IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[TheDuchess]

I keep seeing reference to this 20 minutes and I am trying to find out how it was determined. If anyone knows I would appreciate if anyone can explain how the 20 minutes was determined. Thanks.

GPS from his vehicle determined that and it was confirmed by Filenko in the PC.

 

[Cubby]

Also, they are still waiting on some other ballistics to come back.

I'm curious to know what information might be forthcoming regarding additional ballistics. We already know he was shot with his own gun at close range.....

I can't think of what else they are waiting on regarding ballistics.

 

[Hatfield]

GPS from his vehicle determined that and it was confirmed by Filenko in the PC.

Thanks. That helps and I do find it interesting since if his first radio call he made about the 3 people came in after that 20 minutes then I can see why it becomes an important piece of the puzzle.

 

[Tillicum]

I'm curious to know what information might be forthcoming regarding additional ballistics. We already know he was shot with his own gun at close range.....

I can't think of what else they are waiting on regarding ballistics.

I'm guessing more along the lines of the trajectory? Remember the special equipment needed that they had to wait on?

 

[Cubby]

Has anyone asked the question as to whether or not they are sure that he was actually WEARING the vest when it was first shot? i.e. are they sure that he didn't hang it from a tree and shoot it and then put it back on? I'm not sure how you would be able to tell one way or another or if you could actually tell.

The reason I ask is that if he committed suicide, I can't imagine him deciding to shoot himself in the vest to try to kill himself. And if he wanted to make it look like a 2nd shot, I can't imagine him leaving it on, just in case he missed or it incapacitated him enough that he couldn't pull off the 2nd shot. So I would imagine he would have removed it first. If it could be determined that he was actually wearing the vest during the 1st shot, I would lean more toward homicide.
.

RSBM. I would think a bullet with the impact of a sledgehammer would leave some sign of wounds internally? Some bruising?

What if the first vest shot occured when he initially arrived at least 20 minutes before his radio call. It takiing 20 minutes for him to regain his composure and then making that radio call just prior to the second shot? It might sound irrational to us, but people who commit suicide aren't thinking rationaly.

 

[Tillicum]

I'm guessing more along the lines of the trajectory? Remember the special equipment needed that they had to wait on?

Lake County Sheriff’s Detective Chris Covelli confirms that the Northeastern Illinois Crime lab was unable to do all the necessary ballistics test, requiring that some highly sophisticated camera equipment be brought in from another lab to conduct additional tests to make sure nothing is missed.
Those tests are focused on reconstructing the trajectory of the bullet that killed Gliniewicz, as well as the distance from which it was likely fired. Tests are still also being done on the bullet that killed the officer.

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/local/21619159-story

 

[Cubby]

Well...and the signs of a struggle could have been staged. That said, with all of the evidence so far, there is a lot of things that need to be disproved before jumping to suicide.

Beside the unidentified transfer dna, what might those things be in your opinion?

 

[cady]

GPS from his vehicle determined that and it was confirmed by Filenko in the PC.

Question...I understand that GPS data shows that his squad car was there 20 minutes before the call, but they also said that they knew that he was on foot for that 20 min. I wondered how they would know that. If the devices he was wearing had GPS data, they would know not only that he WAS on foot, but also WHERE he was on foot wouldn't they? If that is the case, the places and direction that he was going would be the same places and direction as the alleged 3 perps he was following. JMO......but still no evidence of the perps?

 

[cady]

Did he possibly go INTO the vegetation, return to the road, make the call to dispatch and then return INTO the vegetation again? How precise is GPS data? JMO

 

[Japple]

GPS from his vehicle determined that and it was confirmed by Filenko in the PC.

The way I heard it, they knew he was in the area and on foot for 20 minutes. They were able to tell this from the radio on his body. But what exactly is the "area"? Was he up and down honing, Precision Dr, the treatment plant, and the gravel road?

I keep wondering why he would be there at that time of day, before work. I'm thinking that since it was part of his regular patrol, maybe he wanted to get it over with before the heat of the day was out in full force. I know I sometimes plan my day around that.

 

[Japple]

Beside the unidentified transfer dna, what might those things be in your opinion?

Possibly evidence that is still being held close to the vest. Remember, we don't really know what they have and do not have.

 

[Japple]

For all we know, they could even have a witness that saw at least 1 person fleeing the area. Maybe that call came in later in the day when such a witness recalled the incident and put 2+2 together. Thinking nothing of it at the time. Would LE want to keep that information close? Maybe if they felt the escape route was something only a suspect would know. To retain the credibility of the information during questioning at a later date.

 

[cady]

The way I heard it, they knew he was in the area and on foot for 20 minutes. They were able to tell this from the radio on his body. But what exactly is the "area"? Was he up and down honing, Precision Dr, the treatment plant, and the gravel road?

I keep wondering why he would be there at that time of day, before work. I'm thinking that since it was part of his regular patrol, maybe he wanted to get it over with before the heat of the day was out in full force. I know I sometimes plan my day around that.

Reportedly, part of his conversation with the Mayor, the day before,was about that area, and possible squatters and or drug dealing, vandalism, etc. which he volunteered to check out......presumably, on a regular basis. But I don't see where that would require him to go there, unbeknownst to his boss and colleagues, before checking in to work at roll call. The early hour seems way too early for druggies, but I suppose it could be seen as a good time to find squatters. I mean, really, instead of playing James Bond, how about a nice big sign that says something like "this area is patrolled, trespassers will be prosecuted". This secrecy is beyond weird!!!! JMO................better yet, how about surveillance cameras, surely they would show what activity was going on there at odd hours.

