Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #9

[Sundog]

44min ago

In Brussels, FM Cohen says Iran is financing Hamas to stop Arab countries’ normalization with Israel​

Foreign Minister Eli Cohen tells EU parliamentarians in Brussels that Iran is orchestrating attacks on Israel in order to stop the tide of normalization and peace in the region.

“We need to win this war in order to ensure that the West will not be next, since terrorism, it’s like a cancer,” Cohen says, adding that Hamas has used international financial aid to build tunnels and rocket factories while leaving Palestinians “starving.”

“We are not attacked only by the Hamas and by the Islamic Jihad. We are also attacked by the Hezbollah in our northern border and also by the Houthis in Yemen,” Cohen adds.

“There is one thing that connects them: Iran. Iran is the world number one financer of terror,” he says, accusing Tehran of acting to try and “stop the normalization and the peace process that took place in the last three years.”

31min ago

Hamas slams UNRWA for ‘colluding’ with Israel in southward movement of Gazans​

Hamas angrily accuses the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees of “colluding” with Israel in the “forced displacement” of residents of Gaza.

“UNRWA and its officials bear responsibility for this humanitarian catastrophe, in particular the residents of the Gaza [City] area and north of it” who are moving along IDF-arranged displacement routes to flee south, says Salama Maruf, head of the media bureau of Hamas.

For weeks Israel has been urging residents of the northern part of the Strip to move south ahead of its now-intense ground operation. Over the past few days, the IDF has secured humanitarian corridors to enable residents to head southward safely, infuriating Hamas.

Interesting that now the Hamas terrorist government of Gaza is now turning against UNRWA. UNRWA members may want to pack up and get out of their now since they have now infuriated Hamas. Wonder what the UN will have to say about this, or if they will even acknowledge it.

 

[PrairieWind]

Fatah and Hamas had an increasingly violent falling out that resulted in the Palestinians have two governing authorities for each of their two territories- Fatah, West Bank and HAMAS, Gaza.

As for why people in Gaza accept HAMAS, I imagine that it is some what similar to people in Northern Ireland in regards to acceptance of the IRA and Protestant militants- the answer can change depending on who is asking the question, how the person feels that day, and.... how the question is phrased.

In the end, there maybe some broad themes:

- HAMAS, is willing to fight. For people who have been dispossessed for generations, this means a lot.

- HAMAS, like the Northern Ireland groups, probably wears many hats: Part ISIS style terror group which slaughters civilians. Part resistance group (despite Israel's huge weapons and technology advantages, HAMAS successfully over an several IDF compounds on October 07), part Mafia crime family, part community service group etc. Thus, locals can accept one manifestation, but reject others.

- Like the Northern Ireland groups, open opposition to HAMAS can be hazardous to one's health. Such groups are experts at identifying and eliminating opponents (often in well, messy, example setting ways). Standing against them can be easier said then done.

- Some Gazans who do not support Hamas, also do not want to be seen as begging for hand outs or favors from the Israelis.

So, in the end, I imagine that it is..... complex and..... constantly changing.

With Hamas admitting recently that they aren't interested in running Gaza, just endless, war, I would think Palestinians in Gaza would understand Hamas does NOT care about Gazans. The fact that most of their leadership lives in luxury in Qatar and Lebanon should also be a clue.
I think your comparison to a mafia crime family is a good analogy. They give some charity to the people but it is just calculated to (1) get some good will, and (2) more importantly, get the people reliant on that aid so they CAN'T try to throw you out.
Again, I dislike the comparisons to the troubles in Northern Ireland. Those groups didn't directly target innocent civilians and would not have intentionally committed acts in order to draw fire on to their own people.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Brazilian Federal Police arrests suspected members of #Hezbollah who were planning terror attacks in the country

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722298988446064947

 

[Momoffourboys]

IDF says troops of the 551st Brigade and the elite Yahalom combat engineering unit located and destroyed a tunnel adjacent to an UNRWA school in the Beit Hanoun area.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722301923343110204

 

[Momoffourboys]

'Hamas, cognisant of the fact that the world loves to condemn Israel, intentionally built its system intermingled with civilian population, knowing that by intl. law it makes those places legitimate targets,'Major (Res.) Elliot Chodoff explains Hamas' strategy to @benitalevin

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722286776704811290

 

[Momoffourboys]

A Palestinian dentist in Gaza has recounted to the BBC how Israeli intelligence agents spent hours on the phone with him, urging him to evacuate and save hundreds of his neighbors ahead of a series of airstrikes that destroyed a wide swath of apartment buildings in a Gaza City neighborhood.
…
“You need to escape because they will bomb the towers,” he recounted someone in the street shouting.
….
Shaheen said he then ran around the neighborhood frantically urging all those in the three apartment buildings to evacuate. His building was nearby, but not one of those targeted.

The Israeli caller spent over an hour on the phone with Shaheen reportedly telling him that he would give him time as he did not want anyone to die.
….
Shaheen said that once he confirmed the area was clear, the man told him they would now bomb the first one, which they did, then all three buildings specified were hit as Israeli aircraft circled overhead.

“This is the tower that we want, stay away,” Abu Khaled said.

