jury is out until Wednesday 21 March: general discussion thread

[daisy.faithfull]

I'm not seeing the check in pics from the Super 8 either. I could be missing them though. I do remember that MTR was at check in desk with TLM standing behind him. I didn't think of that before, only that I had seen the tweet about TLM paying.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

I knew I had seen that somewhere! Muchas gracias!

Well, here is the bank record. It does not show the Super 8 but it only shows transactions between 2.3 to 2.5.09.

She said on the night she met him, he wrote his number on the pizza box and when she didn't call in the next few days... oh heck, don't take my word for it RR was there tweeting it for everyone to read:

RaffertyLFP: McClinitic said Rafferty wrote his number on pizza box, showed up a few days later asking why she had not called [via Twitter]

 

[scapa]

Tori's Law signing for petition letter to Stephen Harper.
Re-open the death sentence debate for child killers.

http://www.change.org/petitions/tori-s-law

BBM. And why would it stop at child-killers? Why not brutal rapist-murderers of promising young (or not-so-young) women and men? What about those who murder the physically or mentally challenged, the cancer-stricken, teenagers, the elderly, the good?

This thread is NOT the place to open up the death-penalty debate, IMHO. We're here to discuss the trial of the alleged (and confessed) killers of Tori Stafford, and since the death penalty does not presently exist in Canada, it is not part of this trial.

FWIW, it's bad enough that the recently passed (in the view of many, deeply misguided) crime omnibus bill has been tethered to (serious) issues of child exploitation as a way of making political capital. Pushing for the reinstatement of CP in Canada on the basis of this case -- and in this thread -- seems to me to be profoundly off the mark.

IMHO, JMO and all that,

s

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Thinking about MTR and TLM's relationship, having sex with and IV drug user is exremely high risk behavior even if he was using a condom. It takes cheating on other girlfriend(s) with TLM to another level of b@stardliness.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

She said on the night she met him, he wrote his number on the pizza box and when she didn't call in the next few days... oh heck, don't take my word for it RR was there tweeting it for everyone to read:

RaffertyLFP: McClinitic said Rafferty wrote his number on pizza box, showed up a few days later asking why she had not called [via Twitter]

Got it . I was only pointing out the absence of a Super 8 because it's what we were talking about. The pizza up rchase is highlighted on the transaction record.

 

[otto]

Thanks for posting here! Signed up and shared!!!

A petition in favour of capital punishment for the murder of children is a slippery slope, as there are so many factors. Case in point:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...fends-decision-to-kill-disabled-daughter.html

 

[matou]

Thinking about MTR and TLM's relationship, having sex with and IV drug user is extremely high risk behavior even if he was using a condom. It takes cheating on other girlfriend(s) with TLM to another level of b@stardliness.

He raped a child and went on to date another woman almost immediately afterwards and he likely didn't stop at the newer woman either. There is no word for the person he is. Having sex with an IV user is really not even worth discussing IMO, nor is cheating on a girlfriend with someone like TLM even remotely in the same category of b@stardliness of what a child rapist is. JMO MOO MOO

 

[nonfictionrocks]

Thinking about MTR and TLM's relationship, having sex with and IV drug user is exremely high risk behavior even if he was using a condom. It takes cheating on other girlfriend(s) with TLM to another level of b@stardliness.

It most certainly does. I have no doubt MTR was probably having sex with TLM and for the sake of any women who were with him after this, I hope he wore protection. IMO she strikes me as the type looking to get knocked up quickly in order to collect OW with relative ease.

 

[flipflop]

I'm not seeing the check in pics from the Super 8 either. I could be missing them though. I do remember that MTR was at check in desk with TLM standing behind him. I didn't think of that before, only that I had seen the tweet about TLM paying.

Someone had reported that the video of them at a "check in type desk" was actually the movie theatre, the pics of the super 8 are in this link #2, 3, 4

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

 

[daisy.faithfull]

BBM. And why would it stop at child-killers? Why not brutal rapist-murderers of promising young (or not-so-young) women and men? What about those who murder the physically or mentally challenged, the cancer-stricken, teenagers, the elderly, the good?