 

[cady]

For all we know, they could even have a witness that saw at least 1 person fleeing the area. Maybe that call came in later in the day when such a witness recalled the incident and put 2+2 together. Thinking nothing of it at the time. Would LE want to keep that information close? Maybe if they felt the escape route was something only a suspect would know. To retain the credibility of the information during questioning at a later date.

I think that we would have heard about an unnamed witness having seen someone(s) running away.... JMO

 

[liz b.]

Reportedly, part of his conversation with the Mayor, the day before,was about that area, and possible squatters and or drug dealing, vandalism, etc. which he volunteered to check out......presumably, on a regular basis. But I don't see where that would require him to go there, unbeknownst to his boss and colleagues, before checking in to work at roll call. The early hour seems way too early for druggies, but I suppose it could be seen as a good time to find squatters. I mean, really, instead of playing James Bond, how about a nice big sign that says something like "this area is patrolled, trespassers will be prosecuted". This secrecy is beyond weird!!!! JMO................better yet, how about surveillance cameras, surely they would show what activity was going on there at odd hours.

Perhaps CG was set up ?

 

[TheDuchess]

Beside the unidentified transfer dna, what might those things be in your opinion?

Well..think of the LT as a witness to this crime who is speaking to us after the fact. What has he told us? What has his body told us?

He tells us that he saw 3 men, 2 white 1 black. Just because we can't find the 3 men, does that disprove his statement? Could there be a logical explanation why we haven't found the 3? Answer: They got away somehow.
He tells they went into the swamp. Just because there are no footprints, doesn't mean they weren't there. Answer: it's a marshy area and footprints disappear.
His body tells us it was shot twice. Logic would dictate that suicide would include only one shot. Answer: The first shot would have put him off balance and thus make the 2nd shot easier to accomplish by a killer.
The scene tells us there is unknown DNA. So their could have been several people there. Answer: possible unknown persons at scene of the crime.
This all goes along with Filenko's PC, in case I didn't make it obvious enough. But Filenko is trying to tell us the LT's story.
So in other words, given none of this other evidence, suicide theory would be a simple conclusion. No call, no DNA, no evidence of a struggle, only one shot, etc...but since we have all of those things lined up telling one story, in my opinion, it needs to be disproven that these things are as they would seem.

Now let's think about what all of that evidence may have meant if the LT was still alive when they reached him. Would you be inclined to believe what he is telling you? He is a 30 year veteran, a family man, a good cop, a US veteran, a pillar of the community, etc...would you even doubt his story for an instant, at first blush? Probably not. So it stands to reason that they are investigating this as a homicide based on the story that was presented to them by their trusted officer. The evidence will either match up to his story or not. So far, many of the things we know actually do match up to his story. Unknown DNA. Evidence of a struggle. 2 shots. The radio call. Etc... So in order to change the investigation to a suicide investigation, in my opinion, there needs to be specific evidence pointing back in that direction. At this time, there appears to be no direct evidence pointing back that way that isn't speculation. To me, the lack of evidence is not evidence. The lack of 3 suspects is not evidence.

So what is known at this time all points to homicide. So I ask, what evidence do we have at this time, that points directly to suicide?

 

[Chuz Life]

Just to add another thought to my prior post;

If there were any real (significant) evidence of the reported "three suspects" actually being in that area and if there is any real evidence of a struggle between one or more of them and the officer. . .

WHY then is 'suicide' still in consideration as a possible manner of death? By the investigators!

I wish that those who still think this was a homicide could answer that for me.

I'll try. Very good points BTW.

Thanks.

Because it sounds like all they have is the LTs call, signs of a struggle, and unknown DNA. As long as they have at least that, they can't rule suicide without significant evidence of a suicide.

This does not answer the question of why 'suicide' is still on the table if the investigators reasonably believe there actually was a struggle and the three suspects were actually real and involved.

If the investigators TRULY believed that there is evidence of a struggle and the suspects were actually there, there would be no talk of a possible suicide at all.

Would there?

I think the DNA could be significant if we knew what it was, and where it was.

See above.

Also, one source I read said that of the five samples of dna tested, only one of them were male. That made me contemplate the possibility that the Lt. may have had one or more lady friends. And that lead to even further speculations about other possible motives for suicide. After all his family has already been through, I would very much hate for that to be the case.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think that we would have heard about an unnamed witness having seen someone(s) running away.... JMO

Agreed. This also tells me that this is not a crack head or meth head hangout during that time of the morning.

If it really was a drug infested / prostituting / high crime area. Then there would be some type of drug related witnesses that would have been hanging all around that location that morning. Some would be sleeping. Some would be buying or selling drugs or prostituting services or some would be searching for whatever.

But since there is not one single witness in that area. Tells me that the area was usually desolated and was not full of crime and mischief.

Now maybe it use to be. But if it still was. Then where are the grundgy witnesses that hang out in that area.

So I agree. This was definitely staged or leo is making this area seem more bad than what it really is. If this was a high drug area.

Then how many people did they encountered when first searching the area or arriving to the area.

 

[Chuz Life]

Just to add another thought to my prior post;

If there were any real (significant) evidence of the reported "three suspects" actually being in that area and if there is any real evidence of a struggle between one or more of them and the officer. . .

WHY then is 'suicide' still in consideration as a possible manner of death? By the investigators!

I wish that those who still think this was a homicide could answer that for me.

Im thinking the evidence of a struggle is just circumstantial evidence like scuff marks in the ground so it is not conclusive and that maybe why they cannot say with 100 percent certainty about it.

Right.

There is no solid/ clear evidence of a struggle.

If there was, there would be no serious consideration of this being a suicide at all.

 

[cady]

Perhaps CG was set up ?

Not out of the realm of possibilities, but by whom? Not the Mayor....they were buddies. If it was an inside job, the personal sighting by CG of the 3 perps was false. JMO