ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[ILOKAL]

I wish they would release DeOrr Sr's 911 call, I would like to know how long of a call it was, the questions that the operator asked, DeOrr Sr's answers.

Has Jessica's 911 call been released? I don't remember.

 

[kammiemc]

kammie you make a lot of sense. If Sheriff was suspicious that he was not getting the true story from the 'witnesses' or believed that their version of events simply did not make sense, it would explain a lot of his statements and a lot of what has transpired since July 10.

They are 'good', 'solid', 'cooperative', 'highly unlikely' to be an abduction, '99%' sure the child was there, 'anything' is possible, '100% sure he is not in the water', having FBI look at some 'physical and behavioral evidence'. It could lead one to believe that he has been patiently waiting for affirmation of what he thinks happened, while not letting on to what his suspicions are.

But, it could be that after his exhaustive efforts he needed another set of eyes to review his investigation and some forensic work done so as to leave no stone unturned.

I believe the parents and also that an unknown person took this child and his boots. I refuse to believe that his parents know what happened to him and are lying.

Just my opinion.

You could be very right. I am not sure if that, for me, would help explain what the sheriff meant when he said, that "in this case, the the FBI report will be critical" if it was just being done for the sake of review and so would presumably end in being inconclusive if he the sheriff had his investigation right and the FBI saw no holes in it.
But what do I know?!
I don't think the parents are lying either. I mean, I don't know any more than anyone else (anything is possible), and I certainly don't think they intentionally harmed the toddler (that I refuse to believe, even though that is mostly just based on emotion because I don't like that idea and just can't imagine why on earth they would) but that doesn't necessarily mean that the sheriff didn't have reason to believe that something at that campsite wasn't adding up. We are not privy to what that was. And there were four adults there, not just the parents.
But, like I have said, I would not be in utter disbelief if it turns out that a weirdo (or a stealthy lion) jumped in a took him.


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[wondering25]

Not even slightly a challenge, but just because I have no idea, did the sheriff ever say what time the parents say they left IF, or was it just left at an arrival time at the campsite? A 5PM departure would make sense to me. (Even that has been thought to be quite late to some people here who camp.) I totally agree that since the timeline was not originally known (or at least not shared with us) to start Thurs night, we still might know everything about that night.

ETA: I can say for sure we don't know everything!!! We hardly know anything!

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IMO, they dont want the public's help. They (LE) dont want to tell anyone anything and expect people to blindly call in hints without giving anyone any idea what they are looking for. LE made a huge mistake, imo by virtually ruling out everything. I think the investigation was botched from the beginning. FBI should have been there and it took LE almost 2 hours to get to the site after the 911 call. COLD CASE JMO

Anything i write is just my opinion.

 

[kammiemc]

IMO, they dont want the public's help. They (LE) dont want to tell anyone anything and expect people to blindly call in hints without giving anyone any idea what they are looking for. LE made a huge mistake, imo by virtually ruling out everything. I think the investigation was botched from the beginning. FBI should have been there and it took LE almost 2 hours to get to the site after the 911 call. COLD CASE JMO

Anything i write is just my opinion.

I agree it doesn't seem like the sheriff, and now the FBI, want (or need) the public's help. That could lead one to think that maybe that's because they know things the public doesn't. But that's just one possibility.

Out of curiosity, what do you think was botched about the investigation, barring the obvious that the little toddler hasn't been found.
Do you mean because it seems like they were looking on the mountain instead for an abductor? Or because it took them a long time to get to the campsite? It seems like they only ruled out mtn lion/drowning/wandering as likely scenarios after the intensive search.
What are some things, from your POV that they could have done better?


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[Cardinal47]

There are three investigations going on. The Sheriffs Dept, the FBI and also Idaho Falls police department.

Hummm. That kind of says to me they might have suspecions but no sure path.

 

[Rayemonde]

Did it really take LE 2 hours to get there?? Where did you hear that?

The sketch of the staring man still hasn't been released... The PI said that LE were doing one.

 

[Cardinal47]

One more point I would like to make. The sheriff did an all out search and can you imagine what would be said if he hadn't.

But all of a sudden it was over.

Now no searching at all and the sheriff is pretty clear on that.

Recently a search was being organized and approved by the sheriff with the stipulation of not before Oct 1.

A ******** account was established to cover expenses of specialists being flown in. All of a sudden the sheriff says NO.

How come?

As far as I know no search groups like TES or Amber's Search and Rescue have been asked.

How come?

 

[ILOKAL]

I agree it doesn't seem like the sheriff, and now the FBI, want (or need) the public's help. That could lead one to think that maybe that's because they know things the public doesn't. But that's just one possibility.

Out of curiosity, what do you think was botched about the investigation, barring the obvious that the little toddler hasn't been found.
Do you mean because it seems like they were looking on the mountain instead for an abductor? Or because it took them a long time to get to the campsite? It seems like they only ruled out mtn lion/drowning/wandering as likely scenarios after the intensive search.
What are some things, from your POV that they could have done better?