This thread is NOT the place to open up the death-penalty debate, IMHO. We're here to discuss the trial of the alleged (and confessed) killers of Tori Stafford, and since the death penalty does not presently exist in Canada, it is not part of this trial.

FWIW, it's bad enough that the recently passed (in the view of many, deeply misguided) crime omnibus bill has been tethered to (serious) issues of child exploitation as a way of making political capital. Pushing for the reinstatement of CP in Canada on the basis of this case -- and in this thread -- seems to me to be profoundly off the mark.

IMHO, JMO and all that,

s

That is correct.

As someone who lives in a county who's Sheriff's jails are on Amnesty International's list of human rights violators I can also say that extremely cruel jail conditions do not change the behavior of offenders. It does change how I feel about where I live, it's shameful. It's also expensive, he is constantly slapped with lawsuits.

Just to emphasize, :moo:

I don't think the possibility of being executed or even jailed would have prevented what happened to Tori. :moo: And that's all I will say about that, I just wanted to back up what you were saying about the death penalty and crime prevention, based on what I see up close when it comes to what I see as cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

Someone had reported that the video of them at a "check in type desk" was actually the movie theatre, the pics of the super 8 are in this link #2, 3, 4

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

Thank you FF, but it is the video I am looking for because it was shown right after the transaction record that seems to not be in the link you provided either:

12:35pm RaffertyLFP: Court sees video of Rafferty and McClintic she can't identify location seems to be motel [via Twitter]

 

[antiquegirl]

It most certainly does. I have no doubt MTR was probably having sex with TLM and for the sake of any women who were with him after this, I hope he wore protection. IMO she strikes me as the type looking to get knocked up quickly in order to collect OW with relative ease.

I have the impression that these two didn't see each other all that often. Suspect that he showed up a few times when he wanted some drugs and got a little something else on the side.

According to the Tweets:

Adrian Morrow‏@AdrianMorrow

Terri-Lynn McClintic describes her relationship with Rafferty: they would drive around, go to London, went to Winners, installed a car stere[o]

RaffertyLFP:

McClintic said Rafferty came back several times for more oxy. They would drive around including trip to London [via Twitter]

RaffertyLFP:

They had sex on a few occasions including once when they went to a movie in Woodstock [via Twitter]

Cynthia Mulligan‏@CityCynthia

#Rafferty - they had sex approx 3 times.

(The above are in the approximate order they appeared on Day 5.)

So, if CM caught the actual number of "approximately 3 times", that sure doesn't sound like much for a couple who were supposed to be girlfriend/boyfriend for over two months. If you count #1 as the first night they met, #2 at the movie theatre, and #3 at the Super 8 Motel, that seems to be "approximately" it!

We know that MTR was purportedly as promiscuous as hell and that he had plenty of other women, so I'm guessing that this whole relationship was strictly in TLM's head. I'd call it "friends with very occasional benefits".

JMO

 

[swedie]

She said on the night she met him, he wrote his number on the pizza box and when she didn't call in the next few days... oh heck, don't take my word for it RR was there tweeting it for everyone to read:

RaffertyLFP: McClinitic said Rafferty wrote his number on pizza box, showed up a few days later asking why she had not called [via Twitter]

Is that the same day MR asked her for drugs and she took him to get some from someone she knew? I've wondered why she didn't call MR after that first rendezvous? From what we have been privy to so far, MR took TLM into the country and he has sex with her, in his car that first night, within a few hours of meeting her. Maybe it wasn't consensual sex? :waitasec: Could that be why she never called him again? Maybe her phone had no money or time left on it? Obviously at that early point in the relationship, something happened to raise a red flag for TLM, as TLM didn't feel to eager to get in touch with MR right away. Could there have been some talk of his desire to abduct a little girl? Maybe he teased TLM of being "too young" for him? Too many questions, and I wonder if we will every get a clearer picture of their relationship. She claims they were bf/gf but is there any information out there showing MR denies it? If he denies it, he basically used TLM for sex, drugs and a partner in crime. All just my opinion.

 

[mareseatoats]

"Friends with very occasional benefits" - LOVE it! Totally agree that this purported relationship was imagined!
I also totally agree with Cha re the surmising and elaborations brought forward concerning Tori's death. IMO ghoulish and totally inappropriate.
I also agree that IF, AFTER ALL THE EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED AND CONSIDERED, MR is determined to be guilty of this horror, he should be punished to the full extent of the law.
I sincerely hope that these jurors were honest when they swore they could be unbiased and open minded - a right that MUST be afforded to ALL.

