jury is out until Wednesday 21 March: general discussion thread

[Hello_Kitty]

Is that the same day MR asked her for drugs and she took him to get some from someone she knew? I've wondered why she didn't call MR after that first rendezvous? From what we have been privy to so far, MR took TLM into the country and he has sex with her, in his car that first night, within a few hours of meeting her. Maybe it wasn't consensual sex? :waitasec: Could that be why she never called him again? Maybe her phone had no money or time left on it? Obviously at that early point in the relationship, something happened to raise a red flag for TLM, as TLM didn't feel to eager to get in touch with MR right away. Could there have been some talk of his desire to abduct a little girl? Maybe he teased TLM of being "too young" for him? Too many questions, and I wonder if we will every get a clearer picture of their relationship. She claims they were bf/gf but is there any information out there showing MR denies it? If he denies it, he basically used TLM for sex, drugs and a partner in crime. All just my opinion.

Seems to me he treated her more like a sister than a gf.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Isn't true also that most criminals think they are too smart to get caught.

I don't think that MTR did, but yes I think also think that most criminals don't think they will be caught and therefore don't think they will be punished.

 

[Wondergirl]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/16/tori-stafford-tim-danson.html

^new article from today

OMG, thank-you so much for posting this article.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

What a service this man does pro-bono.

I lost it at the end of the article.

Danson has found that parents with other children cope better because they still feel they have a purpose — to raise and protect their remaining children.

Danson tells them to imagine what their murdered child would say, looking down on them in their grief.

“I say, “If Kristen, Leslie, Christopher, Holly or Tori could talk to you, you know what they would say in terms of getting on with your life.’

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/16/tori-stafford-tim-danson.html

 

[nonfictionrocks]

sorry, I forgot to add that link....here it is....DATE NIGHT!!!!!

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/14/19503341.html

Thank you again FF. This is the footage of them at the movie theatre. Was this the video they showed just after showing the bank transaction of the motel and the pictures of the Super 8 but before the pictures of TLM on the bed in the motel? The sequence does not make any sense to me. Evidence entered in as banking statement, wide shot still of motel, video at the movie theatre and then back to the motel again? Did they check into the motel and then go out to a movie. The theatre video looks to be during the day judging by the daylight just outside the doors. Was it the Crown who said it was video from the movie theatre or did someone here say it was? So many questions, sorry

 

[flipflop]

Thank you again FF. This is the footage of them at the movie theatre. Was this the video they showed just after showing the bank transaction of the motel and the pictures of the Super 8 but before the pictures of TLM on the bed in the motel? The sequence does not make any sense to me. Evidence entered in as banking statement, wide shot still of motel, video at the movie theatre and then back to the motel again? Did they check into the motel and then go out to a movie. The theatre video looks to be during the day judging by the daylight just outside the doors. Was it the Crown who said it was video from the movie theatre or did someone here say it was? So many questions, sorry

It was someone here that stated they ID'd the movie theatre as the one in woodstock IIRC

 

[nonfictionrocks]

It was someone here that stated they ID'd the movie theatre as the one in woodstock IIRC

The Crown did not enter that in as evidence showing TLM and MTR signing into the motel did they?! Did they reference it as a different date out on the town?

 

[flipflop]

The Crown did not enter that in as evidence showing TLM and MTR signing into the motel did they?! Did they reference it as a different date out on the town?

This info is below the video in the link

VIDEO: This surveillance video - shot days before Tori Stafford's abduction - shows Michael Rafferty and Terri-Lynne McClintic together on a date.


Not sure who released it, I assumed the crown did. If LE was tracking their movements prior to the crime date, Im guessing the crown did release it.

The pics of TLM in the motel on the bed was in the evidence pics.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

This info is below the video in the link

VIDEO: This surveillance video - shot days before Tori Stafford's abduction - shows Michael Rafferty and Terri-Lynne McClintic together on a date.


Not sure who released it, I assumed the crown did. If LE was tracking their movements prior to the crime date, Im guessing the crown did release it.

The pics of TLM in the motel on the bed was in the evidence pics.

So this is not the video the Crown said showed TLM and MTR checking into the Super 8, which begs the question, where is that video footage?