When the bombing was over, the Israeli told Shaheen. “We’ve finished… you can go back.”
…
The IDF has released recordings of other calls made by officers in the Military Intelligence Directorate’s Unit 504 — which specializes in HUMINT — to Gaza residents urging them to evacuate buildings and leave for the south.

In one recording, the local resident can be heard telling the Israeli officer that Hamas was shooting at people trying to flee south.

more: https://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-...phone-with-me-to-evacuate-targeted-buildings/

 

[Momoffourboys]

​

Israel Police gather testimony detailing rape, sexual assault on October 7​

Israel Police's Lahav 433 National Crime Unit collected the testimony of a young woman who survived the massacre at the music festival in Re'im.​

(I won’t post details. Just beyond horrific)

Israel Police gather testimony detailing rape, sexual assault on Oct. 7

Israel Police's Lahav 433 National Crime Unit collected the testimony of a young woman who survived the massacre at the music festival in Re'im.

www.jpost.com

 

[Brightchaser47]

2hr ago

Hamas members tell NYT they hope for ‘permanent’ war, do not care about running Gaza​

In interviews with the New York Times, Hamas higher-ups say their goal with the attacks on October 7 was to “change the entire equation” and renew attention on the Palestinian cause, in the words of Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the terror group’s politburo in Qatar.

[...]

Al-Hayya and other Hamas members quoted dismiss the idea that they want to govern Gaza, instead expressing support for endless conflict.

“I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” Hamas media consultant Taher El-Nounou is quoted telling the paper.

“Hamas’s goal is not to run Gaza and to bring it water and electricity and such,” says al-Hayya.

“This battle was not because we wanted fuel or laborers,” he adds. “It did not seek to improve the situation in Gaza. This battle is to completely overthrow the situation.”

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen...

 

[Brightchaser47]

The majority of people in Gaza live under the poverty line. But you know who doesn’t? Hamas’ leadership worth BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Hamas isn’t only stealing money from Gaza. It’s stealing the future of Gaza.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722260186092732810

Exactly.

 

[Cryptic]

Again, I dislike the comparisons to the troubles in Northern Ireland. Those groups didn't directly target innocent civilians and would not have intentionally committed acts in order to draw fire on to their own people.

Thanks for the support regarding mafia analogy. I also like your reference to the standard mafia strategy of mixing odd will, with fear, while imposing a constant cost. As a side note to the mafia analogy regarding terror groups, one Protestant terror commander owned a "dive" brothel. Meanwhile an IRA supreme Commander was head of a large "chop shop".

But.... I don't think you have a good understanding of Northeren Ireland. Civilians were routinely targeted by both sides. Here are just a few examples:

The IRA placed bombs in these pubs, killing 2 dozen people:

Birmingham pub bombings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Guildford pub bombings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They also attacked this restaurant with "home made napalm" killing civlians:

La Mon restaurant bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Meanwhile.... Protestant militants purposefully killed 33 civilians in these attacks:

Dublin and Monaghan bombings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then killed 6 civilians in this pub:

Rose & Crown Bar bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PapillonVert]

With Hamas admitting recently that they aren't interested in running Gaza, just endless, war, I would think Palestinians in Gaza would understand Hamas does NOT care about Gazans. The fact that most of their leadership lives in luxury in Qatar and Lebanon should also be a clue.
I think your comparison to a mafia crime family is a good analogy. They give some charity to the people but it is just calculated to (1) get some good will, and (2) more importantly, get the people reliant on that aid so they CAN'T try to throw you out.
Again, I dislike the comparisons to the troubles in Northern Ireland. Those groups didn't directly target innocent civilians and would not have intentionally committed acts in order to draw fire on to their own people.

I wonder if ordinary civilians in Gaza actually know all that though. I wonder if Israel has ever tried to do leaflet campaigns to educate Gazan civilians about Hamas. I’m sure they have but if not, it seems like it would be a good idea to drop leaflets showing the net worth of the individuals that run Hamas, pictures of their luxurious mansions, etc.

I wonder how ordinary Gazans would feel knowing that many of the people who were killed or taken hostage are peace activists that want to see a solution that benefits Gazans as well as Israelis. I wonder how they would react if they knew that.

 

[Chimera]

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen...

Agreed 100 %.
They are never going to stop.
Oct. 7th will be repeated ad nauseam.
Hamas needs to be destroyed.
All of them.
Plus the leaders who are safely hiding like cowards in other countries.
Omo.

 

[Cryptic]

I wonder how ordinary Gazans would feel knowing that many of the people who were killed or taken hostage are peace activists that want to see a solution that benefits Gazans as well as Israelis. I wonder how they would react if they knew that.

That is one of the ironies of the tragedy. Neither the Kibbutzes nor the music concert were sources of far right settlers making new land "claims" on the West Bank.

As you stated, HAMAS murdered the very Israelis most likely to be sympathetic to the Palestinian people's plight.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I wonder if ordinary civilians in Gaza actually know all that though. I wonder if Israel has ever tried to do leaflet campaigns to educate Gazan civilians about Hamas. I’m sure they have but if not, it seems like it would be a good idea to drop leaflets showing the net worth of the individuals that run Hamas, pictures of their luxurious mansions, etc.