 

[ChaChaCha]

Is that the same day MR asked her for drugs and she took him to get some from someone she knew? I've wondered why she didn't call MR after that first rendezvous? From what we have been privy to so far, MR took TLM into the country and he has sex with her, in his car that first night, within a few hours of meeting her. Maybe it wasn't consensual sex? :waitasec: Could that be why she never called him again? Maybe her phone had no money or time left on it? Obviously at that early point in the relationship, something happened to raise a red flag for TLM, as TLM didn't feel to eager to get in touch with MR right away. Could there have been some talk of his desire to abduct a little girl? Maybe he teased TLM of being "too young" for him? Too many questions, and I wonder if we will every get a clearer picture of their relationship. She claims they were bf/gf but is there any information out there showing MR denies it? If he denies it, he basically used TLM for sex, drugs and a partner in crime. All just my opinion.

I never did buy that "he was her boyfriend" line ... she didn't seem like the type he would attach himself to as "boyfriend material" but okay for an occasional romp so it seems. I wonder if perhaps subconsciously she knew that, and that is why she didn't call him ... just figured it was a one-night stand and didn't want to embarrass herself by chasing him for more. It appears that she was quite in awe of him and his "marvelous" life and likely couldn't believe her good luck when he came around again on his own ... hence her mama's entry in the phone "TzGuy". Of course, the realization that he was seriously into young girls must have ticked her off ... to be passed over in favour of a child must have been humiliating. JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

He raped a child and went on to date another woman almost immediately afterwards and he likely didn't stop at the newer woman either. There is no word for the person he is. Having sex with an IV user is really not even worth discussing IMO, nor is cheating on a girlfriend with someone like TLM even remotely in the same category of b@stardliness of what a child rapist is. JMO MOO MOO

I understand you're point. If you go back to my post, in that last sentence I was trying to express that it makes the act of cheating even worse, because if I were one of those women that is how I would fell.

Putting a women, multiple women, at risk for contracting AIDS, a terminal disease, is horrible though.

ETA: And I wasn't saying that we have to discuss it, I'm just saying that it is more sociopathic behavior. I think putting that many, or even "just" one woman's life in danger like that is sociopathic behavior. :moo:

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I have a feeling you are correct. MR used TLM and she was probably his girlfriend when it was convenient for him.

Are there any pics anywhere that show TLM & MR together as a couple? A lot of times new couples have pictures of themselves together.
Did they ever go out as a couple with friends?

I think having the pics enforces to the jury that they were bf/gf, as well as MR signing in to visit her at the detention center as her bf.

 

[flipflop]

Thank you FF, but it is the video I am looking for because it was shown right after the transaction record that seems to not be in the link you provided either:

12:35pm RaffertyLFP: Court sees video of Rafferty and McClintic she can't identify location seems to be motel [via Twitter]

sorry, I forgot to add that link....here it is....DATE NIGHT!!!!!

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/14/19503341.html

 

[Hello_Kitty]

That is correct.

As someone who lives in a county who's Sheriff's jails are on Amnesty International's list of human rights violators I can also say that extremely cruel jail conditions do not change the behavior of offenders. It does change how I feel about where I live, it's shameful. It's also expensive, he is constantly slapped with lawsuits.

Just to emphasize, :moo:

I don't think the possibility of being executed or even jailed would have prevented what happened to Tori. :moo: And that's all I will say about that, I just wanted to back up what you were saying about the death penalty and crime prevention, based on what I see up close when it comes to what I see as cruel and unusual punishment.

Isn't true also that most criminals think they are too smart to get caught.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

We know that MTR was purportedly as promiscuous as hell and that he had plenty of other women, so I'm guessing that this whole relationship was strictly in TLM's head. I'd call it "friends with very occasional benefits".

JMO

SBM

Judging from his social media profiles, he seems to have had a taste for certain women with a bit of class or what he perceived as class. I don't think TLM was in that category. It seems he was stringing her along so he could get Oxies and of course he had to humour her once in a while to keep her happy.