ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[Cardinal47]

Gosh I can't believe that soon it will be three months. Seems like a lifetime.

I think we have covered about everything. Sigh..no DeOrr.

My hopes are now with the hunters. I hope there are a lot of them and they keep their eyes open for anything, everywhere.

MOO

 

[Mickshawn]

Gosh I can't believe that soon it will be three months. Seems like a lifetime.

I think we have covered about everything. Sigh..no DeOrr.

My hopes are now with the hunters. I hope there are a lot of them and they keep their eyes open for anything, everywhere.

MOO

I know...where could that sweet little baby be? It's so heartbreaking. I have no idea how the parents are even functioning.

 

[Dee10]

It seems like there was no reason given by the four in the initial hours to suggest a trigger to cause an Amber Alert or it didn't fit the criteria. Why would the FBI need to be called in, when the Sheriff acted appropriately in regard to the non Amber Alert? Originally DeOrr was reported missing in the wilderness. :facepalm:

 

[wondering25]

The only bird KNOWN to pick up a baby is a STORK!

 

[ILOKAL]

It seems like there was no reason given by the four in the initial hours to suggest a trigger to cause an Amber Alert or it didn't fit the criteria. Why would the FBI need to be called in, when the Sheriff acted appropriately in regard to the non Amber Alert? Originally DeOrr was reported missing in the wilderness. :facepalm:

The sheriff said he had received criticism from SM for not requesting an Amber Alert be issued. Maybe he wanted the FBI's opinion on an abduction to see if that's the direction the case should take. Just speculating (again) as to the primary purpose for requesting assistance from the FBI.

 

[haven71]

It seems like there was no reason given by the four in the initial hours to suggest a trigger to cause an Amber Alert or it didn't fit the criteria. Why would the FBI need to be called in, when the Sheriff acted appropriately in regard to the non Amber Alert? Originally DeOrr was reported missing in the wilderness. :facepalm:

IIRC they were called in to analyze evidence and for behavioral analysis. Their knowledge, experience, and expertise...the FBI have incredible resources.

 

[Mountaingazer]

The only bird KNOWN to pick up a baby is a STORK!

Link please [emoji6]

 

[Dee10]

IIRC they were called in to analyze evidence and for behavioral analysis. Their knowledge, experience, and expertise...the FBI have incredible resources.

Exactly what the Sheriff stated and who would that behavioral analysis be tageted for? Again, the I believe the Sheriff has told us all along where the evidence or lack of is leading.

Quotes from July 20[SUP]th[/SUP] - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

What happened during the 20 to 45 minutes the child was alone is a mystery to authorities, said Bowerman, who noted "all possibilities" are being investigated.

"I don't look at them as suspects at this point in time," the sheriff noted.


Quotes from July 21[SUP]st[/SUP] – http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/ Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.

 

[Mickshawn]

The only bird KNOWN to pick up a baby is a STORK!

Link, please (hah hah...just kidding)

 

[haven71]

Off the FAQs of the fbi.gov website:

If a child is missing and possibly kidnapped, but no interstate transportation is known, will the FBI begin an investigation?
Yes. The FBI will initiate a kidnapping investigation involving a missing child “of tender years,” even though there is no known interstate aspect. “Tender years” is generally defined as a child 12 years or younger. The FBI will monitor other kidnapping situations when there is no evidence of interstate travel, and it offers assistance from various entities including the FBI Laboratory.



I don't recall reading that the FBI "initiated" a kidnapping investigation. I remember hearing that the FBI was "called in to assist" local law enforcement. Is that right, does anyone have an exact statement from LE?

They both sound a little different but I think they're saying the same thing. I imagine LE contacted the FBI to assist...and that's when the FBI "initiated" a kidnapping investigation.

I don't know. Sheriff Bowerman was/is 99 percent sure an abduction did not take place. Even that one percent had to spur him on to some further investigation which his department was perhaps ill-equipped for in depth and scope. Like any normal parent with a missing child, I would sure as h*ll want that one percent chance to be thoroughly investigated.

 

[Dee10]

The sheriff said he had received criticism from SM for not requesting an Amber Alert be issued. Maybe he wanted the FBI's opinion on an abduction to see if that's the direction the case should take. Just speculating (again) as to the primary purpose for requesting assistance from the FBI.

I couldn't find the sheriff complained about criticism, I found this "An amber alert has not been issued, as Bowerman says the case does not fit the criteria needed." http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/ida...ve-days-after-wandering-away-campsite-n392776

 

[EllieBee]

Exactly what the Sheriff stated and who would that behavioral analysis be tageted for? Again, the I believe the Sheriff has told us all along where the evidence or lack of is leading.

Quotes from July 20[SUP]th[/SUP] - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

What happened during the 20 to 45 minutes the child was alone is a mystery to authorities, said Bowerman, who noted "all possibilities" are being investigated.

"I don't look at them as suspects at this point in time," the sheriff noted.


Quotes from July 21[SUP]st[/SUP] – http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/ Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.

Hmmm. 20-45 mins does not sound like the 5-10 mins we were fed at the beginning.

It's kind of a big deal, really.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Hmmm. 20-45 mins does not sound like the 5-10 mins we were fed at the beginning.

It's kind of a big deal, really.

I thought the same thing when I just read that. Maybe it's time to begin at the beginning and review interviews and statements anew.... Let's start with the Sheriff's words?

 

[kammiemc]

Off the FAQs of the fbi.gov website:

If a child is missing and possibly kidnapped, but no interstate transportation is known, will the FBI begin an investigation?
Yes. The FBI will initiate a kidnapping investigation involving a missing child “of tender years,” even though there is no known interstate aspect. “Tender years” is generally defined as a child 12 years or younger. The FBI will monitor other kidnapping situations when there is no evidence of interstate travel, and it offers assistance from various entities including the FBI Laboratory.



