mouse that carries hantavirus.
Are you suggesting that the autopsy findings were wrong?

 

[IceIce9]

I don’t know about anybody else but Iam honestly having a hard time with this hantavirus diagnosis. I mean now how much rat poop do you have to inhale for it to kill you.?

It doesn’t take much

The virus is present in the rodent's urine, feces or saliva. You can come in contact with the virus in the following ways:

• Inhaling viruses — the most likely form of transmission — when they become airborne from disturbed rodent droppings or nesting materials

• Eating food contaminated with mouse saliva, urine or droppings
• 
  
• Touching things contaminated with the virus, such as a nest, and then touching your mouth, eyes or nose

Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome-Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome - Symptoms & causes - Mayo Clinic

Learn about the rodent-transmitted virus that causes severe — and sometimes fatal — lung disease with flu-like symptoms that can rapidly worsen.

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[Fabled Automatic]

I was just going to note this myself! I was surprised to see many social media comments to the effect that they were not "buying" the official explanation, suspected extreme nefarious activities, etc. I guess too many CSI and crime shows....

Many people's knee jerk reaction is to distrust media. Healthy skepticism is fine, but some take it way too far. And of course, many simply stick with their confirmation bias outlets.

 

[ClearAhead]

I thought they did such a good job! And I am one to go for conspiracy theories (sometimes), but in this case, I don't see it. Thanks to @tomstrees, some of us had already been theorizing about hantavirus since Wednesday morning, before they even announced Friday's press conference with the NM Dept of Health. (and after they announced the press conference with the NM Dept of Health, then I became even more suspicious it could be hantavirus. it's a severe illness, up to 50% mortality in the southwest).

Why do I now feel like this case is going to go on and on in the media? MEDIA CIRCUS. It's because Gene Hackman was famous, and they were extremely wealthy.

I honestly feel bad for some of the investigators now b/c it's not their fault. The Medical Examiner didn't invent hantavirus, she's just doing her job. Furthermore, the fact that Betsy and Gene lived in isolation without external help like most celebrities (caregivers, cleaning personnel, personal chefs, etc.), or regular phone calls from family members to discover the bodies sooner isn't law enforcement's fault. And now they'll be blamed for it! [sarcasm]

I totally agree. On and on, like a novel or movie, people shouldn’t be expecting a detailed timeline but the media’s going to keep it going. ‘Blame’ is always a popular motivation and the media knows it.

No foul play was involved, what happened where and when really doesn’t matter anymore so merely satisfying the public’s curiosity isn’t a good enough reason to keep this investigation going.

Other than the two pieces of info which LE indicated would be forthcoming - more on the dog’s death and cellphone records, I think the couple’s privacy ought to be respected even in death, let them rest in peace.

JMO

 

[Fabled Automatic]

I wonder if any thing could be determined regarding Gene's use of the restroom, or lack there of, and use that information to determine how long it may have been since Gene was not receiving care from Betsy. In other words how long had been since he may have changed his cloths and how soiled was his clothing at the time of his death.

I don't have the want to, nor do I feel the public is entitled to know that information. I'm not sure it's relevant at this point. Just my opinion.

 

[IceIce9]

But there would be a case where someone no matter how healthy could care without anyone checking in for that long?

Of course. A doctor’s office might call if an appointment or two was missed but they don’t regularly call to check on patients.

I’ve worked in several physician offices over the years, each averaged around 2,000 patients. Often we would only find out a patient had died when we saw the obituary. Usually one of the front desk staff is assigned to scan the obituaries every day.
.

 

[IceIce9]

I don't have the want to, nor do I feel the public is entitled to know that information. I'm not sure it's relevant at this point. Just my opinion.

Right. I see no reason this private information should be released to the public.

 

[NuttMegg]

Sounds like many of us are in the same boat, caring for loved ones with dementia while hoping we'll stay free of it. In that vein I suggest reading about Type 3 diabetes. It's necessary to read, read, read, research.

Go deeper than WebMD.

Type 3 Diabetes and Alzheimer’s

There may be a link between Alzheimer’s and diabetes. Learn how insulin can affect brain function.

www.webmd.com

 

[Sunshynn]

I don't have the want to, nor do I feel the public is entitled to know that information. I'm not sure it's relevant at this point. Just my opinion.

Agree with this.

Gene and Betsy both led private lives for many, many years and it seems that Betsy was trying her hardest to keep it that way during Gene’s health decline. MOO.