I wonder how ordinary Gazans would feel knowing that many of the people who were  killed or taken hostage are peace activists that want to see a solution that benefits Gazans as well as Israelis. I wonder how they would react if they knew that.

I was thinking the same thing, but I wonder how many Gazans would actually believe if they  were told by IDF. Remember the posts about 'screenings' held by Hamas outside the hospital (to the cheers of the crowd gathered there)?

 

[Dotta]

Fatah and Hamas had an increasingly violent falling out that resulted in the Palestinians have two governing authorities for each of their two territories- Fatah, West Bank and HAMAS, Gaza.

As for why people in Gaza accept HAMAS, I imagine that it is some what similar to people in Northern Ireland in regards to acceptance of the IRA and Protestant militants- the answer can change depending on who is asking the question, how the person feels that day, and.... how the question is phrased.

In the end, there maybe some broad themes:

- HAMAS, is willing to fight. For people who have been dispossessed for generations, this means a lot.

- HAMAS, like the Northern Ireland groups, probably wears many hats: Part ISIS style terror group which slaughters civilians. Part resistance group (despite Israel's huge weapons and technology advantages, HAMAS successfully over an several IDF compounds on October 07), part Mafia crime family, part community service group etc. Thus, locals can accept one manifestation, but reject others.

- Like the Northern Ireland groups, open opposition to HAMAS can be hazardous to one's health. Such groups are experts at identifying and eliminating opponents (often in well, messy, example setting ways). Standing against them can be easier said then done.

- Some Gazans who do not support Hamas, also do not want to be seen as begging for hand outs or favors from the Israelis.

So, in the end, I imagine that it is..... complex and..... constantly changing.

It seems that Fatah is a puppet/weak government.
It is not able to oppose to illegal settlements, is it?

I cannot imagine Hamas agree to it.
Although there were some settlers in Gaza, they were removed later.

 

[Cryptic]

It seems that Fatah is a puppet/weak government.
It is not able to oppose to illegal settlements, is it?

You are correct. FATAH cannot oppose new settlements, and cannot stop Israeli police, military and armed settlers from entering its shrinking territory. And, your point really illustrates how complex the entire situation for the Palestinians:

HAMAS- Is willing to fight. But, also chooses to unleash a horrific terror attack resulting in a new war and large numbers of Palestinian deaths.

FATAH- Chooses peace. But then gets "ran over" by the Israelis everyday as new settlements, buffer zones, and unoffical "no go" areas (established by armed settlers) go up- all backed up by the IDF.

 

[Dotta]

You are correct. FATAH cannot oppose new settlements, and cannot stop Israeli police, military and armed settlers from entering its shrinking territory. And, your point really illustrates how complex the entire situation for the Palestinians:

HAMAS- Is willing to fight. But, also chooses to unleash a horrific terror attack resulting in a new war and large numbers of Palestinian deaths.

FATAH- Chooses peace. But then gets "ran over" by the Israelis everyday as new settlements, buffer zones, and unoffical "no go" areas (established by armed settlers) go up- all backed up by the IDF.

So it is no wonder Gazans chose Hamas.
I cannot imagine Hamas "greeting" settlers meekly.
If you know what I mean.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Breaking: A recorded conversation between a Hamas terrorist and a Gazan reveals that Hamas is using ambulances to transfer weapons and terrorist operatives in the Gaza Strip.Hamas terrorist operative: “I can leave with any ambulance I want.”Hamas exploits civilian infrastructure and uses civilians as human shields.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722323218428551235

 

[Cryptic]

So it is no wonder Gazans chose Hamas.
I cannot imagine Hamas "greeting" settlers meekly.
If you know what I mean.

The Israelis concluded the same.

They dismantled all settlements in Gaza- not because they wanted to, but because they concluded that Hamas would not stop attacking them. And.... the settlements were isolated and needed alot of resources to defend.

As a side note...

The Gazan settlements were "extreme"- even by settlement standards and were becoming PR nightmare for the Israelis. 9,000 settlers had been allowed to claim land that would have supported 270,000 Palestinians. They then had 6 times the water rights of Palestinian farmers. The numbers were just too lopsided.

Likewise, they needed a large number of "settler only" roads and buffer zones that further constricted the Palestinians in an already crowded area.

 

[Cryptic]

I wonder if Israel has ever tried to do leaflet campaigns to educate Gazan civilians about Hamas. I’m sure they have but if not, it seems like it would be a good idea to drop leaflets showing the net worth of the individuals that run Hamas, pictures of their luxurious mansions, etc.

Wow, that is a great idea.

But... not just leaflets. Rather, go total social media and use You Tube, X/ Twitter, Instagram etc. etc. And... be sure to include easy "share options" in multiple languages.

Also... the Hamas leaders live in the more liberal Gulf States. I wonder if any have developed uhmm..... "un Islamic" tastes for alcohol, and fast women- maybe of the "professional" sort?

In either case, well paid private detectives might find some pretty interesting information about the people who banned beer in Gaza, but might be also be going "top shelf or nothing" in Bahrain night clubs.