ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[kammiemc]

Here is an article from one month after DeOrr went missing that states that the FBI had been assisting local LE over that month.

I noticed it because I am still unclear as to exactly when the FBI was brought in. (Even though IMO I don't know that there are any implications as to that timing.)

For some reason I am thinking the FBI might have been involved sooner than the day it was publicly reported. I know that has been a focus of discussion, so just sharing something I know at least I didn't notice before.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/onemonth-mark-of-the-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34638970


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[ILOKAL]

Here is an article from one month after DeOrr went missing that states that the FBI had been assisting local LE over that month.

I noticed it because I am still unclear as to exactly when the FBI was brought in. (Even though IMO I don't know that there are any implications as to that timing.)

For some reason I am thinking the FBI might have been involved sooner than the day it was publicly reported. I know that has been a focus of discussion, so just sharing something I know at least I didn't notice before.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/onemonth-mark-of-the-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34638970

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What was the date of the article and or interview when the sheriff announced he had requested the assistance of the FBI?

I don't think the article you linked indicates the FBI had been assisting local LE for the entire first month of Deorr's disappearance.

 

[kammiemc]

I remember reading at one time that DeOrr Sr said they had narrowed down the actual time that little DeOrr was unaccounted for to four minutes. I wondered how that was decided and still do. Also, the remark that little DeOrr was going to be good for Grandpa made me wonder if they even told GGP that he was in charge or if they said something to the little one like 'will you stay and be good for Grandpa while mommy and daddy go for a walk?'. GGP may not have really realized he was supposed to look after him. Also, GGP said the parents were in sight of where he and little DeOrr were and he saw him walk toward the bank toward where parents were. So, what could have possibly happened in this small time frame? Unless the forty to forty five minutes is more accurate.

I totally agree. After mulling all this info (or lack thereof) for months like we all have, some things seem more apparent than at first.
It's never been said by the parents or sheriff or reported anywhere that there was any communication between the parents and GGP about keeping an eye on the toddler while they were gone. It seems like at some point that would have been shared if it was the case.
I think the parents snuck away as to not alert the toddler they were leaving and assumed he would be okay with GGP. (They said he was playing in the dirt when they left.)
If the parents came back after 40 minutes and realized he was gone, then searched for him, that lines up with the 911 call when JM said he had been missing for an hour.
So the head scratcher is how the time little DeOrr was unattended before the parents returned turned into 10 mins--or at one point 6 mins. (Maybe that's what DK said on his 911 call?) If GGP saw the toddler head to the embankment to presumably join his parents it seems like that would be something that happened when they first left. (Unless GGP couldn't comprehend what was happening around him or something.)




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[kammiemc]

What was the date of the article and or interview when the sheriff announced he had requested the assistance of the FBI?

I don't think the article you linked indicates the FBI had been assisting local LE for the entire first month of Deorr's disappearance.

Thanks for noticing that. I also don't assume that from the article either. It says "over" the month. Generally when you say something like "over the past month we've been talking" the implied meaning is that something has happened over the duration of the month. It could be read as the entire duration, but not necessarily. However, it certainly doesn't imply that you actually mean "over the past week" or "over the past two weeks". This is just one report. It's just not so clear when the sheriff reached out to the FBI. IMO.



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[bessie]

Here is an article from one month after DeOrr went missing that states that the FBI had been assisting local LE over that month.

I noticed it because I am still unclear as to exactly when the FBI was brought in. (Even though IMO I don't know that there are any implications as to that timing.)

For some reason I am thinking the FBI might have been involved sooner than the day it was publicly reported. I know that has been a focus of discussion, so just sharing something I know at least I didn't notice before.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/onemonth-mark-of-the-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34638970


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This is from an article dated July 31, 2015.

"The sheriff also said on Friday that the FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff's office who will be checking the sheriff's office interviews and may re-interview some people to make sure deputies didn't miss anything."
http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-320303121.html

 

[kammiemc]

Accidental post. Oh, Tapatalk!


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[desert-blue]

I totally agree. After mulling all this info (or lack thereof) for months like we all have, some things seem more apparent than at first.
It's never been said by the parents or sheriff or reported anywhere that there was any communication between the parents and GGP about keeping an eye on the toddler while they were gone. It seems like at some point that would have been shared if it was the case.
I think the parents snuck away as to not alert the toddler they were leaving and assumed he would be okay with GGP. (They said he was playing in the dirt when they left.)
If the parents came back after 40 minutes and realized he was gone, then searched for him, that lines up with the 911 call when JM said he had been missing for an hour.
So the head scratcher is how the time little DeOrr was unattended before the parents returned turned into 10 mins--or at one point 6 mins. (Maybe that's what DK said on his 911 call?) If GGP saw the toddler head to the embankment to presumably join his parents it seems like that would be something that happened when they first left. (Unless GGP couldn't comprehend what was happening around him or something.)