They’ve already lost so much of that privacy due to the nature of their sad deaths - I see no reason to degrade them further by finding out about restroom habits and wardrobe changes leading up to their deaths.
We know how they died and that should be enough - imo.

 

[scoodyboo]

I know others posted questions about the pest control appointment.
Thinking about the timeline, the 911 call from the worker was on 2/26.

One article includes this:
"The two workers said they sometimes conducted routine work at the property, but rarely ever saw the couple.
They indicated that they communicated with them by phone and text, primarily with Ms Arakawa.
The two workers said they last had contact with the couple two weeks beforehand."
The local Santa Fe paper: "The two workers told deputies they had last made contact with the couple about two weeks prior."

Two weeks prior would be 2/12 but could be a few days earlier, I suppose.

 

[NuttMegg]

A non fiction book about 1 New Mexican family's ordeal with ALZ. It's for real, I ate dinner at their house "before".

Leaving Tinkertown

When Tanya Ward Goodman came home to New Mexico to visit her dad at the end of 1996, he was fifty-five years old and just beginning to show symptoms of the A...

www.unmpress.com

 

[priyaya]

I know others posted questions about the pest control appointment.
Thinking about the timeline, the 911 call from the worker was on 2/26.

One article includes this:
"The two workers said they sometimes conducted routine work at the property, but rarely ever saw the couple.
They indicated that they communicated with them by phone and text, primarily with Ms Arakawa.
The two workers said they last had contact with the couple two weeks beforehand."
The local Santa Fe paper: "The two workers told deputies they had last made contact with the couple about two weeks prior."

Two weeks prior would be 2/12 but could be a few days earlier, I suppose.

It seems more and more likely this all happened during an unfortunate 2 week period where nothing else was scheduled to go on.

 

[branmuffin]

A week or so ago, I wrote about my own personal situation with my mom and dad and how my dad was aware that my mother had either the beginnings of dementia or was already exhibiting behaviors that suggested she needed care and was trying to hide it from the family by always making excuses as to why we couldn't visit. At the time, I was not aware of anything amiss. Talking on the phone about pleasantries, etc. I got no indication.

After numerous attempts at making plans to visit (lived over 100 miles away) I finally just showed up one day. My dad stood at the doorway as if to bar me entrance but knew I was coming in one way or another. I walked in the house and my mom greeted me with a big grin on her face. She asked my dad to make some tea and we started talking about stuff. Everything seemed fine until my mom said, 'So how's your mom and dad doing?' I was completely blindsided and blurted out 'You're my mom!' She became confused for a minute and then said, 'No I'm not.' I just left it at that and we continued to talk.

But coming in without approval was just what my dad needed though, because the floodgates opened and he told me all sorts of stuff like, my mom got up early one day and went for a walk and he was desperate to find her. She hadn't gone far. Another time she actually got in the car and started to drive and he had to follow behind her. She drove to the place where my dad had his business before he retired which was about 7 miles away. She spent time looking for all sorts of pets that were long dead and my dad helped her look, which is considered the way to do things rather than what I did when I said she was my mom. I was furious about the wandering but I couldn't show it since I didn't want to be barred from visiting.

I'm telling this story because it's quite possible that Gene's wife being so much younger than him thought she could look after him by herself without ever considering that she herself could get sick enough to leave him vulnerable. My dad was younger than my mom, too, but only by 6 years.

I truly believe Gene's wife was trying to protect him from public scrutiny and because they'd lived there for so long felt comfortable in the environment. It's difficult for me to lay blame against any relative that may have tried to visit. It's also possible that Gene may have exhibited the types of behaviors that can be embarrassing for the caregiver or engage in violent behaviors. I think what happened here is very, very sad. But it goes to show that there should always be a support system for caregivers, whether family or professionals. It's one of the hardest jobs in the world.

 

[Joe Friday]

I don't have the want to, nor do I feel the public is entitled to know that information. I'm not sure it's relevant at this point. Just my opinion.

LE must still think establishing a timeline pertaining to when BA may have died is important and relevant if they are still investigating and awaiting cell phone records and the result of the dogs autopsy. If it wasn't relevant why go to the trouble of investigating at all?

What information LE releases to the public that is up to them. LE didn't need to go into details at the presser when BA's last outgoing communications was among other things but they did. Are you also saying LE didn't need to release that information to the public as well?