I don't recall reading that the FBI "initiated" a kidnapping investigation. I remember hearing that the FBI was "called in to assist" local law enforcement. Is that right, does anyone have an exact statement from LE?

They both sound a little different but I think they're saying the same thing. I imagine LE contacted the FBI to assist...and that's when the FBI "initiated" a kidnapping investigation.

I don't know. Sheriff Bowerman was/is 99 percent sure an abduction did not take place. Even that one percent had to spur him on to some further investigation which his department was perhaps ill-equipped for in depth and scope. Like any normal parent with a missing child, I would sure as h*ll want that one percent chance to be thoroughly investigated.

It seems the FBI would investigate any possible crime against the toddler, including kidnapping, right? I would think, just like any investigation, they would work from the inside out, likely starting with POI's--unless there was an indication of abduction, which we know there was not.
I got the impression the FBI were sent in when the case took a new direction (presumably from the child not having been located on the mountain plus evidence coming in) and POI's were named. I have not heard or read anywhere that the FBI were brought in to prove or disprove an abduction scenario. I think both local LE and the FBI just want to get to the truth in a case where things don't add up. I kind of doubt that the sheriff is so incredibly unprofessional and self-centered that big decisions in how the investigation is handled would be primarily driven by something like him wanting to quash criticism of him not issuing an AA in an anon SM post--or even 10.


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[kammiemc]

I couldn't find the sheriff complained about criticism, I found this "An amber alert has not been issued, as Bowerman says the case does not fit the criteria needed." http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/ida...ve-days-after-wandering-away-campsite-n392776

I think he mentioned some post criticizing his decision to not issue an AA in the article where LE was talking about the helpfulness/unhelpfulness of SM to an investigation. That was an example of unhelpful.
He didn't indicate any distress from the criticism that would lead me to believe that it could surpass finding out what happened to the toddler as a primary motivator for calling in the FBI. IMO.



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[Yvettea]

Hmmm. 20-45 mins does not sound like the 5-10 mins we were fed at the beginning.

It's kind of a big deal, really.

This is huge, as in they forgot their child. As in they lost their child. To lose sight and control of a 2 1/2 year-old for this length of time would be catastrophic, I'm sorry to say.

 

[haven71]

It seems the FBI would investigate any possible crime against the toddler, including kidnapping, right? I would think, just like any investigation, they would work from the inside out, likely starting with POI's--unless there was an indication of abduction, which we know there was not.
I got the impression the FBI were sent in when the case took a new direction (presumably from the child not having been located on the mountain plus evidence coming in) and POI's were named. I have not heard or read anywhere that the FBI were brought in to prove or disprove an abduction scenario. I think both local LE and the FBI just want to get to the truth in a case where things don't add up. I kind of doubt that the sheriff is so incredibly unprofessional and self-centered that big decisions in how the investigation is handled would be primarily driven by something like him wanting to quash criticism of him not issuing an AA in an anon SM post--or even 10.


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"If a child is missing and possibly kidnapped..." I used that quote because it's all I could find on the rbi.gov page which mentioned missing children, abducted or not. Either way you shake it, he might've been abducted. So of course they'd be looking into that. Deorr is missing, and may or may not have been abducted...so he falls under the umbrella of FBI investigation as well. I am certain they are looking at every aspect very closely. They are certainly entertaining every possibility of any potential crime that may have been committed.

I didn't say the sheriff's main motive for calling in the FBI was self-serving or self-preservation. I do think the fact that he did enlist their help that, by default, he is retaining his credibility and reputation because he wants all bases covered. Period.

 

[kammiemc]

"If a child is missing and possibly kidnapped..." I used that quote because it's all I could find on the rbi.gov page which mentioned missing children, abducted or not. Either way you shake it, he might've been abducted. So of course they'd be looking into that. Deorr is missing, and may or may not have been abducted...so he falls under the umbrella of FBI investigation as well. I am certain they are looking at every aspect very closely. They are certainly entertaining every possibility of any potential crime that may have been committed.

I didn't say the sheriff's main motive for calling in the FBI was self-serving or self-preservation. I do think the fact that he did enlist their help that, by default, he is retaining his credibility and reputation because he wants all bases covered. Period.

I knew that's what you were saying! [emoji4] and I agree.


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[neesaki]

"If a child is missing and possibly kidnapped..." I used that quote because it's all I could find on the rbi.gov page which mentioned missing children, abducted or not. Either way you shake it, he might've been abducted. So of course they'd be looking into that. Deorr is missing, and may or may not have been abducted...so he falls under the umbrella of FBI investigation as well. I am certain they are looking at every aspect very closely. They are certainly entertaining every possibility of any potential crime that may have been committed.

I didn't say the sheriff's main motive for calling in the FBI was self-serving or self-preservation. I do think the fact that he did enlist their help that, by default, he is retaining his credibility and reputation because he wants all bases covered. Period.

I think it raises some questions for me that the FBI has baby Lisa Irwin listed as a kidnapped / missing person in spite of the questionable actions of her parents (specifically the mother) in Lisa's case. Yet they do not have little Deorr listed at all. How are the cases that much different? Well, other than little Deorr vanished in a wilderness area. Still...
There has to be something to that, no? Or am I reading something into it that isn't there? :dunno:

 

[Yvettea]

I think it raises some questions for me that the FBI has baby Lisa Irwin listed as a kidnapped / missing person in spite of the questionable actions of her parents (specifically the mother) in Lisa's case. Yet they do not have little Deorr listed at all. How are the cases that much different? Well, other than little Deorr vanished in a wilderness area. Still...
There has to be something to that, no? Or am I reading something into it that isn't there? :dunno:

He was able to walk. Wasn't Lisa much younger?