 

[swedie]

I never did buy that "he was her boyfriend" line ... she didn't seem like the type he would attach himself to as "boyfriend material" but okay for an occasional romp so it seems. I wonder if perhaps subconsciously she knew that, and that is why she didn't call him ... just figured it was a one-night stand and didn't want to embarrass herself by chasing him for more. It appears that she was quite in awe of him and his "marvelous" life and likely couldn't believe her good luck when he came around again on his own ... hence her mama's entry in the phone "TzGuy". Of course, the realization that he was seriously into young girls must have ticked her off ... to be passed over in favour of a child must have been humiliating. JMO

Respectfully asking about when you say she didn't seem like the type he would attach himself to as "boyfriend material", that doesn't make sense unless you personally know MR and TLM. How can anyone assume what someone is like even after reading all the information out there about the two of them, and determine who suits who for dating material? IMHO they obviously had something in common to be able to do what they did to Tori. MR and TLM both suffer from psychosis which allowed them to abduct, sexually assault and murder an innocent child.

From what we have learnt about both we found MR to be the sexual deviant one, with multiply girlfriends all at one time it seems. There has been no mention of TLM being a sexual deviant or any suggestion she even had other boyfriends. (I do believe she stated other guys never spoke nice to her, doesn't mean they were boyfriends though). MR was the mooch who took advantage of his own mother and friends, the one who couldn't hold down a job even if his life depended upon it. MR was someone who was known to have a temper and could also readily turn on the tears, as stated by many who knew him. He stole from at least one woman who trusted him and tried to provide a loving relationship. He couldn't even make that work. He put on a great front of pretending to "love children" (barf), JMO, probably to turn suspicion away from his morbid thoughts about how he really felt about children. This was more than likely a cover up in order to get closer to innocent little children. I pray no one ever trusted MR and left him alone with their children. lease:

So how does this information paint him an unlikely boyfriend for a young, pretty, sexually mature woman who had an addiction to drugs which he also seemed to enjoy? In my eyes he is certainly no handsome prince charming to look at, that's for sure. Must have been the designer clothes, the lies and smooth talking he did to attract women. All my honest opinion.:moo:

 

[flipflop]

So this is not the video the Crown said showed TLM and MTR checking into the Super 8, which begs the question, where is that video footage?

This is the 1st I have heard that there is video of the Super 8 check in???

-I have seen evidence pics of TLM at the Super 8
-I have seen raw video of TLM and MR at the desk (which looks like they are choosing what movie to have sex at.

I think somone may have assumed it was the super 8 that they were checking into, but it was the theatre.

 

[antiquegirl]

SBM

Judging from his social media profiles, he seems to have had a taste for certain women with a bit of class or what he perceived as class. I don't think TLM was in that category. It seems he was stringing her along so he could get Oxies and of course he had to humour her once in a while to keep her happy.

So, I've been wondering about all these drugs. We know that TLM was into it big time.

.James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7

McC admits to using ecstasy, marijuana, cocaine, alcohol before Woodstock

Adrian Morrow‏@AdrianMorrow

When Terri-Lynn McClintic moved to Woodstock, she started injecting oxycontin and morphine. Her mother did drugs thruout life

What about MTR? How much was he using and/or how much was he selling? When TLM got drugs for him, was it one pill? Ten? A hundred? More?

Melanie Nagy‏@NagyCBC

Crown now asking about how #rafferty used drugs.McClintic says he just "popped" them. #sl

Melanie Nagy‏@NagyCBC

McClintic says that #rafferty would come to get drugs from her a couple times a week. #sl

How many Percocets did he buy from BA in Guelph on April 8th? How many did he take right away, if any? TLM testified that he refused to give her any because she was already too stoned.

Some useful info on this drug here:

http://www.drugs.com/percocet.html

It's interesting that he was able to hide all his drug use from his last girlfriend.

JMO

 

[nonfictionrocks]

This is the 1st I have heard that there is video of the Super 8 check in???

-I have seen evidence pics of TLM at the Super 8
-I have seen raw video of TLM and MR at the desk (which looks like they are choosing what movie to have sex at.

I think somone may have assumed it was the super 8 that they were checking into, but it was the theatre.

BBM

That someone would be Randy Richmond of the LFP who, IMO is well versed in this case.

Are there any pictures of him (MTR, not Randy Richmond) with her at the motel? I know there has been speculation that she is wearing MTR's t-shirt in the shots in the room but someone here educated me to the fact that this is a designer name. I would imagine this designer could have sold many of the same t-shirts in the Woodstock and London areas alone. I wonder if it is a designer brand sold at Winners and when they went there on one of their other "dates" they bought the same shirt.

 

[Tugela]

He raped a child and went on to date another woman almost immediately afterwards and he likely didn't stop at the newer woman either. There is no word for the person he is. Having sex with an IV user is really not even worth discussing IMO, nor is cheating on a girlfriend with someone like TLM even remotely in the same category of b@stardliness of what a child rapist is. JMO MOO MOO

If he actually did those things. For now we only have her word for it.