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If grandpa didn't know he was supposed to watch Deorr and/or fell asleep, his version may be the "wild card," so to speak. Maybe he really has no idea when Deorr walked away, so other folks have put words in his mouth. I also agree that there likely was not any verbal communication. If you assume Deorr went after his parents right away, that would make the time he was unattended much longer. If you later convinced GGP that he saw Deorr toddle away just 4 minutes before the parents returned, you could argue that he was only unattended for 4 minutes. Obviously the later versions have been given after having time to sit and think about how things may have occurred - the 911 version was given under duress and the important thing was not a precise timeline but getting help. My opinion is that later versions have been altered to try to reduce the amount of time he was unattended to make the parents seem less negligent, however, in doing so, they are also severely reducing any window of opportunity for abduction, so it's a double edged sword. It's hard to argue abduction if he was only unattended for 4 minutes, IMO. Perhaps that is why the sheriff originally ruled out abduction - if he later learned the amount of time Deorr was alone was much longer, he might start thinking that abduction, although still not likely, was possible. I don't know... just some thoughts. I also wonder what IR meant when he asked NE if he had talked to GGP?

 

[kammiemc]

This is from an article dated July 31, 2015.

"The sheriff also said on Friday that the FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff's office who will be checking the sheriff's office interviews and may re-interview some people to make sure deputies didn't miss anything."
http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-320303121.html

This is the info I had been going off of and just saw that other article that I posted. Because I don't know exactly how it works, is it safe to assume the sheriff reached out to the FBI on this day or shortly before. Or are there cases where local LE starts having convo's with FBI or getting assistance before pulling the trigger to send in a team and pass all the evidence to them? And is it solely the sheriff's decision? All my knowledge is from The Wire. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!!


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[ILOKAL]

Thanks for noticing that. I also don't assume that from the article either. It says "over" the month. Generally when you say something like "over the past month we've been talking" the implied meaning is that something has happened over the duration of the month. It could be read as the entire duration, but not necessarily. However, it certainly doesn't imply that you actually mean "over the past week" or "over the past two weeks". This is just one report. It's just not so clear when the sheriff reached out to the FBI. IMO.



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I think the very last sentence of that article indicates the assistance of the FBI was recent.

 

[kammiemc]

If grandpa didn't know he was supposed to watch Deorr and/or fell asleep, his version may be the "wild card," so to speak. Maybe he really has no idea when Deorr walked away, so other folks have put words in his mouth. I also agree that there likely was not any verbal communication. If you assume Deorr went after his parents right away, that would make the time he was unattended much longer. If you later convinced GGP that he saw Deorr toddle away just 4 minutes before the parents returned, you could argue that he was only unattended for 4 minutes. Obviously the later versions have been given after having time to sit and think about how things may have occurred - the 911 version was given under duress and the important thing was not a precise timeline but getting help. My opinion is that later versions have been altered to try to reduce the amount of time he was unattended to make the parents seem less negligent, however, in doing so, they are also severely reducing any window of opportunity for abduction, so it's a double edged sword. It's hard to argue abduction if he was only unattended for 4 minutes, IMO. Perhaps that is why the sheriff originally ruled out abduction - if he later learned the amount of time Deorr was alone was much longer, he might start thinking that abduction, although still not likely, was possible. I don't know... just some thoughts. I also wonder what IR meant when he asked NE if he had talked to GGP?

Very true! GGP has been outta sight.


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[ILOKAL]

This is the info I had been going off of and just saw that other article that I posted. Because I don't know exactly how it works, is it safe to assume the sheriff reached out to the FBI on this day or shortly before. Or are there cases where local LE starts having convo's with FBI or getting assistance before pulling the trigger to send in a team and pass all the evidence to them? And is it solely the sheriff's decision? All my knowledge is from The Wire. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!!


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The article Bessie posted was on Friday, July 31st and says "is sending" which would indicate (it seems) the FBI had not yet BEEN sent.

 

[ILOKAL]

Although I've followed this case from the beginning, I think I missed something along the way and continue to miss it. Almost everyone here seems to think there was no communication between the parents and GGPA about GGPA watching little Deorr while DK and JM went for a walk. Please help me find something that obviously has made this clear to others. TIA

 

[Karinna]

Family: FBI involved in search for missing toddler
KTVB, KTVB.COM 8:21 p.m. MDT August 2, 2015

SALMON, Idaho -- The FBI is now involved in the search for a missing eastern Idaho toddler, according to the boy's grandfather.