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This is what I questioned yesterday. Ten days (on July 20th) after little Deorr disappeared and (presumably) after the extensive searches were done, the sheriff said he couldn't rule anything out. Yet, on Aug 2nd (there might be an earlier date) he basically said he ruled EVERYTHING out and was taking the case in a different direction.

I forgot to add . . . . How could he two weeks later rule everything out when no further searching had been done? It would have had to take more searches, IMO, to rule out lost in the woods and taken by animals to have made that change in his opinion.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

But didn't the sheriff say in an interview that he knew about the staring man? Didn't he respond by saying something about not having the time (resources?) to run down every person who ever looked at a child? I'm not quoting the sheriff or even paraphrasing but I believe this is the gist of his comment. Do we know when he received that information and who provided it to him? He seemed to brush IT off in the same manner as he brushed off any of the other possibilities. IMO

He did, but that was after the PI said Jessica had told him about it. JM, DK, nor LE ever mentioned it until the PI began volunteering his services to the family.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Anyone know if tim miller has been asked to help here . This seems like something right up his alley for what he does..

I doubt he would get involved in this mess!

 

[wondering25]

I agree it doesn't seem like the sheriff, and now the FBI, want (or need) the public's help. That could lead one to think that maybe that's because they know things the public doesn't. But that's just one possibility.

Out of curiosity, what do you think was botched about the investigation, barring the obvious that the little toddler hasn't been found.
Do you mean because it seems like they were looking on the mountain instead for an abductor? Or because it took them a long time to get to the campsite? It seems like they only ruled out mtn lion/drowning/wandering as likely scenarios after the intensive search.
What are some things, from your POV that they could have done better?


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FBI should have been there after day 1. Bowerman said something to the effect that they should have found the baby after the first day if he had wandered. We have seen posters put highway cam photos here.. did the FBI review cam photos? Did Bowerman? Was there any , ANY vehicle that stood out? Early on a family member said look for a black truck or blue chevy.. at that point why no amber alert? Possible vehicle may have been sighted. i heard several times that a lot of money was spent on this case and the local LE was running out of money ( paraphrasing). That alone should have mandated calling in the FBI. There should have been a LOT more public awareness promoted by everyone..Social media doesnt always solve cases.. but it cant hurt.. SM was treated as the enemy.. it turned people off. LE ruled out almost everything..that was stupid, imo. It also makes zero sense. i dont think the sheriff is holding anything close to the vest. i think he is clueless. Civilian searches have been discouraged...why? He may have a secret idea.. but no evidence.. JMO

Everything i write is just my opinion.

 

[Cardinal47]

Tim Miller is once stung twice shy after giving his all to the search for Caylee Anthony.

That one was really a circus for Tim.

His organization receives hundreds of requests for his help.

He is only one man with a lost daughter. He cant do it all.

"No man is an island"!

 

[desert-blue]

If the FBI is investigating this as an abduction, that would certainly make the sheriff's previous statements ruling out abduction seem foolish and premature. Presumably, while he may not know every detail of the FBI's investigation, I would think the sheriff would know the general direction it is taking. Yet, he still maintains there is little to no chance that Deorr was abducted. Therefore, it's my opinion that the FBI is not investigating his disappearance as an abduction (at least a total stranger abduction).

About the sheriff. When I first listened to his interview (with NE), I had serious doubts. When he chuckled and said he didn't know if Leadore had any cameras (I'm paraphrasing here), I cringed. He also said he didn't know if the Stage Stop had a camera. Either he was lying or incompetent. If he truly had not looked into whether there were any cameras in Leadore, he was not doing his job (now maybe he had a deputy look into it, but still he is the head honcho and should know). If he (or his department) had looked into it, he would be well aware of the answer to that question (yes or no) and he chose to lie, saying he did not know. I think he is reluctant to release much of anything to do with this case, even lying a little bit to keep things under wraps. I am hopeful that he is competent and knows a lot more than what he saying. Otherwise, I am afraid this will end up as a cold case, unless the FBI has been able to dig deeper. MOO.

 

[Rayemonde]

I forgot to add . . . . How could he two weeks later rule everything outour no further searching had been done? It would have had to take more searches, IMO, to rule out lost in the woods and taken by animals to have made that change in his opinion.

Maybe they think that after two weeks, there would probably not be anything left to find. A toddler is so small, they knew that wolves and bears and other animals were in the area (in the interview the Sheriff said that wolves and bears passed through the campsite as they were searching), and there probably isn't anything at all left of Deorr if he died in the woods.
And there was certainly a 0% chance of finding him *alive* in the woods after two weeks. Maybe they didn't think there was any point in going on searching forever, searching the same area over and over and over again, and using up all of their time and money looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

[kammiemc]

FBI should have been there after day 1. Bowerman said something to the effect that they should have found the baby after the first day if he had wandered. We have seen posters put highway cam photos here.. did the FBI review cam photos? Did Bowerman? Was there any , ANY vehicle that stood out? Early on a family member said look for a black truck or blue chevy.. at that point why no amber alert? Possible vehicle may have been sighted. i heard several times that a lot of money was spent on this case and the local LE was running out of money ( paraphrasing). That alone should have mandated calling in the FBI. There should have been a LOT more public awareness promoted by everyone..Social media doesnt always solve cases.. but it cant hurt.. SM was treated as the enemy.. it turned people off. LE ruled out almost everything..that was stupid, imo. It also makes zero sense. i dont think the sheriff is holding anything close to the vest. i think he is clueless. Civilian searches have been discouraged...why? He may have a secret idea.. but no evidence.. JMO

Everything i write is just my opinion.

