IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[Forever Young]

Thanks for posting! It was a great visual, although I would like to know the height difference between SA & the Comay cohost. The cohost’s arms seemed very long and had the doll very far outside the window.

And I too liked when the cohost sat & continued to take care of the doll.

I was thinking along the same line, only as to SA's waist measurement. That could account for several inches difference as to how far SA could actually reach over the railing.

 

[Forever Young]

I wish it had sub-titles

I was looking for the CC option, but no. They have really got "the nerve" on that program!

 

[Forever Young]

Yes, BetteDavis, Winkleman has blamed Chloe throughout-not only did she lead poor hapless Grandpa to her own demise, she ASKED to be picked up and SHE WANTED to bang on the glass and SHE LEANED forward at the open window and fell. Sam Anello has no responsibility. Was she just careless or will Winkleman next claim that she was suicidal?? I'm sorry for the very dark sarcasm, but this innocent baby's death being monetized and this very glib attorney's posturings are just unconscionable.

I've noticed this, too. Oh! It was all Chloe's fault, I see!

 

[Forever Young]

This is what I meant in my above post. I don't know if Chloe's parents would have even wanted to see their little girl after what happened. I would never have wanted to see my child in that condition. It must have been gruesome.

I read somewhere that someone did have to identify the body, and this was one of the excuses as to why they missed talking with prosecutors that day. They were distraught after identification of her body.

 

[Forever Young]

I just discovered, in watching this video that if you turn on "closed captioning" ( the little button marked cc) and then go to your settings, you can set the closed captioning to English, effectively giving you English subtitles.
To be honest, the translation seems a little off, as some of what was written (captioned) didn't make perfect grammatical sense in English, but still it is a very good way to at least get the "gist" of what they are saying, if you don't understand Spanish!

I did not see CC/closed captioning as an option. I will have to look again!

 

[Medstudies]

Thanks for posting! It was a great visual, although I would like to know the height difference between SA & the Comay cohost. The cohost’s arms seemed very long and had the doll very far outside the window.

And I too liked when the cohost sat & continued to take care of the doll.

This really is such a great visual.

I rewatched but then changed my focus to the foreground while the video played. This time to watch the passengers reaction after he dropped her.

I’m sure I’m not the only one who noticed: but it sure looked like heads went out their window frames. (Screencap but the video shows better)

And interestingly those who rushed to look - seemed to head toward those open windows...

 

[oviedo]

I read somewhere that someone did have to identify the body, and this was one of the excuses as to why they missed talking with prosecutors that day. They were distraught after identification of her body.

My guess is the Dad who then took photos of the window area which were published in the dailymail IIRC
JMO

 

[oviedo]

@oviedo pdf of top of page 1 of Complaint shows:
Case 1:19-cv-25100-XXXX Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/11/2019 Page 1 of 21
Filed in US DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI DIVISION

I have not looked on court database/website, but law firm website has pdf/image of the Complaint itself.
First go to lipcon.com
Select tab "SUCCESS STORIES"
In dropdown box, select "WORK IN PROGRESS"
If you get box w prompt to open the file, then hit open.
If not, scroll down to chrono list, and
click on Dec. 11, 2019, Complaint, Wiegand v Royal Caribbean.

Ugh it’s Pacer - the answer should have been filed IMO -if it was, why no media reporting ? Anyone have a pacer account ?

 

[Forever Young]

I did not see CC/closed captioning as an option. I will have to look again!

I was able to get the CC on and in English. It is a very poor translation, but I'm picking up that La Comay is saying that what has been reported as an 18 inch gap between the railing and the window is not correct, and that the actual measurement is much less. I saw the number 9 closely following the comment on 18 inches.

@35:41, the translated version has La Comay saying "...let's see what he says how much there were away let's see". Then a clip of David Begnaud saying that the gap is 18 inches.