DeOrr Kunz, who shares a name with his missing grandson, tells KTVB that FBI agents have been in contact with family members and are now helping investigators search for the two-year-old.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...olved-in-search-for-missing-toddler/31038001/

 

[desert-blue]

Although I've followed this case from the beginning, I think I missed something along the way and continue to miss it. Almost everyone here seems to think there was no communication between the parents and GGPA about GGPA watching little Deorr while DK and JM went for a walk. Please help me find something that obviously has made this clear to others. TIA

For me, it is the lack of anyone relaying what words were exchanged between the parents and GGP. I haven't seen anything that indicates any verbal communication between the two parties (such as GGP saying that he and Deorr would be fine, or asking them how long they'd be gone, or asking if he should put Deorr down for a nap, etc. - or anything from JM or DK to GGP telling GGP what they were doing, where they were going, asking if it was okay for them to leave, etc.). The absence of this leads me to believe they just quietly left, thinking Deorr would be okay. DK said they thought Deorr would be good with GGP by the campfire (I'm paraphrasing here). It's also been said that GGP looked away and Deorr was gone or that he watched him walk over the embankment (again, my recollection) but I haven't read anything that indicates a verbal exchange. So, it's just an assumption on my part... could be wrong, of course.

 

[ILOKAL]

Family: FBI involved in search for missing toddler
KTVB, KTVB.COM 8:21 p.m. MDT August 2, 2015

SALMON, Idaho -- The FBI is now involved in the search for a missing eastern Idaho toddler, according to the boy's grandfather.

DeOrr Kunz, who shares a name with his missing grandson, tells KTVB that FBI agents have been in contact with family members and are now helping investigators search for the two-year-old.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...olved-in-search-for-missing-toddler/31038001/

Thank you for posting that article Karinna. It sounds like the FBI just entered the case.

Another thing I noticed (and had not noticed previously) is the reporter refers to the family getaway as a "fishing trip".

 

[sonjay]

Although I've followed this case from the beginning, I think I missed something along the way and continue to miss it. Almost everyone here seems to think there was no communication between the parents and GGPA about GGPA watching little Deorr while DK and JM went for a walk. Please help me find something that obviously has made this clear to others. TIA

As far as I can tell, there hasn't been any statement by anybody saying there was no communication.

The tentative conclusion that there was no communication between them is because there has not ever been any mention of any communication between them. The parents say they thought GGP was watching the boy. GGP either didn't know he was supposed to be watching the boy, or he thought the boy toddled off & found mom & dad. But no one has ever referred to any specific communication between parents and GGP that would make it clear that GGP knew he was supposed to be watching the boy.

The very lack of any such mention suggests that no such communication took place.

IMO, JMO, MOO and all that.

 

[kammiemc]

Family: FBI involved in search for missing toddler
KTVB, KTVB.COM 8:21 p.m. MDT August 2, 2015

SALMON, Idaho -- The FBI is now involved in the search for a missing eastern Idaho toddler, according to the boy's grandfather.

DeOrr Kunz, who shares a name with his missing grandson, tells KTVB that FBI agents have been in contact with family members and are now helping investigators search for the two-year-old.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...olved-in-search-for-missing-toddler/31038001/

Well I feel assured that the FBI acts fast at least. Sounds like in just two days of it being announced they were being called in they were already in contact with family members and on the job.
I wonder how they determined it would take 6-8 weeks to give a report. Maybe that's standard?



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[kammiemc]

Thank you for posting that article Karinna. It sounds like the FBI just entered the case.

Another thing I noticed (and had not noticed previously) is the reporter refers to the family getaway as a "fishing trip".

That makes sense with the parents going to find fishing spots and also helps make a little more sense as to why IR might have been invited to come along if he is a fishing enthusiast. (I know some people have been scratching their heads as to why IR might be invited to a family get together, but if fishing were the theme and he and GGP have bonded a bit over that, makes some sense.)



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[Karinna]

Well I feel assured that the FBI acts fast at least. Sounds like in just two days of it being announced they were being called in they were already in contact with family members and on the job.
I wonder how they determined it would take 6-8 weeks to give a report. Maybe that's standard?



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Yes they were on it. I don't know what's all involved with how the FBI operate and do their reports? Maybe we will hear more about it soon?

 

[kammiemc]

The article Bessie posted was on Friday, July 31st and says "is sending" which would indicate (it seems) the FBI had not yet BEEN sent.

Yes, that was the info I had been going off of. The other article seemed to paint a slightly different picture, which is not unusual--every time something is related it seems to be relayed differently (through the lens of whoever is relaying it). If the last articles posted by Bessie and Karina are accurate it sounds like the FBI were sent in sometime between July 31 and Aug 2 because on Aug 2 the grandpa had already been contacted by the FBI.


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