 

[flipflop]

Respectfully asking about when you say she didn't seem like the type he would attach himself to as "boyfriend material", that doesn't make sense unless you personally know MR and TLM. How can anyone assume what someone is like even after reading all the information out there about the two of them, and determine who suits who for dating material? IMHO they obviously had something in common to be able to do what they did to Tori. MR and TLM both suffer from psychosis which allowed them to abduct, sexually assault and murder an innocent child.

From what we have learnt about both we found MR to be the sexual deviant one, with multiply girlfriends all at one time it seems. There has been no mention of TLM being a sexual deviant or any suggestion she even had other boyfriends. (I do believe she stated other guys never spoke nice to her, doesn't mean they were boyfriends though). MR was the mooch who took advantage of his own mother and friends, the one who couldn't hold down a job even if his life depended upon it. MR was someone who was known to have a temper and could also readily turn on the tears, as stated by many who knew him. He stole from at least one woman who trusted him and tried to provide a loving relationship. He couldn't even make that work. He put on a great front of pretending to "love children" (barf), JMO, probably to turn suspicion away from his morbid thoughts about how he really felt about children. This was more than likely a cover up in order to get closer to innocent little children. I pray no one ever trusted MR and left him alone with their children. lease:

So how does this information paint him an unlikely boyfriend for a young, pretty, sexually mature woman who had an addiction to drugs which he also seemed to enjoy? In my eyes he is certainly no handsome prince charming to look at, that's for sure. Must have been the designer clothes, the lies and smooth talking he did to attract women. All my honest opinion.:moo:

The horror that his ex gf's must be feeling as they follow this case, especially those with children. I get a sick feeling when I look at the pic of MR with the little girl at what looks like a wedding. The pic that I am speaking of is in this link #35.


http://s657.photobucket.com/albums/...=view&current=weddingpiocfromregcamera066.jpg

 

[Alethea Dice]

Thank you again FF. This is the footage of them at the movie theatre. Was this the video they showed just after showing the bank transaction of the motel and the pictures of the Super 8 but before the pictures of TLM on the bed in the motel? The sequence does not make any sense to me. Evidence entered in as banking statement, wide shot still of motel, video at the movie theatre and then back to the motel again? Did they check into the motel and then go out to a movie. The theatre video looks to be during the day judging by the daylight just outside the doors. Was it the Crown who said it was video from the movie theatre or did someone here say it was? So many questions, sorry

Didn't she say she couldn't identify where the video of them in the lobby was? Maybe they thought the lobby of the theatre was actually the motel.

I don't think pictures of all the evidence presented have been released to the public. The copy of her debit statement only shows from February 3rd to February 5th. Since the movie/motel date video was "shot days before Tori Stafford's abduction", it would probably have been early April, maybe late March. So that transaction would obviously not show on the same transaction record that has been provided to the public.

 

[matou]

If he actually did those things. For now we only have her word for it.

<modsnip>. For what reason do you think he would go to Guelph and Mount Forest with an 8 year old who was snatched off the street in his car? TIA

 

[matou]

I guess MR had lots of patience, he waited about 2 hours before he "allegedly" raped Tori. JMO

 

[flipflop]

Didn't she say she couldn't identify where the video of them in the lobby was? Maybe they thought the lobby of the theatre was actually the motel

.

I don't know who said it was the movie theatre. SOme think it is Super 8.

JMO If you watch this link, prior to TLM and MR approaching the counter, someone hands money to the clerk and the clerk provides something that looks like a ticket. To me this looks like a movie theatre, not a motel. TLM and MR seem to be looking at the movies that are playing in the book that was handed to them. JMO

http://en.video.canoe.tv/archive/so...-and-mcclintic-on-a-date/1508246391001/page/9

And pic#2 in this link, the front door to the super 8 has only one set of double doors. The movie theatre? doors in the video has 2 sets of double doors and a single door from the view of the camera. Therefore, it was not this particular super 8 motel.

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

 

[beach]

:lurk:

 

[JayFriend]

<modsnip>

I don't know who said it was the movie theatre. SOme think it is Super 8.

JMO If you watch this link, prior to TLM and MR approaching the counter, someone hands money to the clerk and the clerk provides something that looks like a ticket. To me this looks like a movie theatre, not a motel. TLM and MR seem to be looking at the movies that are playing in the book that was handed to them. JMO

http://en.video.canoe.tv/archive/so...-and-mcclintic-on-a-date/1508246391001/page/9

It's The Gallery Cinemas in Woodstock. Can't remember who mentioned it (Dilbert? I have a feeling he's local). It TLM didn't recognize the location, it's probably because of the camera angle. There's only one movie theatre in Woodstock now. http://gallerycinemas.com/