Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #3 *ARREST*

[Legally Bland]

Γλυκά Νερά: Ο Μπάμπης ήταν αποφασισμένος να παίξει μέχρι τέλους τον ρόλο του τεθλιμμένου συζύγου
I don't have time to translate the article right now, because I'm studying for exams. However, it includes a statement from a criminologist/police profiler/neuropsychologist, who, among others, describes the dynamics in B and C's relationship.
Right now there's a press conference on TV regarding the case. If anyone fluent in Greek is interested, here's the link:
Δείτε live- Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Οι επίσημες ανακοινώσεις της Αστυνομίας

I can't help with a translation, but it's here for ease:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=315948430030701

 

[modesty blaise]

This was obvious and horrible.

 

[tayaway]

I suspect the "inconclusive" DNA under C's fingertips will turn out to belong to B but was deliberately kept vague IMO

There was no DNA found under C's fingernails. ETA: Please see previous discussion and links about this - or simply google 'Caroline Crouch DNA fingernails' and you'll get news about how there was no DNA found.

 

[MsBetsy]

One thing I learned from my relationship with a narcissist, they tell outrageous lies and excuses as if they are believable. They don't seem to comprehend how obvious their lies are, even when confronted they will add another excuse.
The one I knew was from a very wealthy family with parents who both neglected and overindulged him, I guess the overindulgence is to make up for the neglect? They bailed him out and hired the best lawyers so there was never a record or consequence for his bad decisions. Not until drugs killed him, anyway, and even then, the parents blamed others.
Everyone has a reason for who they are, people sometimes struggle with relationships as a result of growing up in unhealthy environments lacking connection, love and nurturing and without being taught and grounded in ethics.
Jmo from knowing a narcissist intimately and reading a lot about narcissism during our relationship.
I'm not saying this is what happened in this case, it's only an observation.

Yes, I'm very familiar. I was married to one. I'm not sure he was neglected but was definitely overindulged. Surprisingly he wasn't a liar, but was intelligent, graduated at the top of his class from RPI, was conceited, controlling, and a perfectionist who thought he was above everyone else.

I think an underlying characteristic in people like Babis is insecurity. It would have been a big blow to his ego if it was C who called him stupid. It probably infuriated him when she wouldn't "listen." Any relationship she had with anybody else he probably saw as a threat.

In the beginning Caroline was probably flattered by all his attention. I don't think she felt coerced into marrying him, she was likely deeply in love. Like Babis said at her funeral, he was lucky to be loved by her. Yet he never mentioned that he loved Caroline.

Sometimes it takes awhile to notice the red flags, no matter how old you are. It was probably after they were married that she realized he was abusive.

I'm wondering if she really did share some of these things with the hypnotherapist. She did make a statement claiming she didn't reveal anything from Caroline's "sessions."

Maybe after talking to LE they asked her not to reveal certain details. Maybe she was only repeating what B had told her about Caroline.

I'm still confused about that whole thing. She was accused of not having a license or breaching confidentiality, yet we've heard nothing about her being found guilty of any charges. I missed a lot of posts since yesterday but I haven't read any recent statements by LE about her part in the investigation. In the beginning they said she gave them "crucial" information.

IMO

 

[Kemug]

Sputnik News June 18: This piece is about the testimony of the fake psychologist shortly before B's arrest. It's a poor translation and I might be messing it up, but here's what I got from it anyway:

EM's observation of the family: B did not allow C to attend sessions alone. They were an unhappy couple. The baby was small for her age (well, ya, preemie), and was sad. B asked EM at one point to say something positive about him publicly.

EM has done a complete turnaround, and I feel I owe her an apology now that we understand more.

 

[tayaway]

EM has done a complete turnaround, and I feel I owe her an apology now that we understand more.

I am assuming that LE gave EM a script to keep B's ego inflated, to help delay his suspicions of being found out, while they dealt with tech issues.

 

[everybodhi]

Sorry I shouldn't laugh but.... Hahaha It's too much

Sometimes harsh realities need a little comic relief.
This case is incredibly sad, he groomed her as a girl, taking her childhood, and then when she grew into a full fledged woman and mother exercising her autonomy, he took her very life.
And killed her dog out of spite, because of the dogs loyalty to her. jmo
He could have just let her go and found another girl to groom, but he couldn't let go of his power and dominance over her. jmo

 

[Kemug]

I think we heard earlier that Caroline's mother is aged 50. That's not too old to raise a child, and she will no doubt have friends and neighbours ready to help this poor little family with both the little girl and the aging grandfather.

 

[MsBetsy]

Now I read in Greek Reporter his friends are shocked. He was known as.... GENTLEMAN

Psychopaths, (or people with personally disorders with narcissistic traits,) can be very charismatic and charming.

I'm not saying that's what he is, but it's possible, based on everything we've heard about him. Jmo

 

[tayaway]

Yes, I'm very familiar. I was married to one. I'm not sure he was neglected but was definitely overindulged. Surprisingly he wasn't a liar, but was intelligent, graduated at the top of his class from RPI, was conceited, controlling, and a perfectionist who thought he was above everyone else.

I think an underlying characteristic in people like Babis is insecurity. It would have been a big blow to his ego if it was C who called him stupid. It probably infuriated him when she wouldn't "listen." Any relationship she had with anybody else he probably saw as a threat.

In the beginning Caroline was probably flattered by all his attention. I don't think she felt coerced into marrying him, she was likely deeply in love. Like Babis said at her funeral, he was lucky to be loved by her. Yet he never mentioned that he loved Caroline.

Sometimes it takes awhile to notice the red flags, no matter how old you are. It was probably after they were married that she realized he was abusive.

I'm wondering if she really did share some of these things with the hypnotherapist. She did make a statement claiming she didn't reveal anything from Caroline's "sessions."