I normally agree with you, but my thoughts/guesses/assumptions are really different on this one.

What you are saying would also require that FBI is clueless and incompetent. If they believed there was a chance of abduction, and probably even if not, I am sure they would review any surveillance available to them because I assume they are smart like that. Or at least of average intelligence.

The LE and the FBI are not going crazy screaming out abduction, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about that, or not doing their jobs. If they know that something happened to the toddler other than stranger abduction, encouraging searches, putting out alerts, etc., now THAT would be stupid.



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[kammiemc]

Maybe they think that after two weeks, there would probably not be anything left to find. A toddler is so small, they knew that wolves and bears and other animals were in the area (in the interview the Sheriff said that wolves and bears passed through the campsite as they were searching), and there probably isn't anything at all left of Deorr if he died in the woods.
And there was certainly a 0% chance of finding him *alive* in the woods after two weeks. Maybe they didn't think there was any point in going on searching forever, searching the same area over and over and over again, and using up all of their time and money looking for a needle in a haystack.

You bring up an interesting point. As tragic and difficult as it must be, I imagine that there is a time that every official search is eventually called off. (When absolutely nothing can be found.) But I have no idea how long they normally go on. Out of curiosity I will try to check it out. Later!


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[kammiemc]

If the FBI is investigating this as an abduction, that would certainly make the sheriff's previous statements ruling out abduction seem foolish and premature. Presumably, while he may not know every detail of the FBI's investigation, I would think the sheriff would know the general direction it is taking. Yet, he still maintains there is little to no chance that Deorr was abducted. Therefore, it's my opinion that the FBI is not investigating his disappearance as an abduction (at least a total stranger abduction).

About the sheriff. When I first listened to his interview (with NE), I had serious doubts. When he chuckled and said he didn't know if Leadore had any cameras (I'm paraphrasing here), I cringed. He also said he didn't know if the Stage Stop had a camera. Either he was lying or incompetent. If he truly had not looked into whether there were any cameras in Leadore, he was not doing his job (now maybe he had a deputy look into it, but still he is the head honcho and should know). If he (or his department) had looked into it, he would be well aware of the answer to that question (yes or no) and he chose to lie, saying he did not know. I think he is reluctant to release much of anything to do with this case, even lying a little bit to keep things under wraps. I am hopeful that he is competent and knows a lot more than what he saying. Otherwise, I am afraid this will end up as a cold case, unless the FBI has been able to dig deeper. MOO.

^^^^^^This makes sense!


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[TheTruthWillOut]

TheTruthWillOut, Here is another image for you. This version of the map is tilted so that south is at the top and north is at the bottom. The pink marker is the location of the campsite. You can see that the elevation is higher on the East side of the reservoir, which is the left side in this version of the map. The photographer in your 4th picture above was standing on the lower part of that ridge.

View attachment 81901

Hi Claire I'm back. I agree with the image here that that is the campground and is what I've believed all along until I looked at the Nate Eaton video again. I'll just ask one question about the image below and hopefully move on to more important things.

If I was to walk through the long grass/grassy bank behind Nate, where would I end up?

Thanks.

 

[desert-blue]

Hi Claire I'm back. I agree with the image here that that is the campground and is what I've believed all along until I looked at the Nate Eaton video again. I'll just ask one question about the image below and hopefully move on to more important things.

If I was to walk through the long grass/grassy bank behind Nate, where would I end up?

Thanks.

I'm not Claire, but I think you'd end up in the creek.

 

[desert-blue]

Maybe they think that after two weeks, there would probably not be anything left to find. A toddler is so small, they knew that wolves and bears and other animals were in the area (in the interview the Sheriff said that wolves and bears passed through the campsite as they were searching), and there probably isn't anything at all left of Deorr if he died in the woods.
And there was certainly a 0% chance of finding him *alive* in the woods after two weeks. Maybe they didn't think there was any point in going on searching forever, searching the same area over and over and over again, and using up all of their time and money looking for a needle in a haystack.

It seems like if foul play was/is suspected, wouldn't finding the body be of high priority? (Theoretical.... of course I hope Deorr is not deceased and I hope foul play was not involved). Isn't it more difficult to prosecute without a body (and associated evidence) ever being found? I would think LE would very much want to find the body if there is any possibility of criminal activity*. If LE thinks he perished in the woods and/or was attacked by an animal, I can maybe see holding out in hopes that a hunter or hiker might find him (or his possessions). If his disappearance was just a tragic accident, spending a lot of time, money and resources (especially this late in the game) would probably not make a ton of sense. It's rather depressing, though. I wish he would be found, regardless, even if the case is never truly "solved," just for his own sake. :-(

*this might mean that Deorr has been taken from the area, though, and could also be a reason to stop searching up there...

MOO.