The translation goes on "says that from the railing to the glass 18 inches, 18 inches". "We have prepared it here exactly as it is on the ship." "Let's first see the railing of 9 the ship's rail in this man says that can't touch the glass...let's see the boat rail video." Then shows the YouTube video of the man that we have previously viewed, pointing out over the railing.

Hmm...I will admit that on the video of the tour of Deck 11, where the guy reaches out the window, the reach does look to be considerably less than 18 inches.

Goes on to say "look at where is the window here. We have done that which is here."

So I'm guessing that in the La Comay reenactment, they did not place the window a full 18 inches out from the railing.

Is the 18 inch gap yet another inaccuracy that we've been led to believe?

 

[Forever Young]

Because, if it were really 18 inches, his head would not breach the glass.

 

[neesaki]

I was able to get the CC on and in English. It is a very poor translation, but I'm picking up that La Comay is saying that what has been reported as an 18 inch gap between the railing and the window is not correct, and that the actual measurement is much less. I saw the number 9 closely following the comment on 18 inches.

@35:41, the translated version has La Comay saying "...let's see what he says how much there were away let's see". Then a clip of David Begnaud saying that the gap is 18 inches.

The translation goes on "says that from the railing to the glass 18 inches, 18 inches". "We have prepared it here exactly as it is on the ship." "Let's first see the railing of 9 the ship's rail in this man says that can't touch the glass...let's see the boat rail video." Then shows the YouTube video of the man that we have previously viewed, pointing out over the railing.

Hmm...I will admit that on the video of the tour of Deck 11, where the guy reaches out the window, the reach does look to be considerably less than 18 inches.

Goes on to say "look at where is the window here. We have done that which is here."

So I'm guessing that in the La Comay reenactment, they did not place the window a full 18 inches out from the railing.

Is the 18 inch gap yet another inaccuracy that we've been led to believe?

I recall the poster here @they'll get you (?) posting a pic and I think it showed 15 inches from the outermost window edge to the outside edge of the wood railing. Don't know if the exact boat though.

 

[they'll get you]

Because, if it were really 18 inches, his head would not breach the glass.

 

[neesaki]

View attachment 225092

So that looks like a tiny bit over 15 inches. Right ? Regardless, I saw SA stick his head outside the window and look DOWN and around. It happened.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Has anyone done this?

*Use a countertop (doesn’t have to be a railing)
*Press midsection/stomach/belly against it.
*Use a tape measure and measure 15 inches away from where you are pressing into the countertop.
*Get a stuffed animal or whatever and try to see how far out in front you can comfortably hold it.

 

[Yellowbeak]

I had not seen this particular episode of La Comay, dated December 18, 2019. The hosts use a model of the railing and window and a doll for demonstration. Demonstration begins slightly before the 45 minute mark.

Wow! That is a disturbing visual. That does seem to match his movements. If the measurements are correct then he is in deep doo doo.

 

[MsMarple]

I was able to get the CC on and in English. It is a very poor translation, but I'm picking up that La Comay is saying that what has been reported as an 18 inch gap between the railing and the window is not correct, and that the actual measurement is much less. I saw the number 9 closely following the comment on 18 inches.

@35:41, the translated version has La Comay saying "...let's see what he says how much there were away let's see". Then a clip of David Begnaud saying that the gap is 18 inches.

The translation goes on "says that from the railing to the glass 18 inches, 18 inches". "We have prepared it here exactly as it is on the ship." "Let's first see the railing of 9 the ship's rail in this man says that can't touch the glass...let's see the boat rail video." Then shows the YouTube video of the man that we have previously viewed, pointing out over the railing.

Hmm...I will admit that on the video of the tour of Deck 11, where the guy reaches out the window, the reach does look to be considerably less than 18 inches.

Goes on to say "look at where is the window here. We have done that which is here."

So I'm guessing that in the La Comay reenactment, they did not place the window a full 18 inches out from the railing.

Is the 18 inch gap yet another inaccuracy that we've been led to believe?