Maybe after talking to LE they asked her not to reveal certain details. Maybe she was only repeating what B had told her about Caroline.

I'm still confused about that whole thing. She was accused of not having a license or breaching confidentiality, yet we've heard nothing about her being found guilty of any charges. I missed a lot of posts since yesterday but I haven't read any recent statements by LE about her part in the investigation. In the beginning they said she gave them "crucial" information.

IMO

I too, can speak from experience, both from growing up with an Nparent, and allowing myself to get sucked into a 'fairytale' relationship with an N male. They are empty vessels that need constant filling from sources. You, even if you are their bloody child, are the enemy. There is no winning against them, as yes, every single day with an N is a battle.

Remembering back, I'll give this example about how often my ex prince charming lied and the trivial crap he'd lie about. I communicated with his mother via phone and email and so we discussed this one tiny thing he'd lied about and then we casually brought it up one day at her place. He said 1) you two talk??? 2) you talked about that??? 3) he didn't know why he lied about stupid crap. That, unsurprisingly, was a lie, for he knew exactly why!

...back to the case... Maybe EM cooperated with LE and did the public interviews about the 'fairytale' couple in exchange for immunity for impersonating a professional?

 

[tayaway]

One thing I learned from my relationship with a narcissist, they tell outrageous lies and excuses as if they are believable. They don't seem to comprehend how obvious their lies are, even when confronted they will add another excuse.
The one I knew was from a very wealthy family with parents who both neglected and overindulged him, I guess the overindulgence is to make up for the neglect? They bailed him out and hired the best lawyers so there was never a record or consequence for his bad decisions. Not until drugs killed him, anyway, and even then, the parents blamed others.
Everyone has a reason for who they are, people sometimes struggle with relationships as a result of growing up in unhealthy environments lacking connection, love and nurturing and without being taught and grounded in ethics.
Jmo from knowing a narcissist intimately and reading a lot about narcissism during our relationship.
I'm not saying this is what happened in this case, it's only an observation.

They say narcs are made, and from what you've written, yours appears to have had parents who molded much of that personality. Anyway, sorry you've been through it too.

 

[Kemug]

My narcissist "friend", who thankfully now lives in a different country, had all sorts of reasons for why she didn't get on with any of her family. For example, her sister never liked her because, quote: "I was the beautiful one."!! Her ex-husband and ex-friends are a whole other story.

 

[everybodhi]

They say narcs are made, and from what you've written, yours appears to have had parents who molded much of that personality. Anyway, sorry you've been through it too.

Thank you and back at you.
My sympathies to everyone who has ever loved a narcissist.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I won't go into details but I've been there too.

Yes, I'm very familiar. I was married to one.

 

[tayaway]

Men's House:

Opinion piece on the murder of C's dog and predicting B's prison sentence.

 

[MsBetsy]

I too, can speak from experience, both from growing up with an Nparent, and allowing myself to get sucked into a 'fairytale' relationship with an N male. They are empty vessels that need constant filling from sources. You, even if you are their bloody child, are the enemy. There is no winning against them, as yes, every single day with an N is a battle.

Remembering back, I'll give this example about how often my ex prince charming lied and the trivial crap he'd lie about. I communicated with his mother via phone and email and so we discussed this one tiny thing he'd lied about and then we casually brought it up one day at her place. He said 1) you two talk??? 2) you talked about that??? 3) he didn't know why he lied about stupid crap. That, unsurprisingly, was a lie, for he knew exactly why!

...back to the case... Maybe EM cooperated with LE and did the public interviews about the 'fairytale' couple in exchange for immunity for impersonating a professional?

I can relate. Parents like that can actually be jealous of their own children, just like any other narcissist. If they feel someone is smarter, has a better personality, etc they will lash out or criticize them. I also had an ex who was a liar. I could always tell when he was lying from the way he drew out the word "No," with a slight smile on his face. Then they turn it around and put the focus on you to distract from the original point of the conversation.

About the therapist, I'm not sure if she intentionally impersonated a professional. In the first thread there's a picture of her office on FB and she has lots of certificates on the wall. Training in hypnotherapy doesn't always require years of training but it can require a certain amount of hours per year to stay certified. Maybe she let it lapse.

Also, the list of services by her office includes psychologist, but it may be that there is a psychologist there. Some therapists can legally practice under a licensed psychologist's supervision. Just a thought I had.

Whatever the case, it doesn't appear that there have been any consequences for her actions. It seemed to have all started by psychologists who were enraged by her breach in confidentiality.
Imo

 

[Legally Bland]

With a strong police escort, a few minutes before five in the afternoon in Evelpidon, the 32-year-old confessed murderer of Caroline, Babis Anagnostopoulos, joined. Cool, with his head held high and speechless, wearing a white bulletproof vest and mask, he is now being taken to the prosecutor's office for execution of the warrant against him and then is expected to go to the investigator from whom he will ask - and receive - within the prescribed time to apologize for the two crimes and the two misdemeanors that he is charged with.

Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Στην Ευελπίδων ο 32χρονος πιλότος

[google]

 

[MsBetsy]

Exactly.

My thinking is that now their daughter has been murdered, they might want to go for custody of their granddaughter.

I really hope there is not a big custody battle between the two families. Ultimately it will be up to a family court judge to decide, or whatever it's called in Greece. Imo

 

[Skigh]

I really hope there is not a big custody battle between the two families. Ultimately it will be up to a family court judge to decide, or whatever it's called in Greece. Imo

As I said before,I cannot see his parents inflicted any more anguish on Caroline's family. B. does not deserve to see his daughter ever again.

 

[Skigh]

Caroline Crouch murder: Husband 'covered up murder so he could raise daughter' | Daily Mail Online