Don't the windows tilt outward a bit? If so then I bet Winkleman is measuring the distance to the glass further up rather than at the bottom ledge. I know there are pics of it around. It kind of makes sense if discussing the distance at SA's head level but it's still relevant to note the distance to the bottom ledge since that's where she went out.

Either way SA's head came very close to the actual opening so I'm calling Winkleman's measurements smoke and mirrors.

I still can't figure out how neither Chloe nor SA weren't able to touch the glass at floor level though. Something's off IMO. It's clear that Chloe could have banged on the glass while standing on the floor. More BS I suppose.

Has anyone done this?

*Use a countertop (doesn’t have to be a railing)
*Press midsection/stomach/belly against it.
*Use a tape measure and measure 15 inches away from where you are pressing into the countertop.
*Get a stuffed animal or whatever and try to see how far out in front you can comfortably hold it.

I didn't do the stuffed animal part but I did do a mock up of the distance from a railing height of about 42". At 5'4" I was able to lean far enough to get about 14" in without too much effort. At a stretch I could have gone another inch or 2. Assuming SA is somewhere around 5'10" then he should go even further.

 

[MimosaMornings]

I’ve been trying to keep up and read all the posts, sorry if this sounds clueless.
In the beginning from what I had read and surmised - I thought he was holding Chloe while she was sitting on the railing and she pitched forward (somehow).

Is the consensus that he was holding her outside the window?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I recall the poster here @they'll get you (?) posting a pic and I think it showed 15 inches from the outermost window edge to the outside edge of the wood railing. Don't know if the exact boat though.

We measured it a while back. Even adding the width of the window itself and the width of the railing. Measured from outside of railing, ship’s interior to outside of window, ship’s exterior. Too late to look up my post but as I recall, I used a cruiser from WS who was measuring for us. And her cute shoes.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

So what’s David Begnaud’s spin on this now? He was so gung ho at the first round table with three other reporters from the station.
And those crocodile tears and trembling body movements. It was so bad on SA Bregnaud had to put his hand on SA’s thigh to comfort him.
Euk. Is there an academy award for the worst performance in a documentary?
I’m colorblind. I was trying to feel
the window. If didn’t see the shades of blue. But I sure stuck my head out of the window to see how far down it was. I got dizzy looking down and I wasn’t even on the ship.
You know, it has crossed my mind that as a premie she may have been indulged to extreme. Spoiled. Sure let’s beat on windows at hockey games. Let’s go to all the hockey games right after you’re released from icu. Let’s dress you up as a little doll. You can do whatever you want to do. No one ever said no to Chloe.
IMOO. So why wasn’t she reigned in? It could have saved her life.
Maybe I’m wrong. Cute “little mermaid” outfit way too big for her. She’d have been stumbling on the hem. I wonder if there were any other mishaps?

 

[mickey2942]

Don't the windows tilt outward a bit? If so then I bet Winkleman is measuring the distance to the glass further up rather than at the bottom ledge. I know there are pics of it around. It kind of makes sense if discussing the distance at SA's head level but it's still relevant to note the distance to the bottom ledge since that's where she went out.

Either way SA's head came very close to the actual opening so I'm calling Winkleman's measurements smoke and mirrors.

I still can't figure out how neither Chloe nor SA weren't able to touch the glass at floor level though. Something's off IMO. It's clear that Chloe could have banged on the glass while standing on the floor. More BS I suppose.



I didn't do the stuffed animal part but I did do a mock up of the distance from a railing height of about 42". At 5'4" I was able to lean far enough to get about 14" in without too much effort. At a stretch I could have gone another inch or 2. Assuming SA is somewhere around 5'10" then he should go even further.

SA has quite a belly, and he definitely doesn't look like he is 5'10"! He is significantly shorter, maybe 5'7", or less. His arms seemed more like a "Tyrannosaurus Rex", short and stubby.

Chloe was very slight, I wonder if a gust of wind came up? 11 stories up, on the ocean, wind can fluctuate and be significant.