GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[texaslb218]

I hope I am not stepping on a previous post. This defense lawyer obviously does not know what can and can not be done by the schools to force parents. Speaking from years of experience with discipline issues, the school can not put the student out on the curb. The school can refer to their campus SRO or call police. But the parents can not be forced to come to the school nor take their student from the school.

 

[RickshawFan]

Ya think?

'Jennifer Crumbley tells cops after Oxford shooting: 'I really wish we'd have taken him home'​

Even if JC took EC home on 11-30 it was no guarantee that he wouldn't have carried out his pure evil plan another day.
She would have had to have a "Come to Jesus moment" realizing just how mentally depraved and sick he was and had gotten him somewhere like yesterday to be evaluated along with finally taking responsibilty for her/his role as parents who have been neglecting his mental and emotional issues/needs for an obvious very long time.
We're talking years and years of individual and family therapy with no guarantees of a positive end-game.

Jennifer Crumbley tells cops after Oxford shooting: 'I really wish we'd have taken him home'

A video was shown during testimony Monday of Jennifer and her husband James meeting with police just hours after the shooting.

www.detroitnews.com

Even if she had “taken him home”, it’s not like she would have changed the status quo. I doubt she would have got him help (she never got him health insurance on her work policy, so I don’t believe he had any medical visits of any kind), she might have thought it was funny, didn’t take any of it seriously….

 

[Izzylizzy]

As I predicted state’s case is getting shakier by the day. The Dean just said if he had known that EC was a threat to himself or others he would’ve raised the threat level. The 10,000 dollar question is, the parents didn’t have any indications of that either, did they? Hallucinations do not indicate suicidality or homicidality. How can the parents be negligent if they had no indication he was going to do this prior to the shooting?

JMO

The parents had all the indications needed as shown in text evidence yet they chose to ignore it, including conveniently not connecting the dots from the drawing and what EC wrote on it to the very mentally disturbed son who they lived with.
Why do you think that neither parent informed the school counselor and dean that just 4 days ago they gave EC a gun that resembles the gun he drew?,

 

[Weki]

So Smith asked the judge to take a break before starting her cross cause it was going to be lengthy and yet she finished cross in 10 minutes?? Lol, Ma’am???

 

[Weki]

The parents had all the indications needed as shown in text evidence yet they chose to ignore it, including conveniently not connecting the dots from the drawing and what EC wrote on it to the very mentally disturbed son who they lived with.
Why do you think that neither parent informed the school counselor and dean that just 4 days ago they gave EC a gun that resembles the gun he drew?,

I don’t really think it’s productive to argue back and forth about it. From your comments it seems you believe they had indication that he was going to do this and they are guilty as charged. That’s perfectly reasonable.

I’m commenting from my perspective as the evidence comes in.

 

[RickshawFan]

Wow Dean says there are students who post pics with guns in their homecoming pictures. There are also students who go hunting before coming to school in the morning. So seeing guns and talks of guns was not cause for alarm at the school. Wow. Also says it’s not uncommon for students to draw guns on school work.

Interesting.

Edited to clarify - I don’t think he was saying students bring guns to school. He specifically said if he knew EC had a gun that day on him at school he would’ve been alarmed.

The part about drawing guns on art work and how common it is seems totally true to me. This is why I got so confused about this case from the get-go. (After seeing how his parents treated the child, I now understand how this murder came about.) Why? Young children in this country were regularly given toy guns to play “cowboys and indians”, so gun iconography in childhood has been there for decades. Now, kids have more exposure to real weapons, so no doubt the sketch details are more specific, but it’s not like children’s mental pre-occupation with weapons is unusual.

Poor Ethan grew up in a cesspool of uncaring. IMO the counselor had a clue, and that’s why he handled the situation the way he did (though we can easily fault him in hindsight). His home situation, with that degree of isolation, would have made many people psychotic. Ethan was needy, because actually humans have needs. His parents took the “needy” word and ran with it, as though it was some gross flaw.

 

[MrsWatson]

I grew up in Michigan. Michigan is a big hunting/camping/outdoor state. When I was in school 100 years ago, about 45 miles from Oxford, it was not unusual at all for lots of boys to miss the first day of deer hunting season. I don't find the guns talk/drawings in school all that unusual. I do think Ethan's drawing and words on the math handout on the day of the shooting were above and beyond normal, though. jmo

 

[Izzylizzy]

What I find interesting is that EC had a very good attendance record and pretty good grades, none failing.
Were the parents so strict with dire consequences that EC showed up every day and got decent grades?
Or did he hate his home and home life so much that school had been his refuge?
Or:
EC just liked school and learning?

A recent fight was mentioned with parents about the time he was spending on videos and his grade(s) had slipped.
Was that what JC's morning after "Xanex" texts with James was about?

 

[RickshawFan]

What I find interesting is that EC had a very good attendance record and pretty good grades, none failing.
Were the parents so strict with dire consequences that EC showed up every day and got decent grades?
Or did he hate his home and home life so much that school had been his refuge?
Or:
EC just liked school and learning?

A recent fight was mentioned with parents about the time he was spending on videos and his grade(s) had slipped.
Was that what JC's morning after "Xanex" texts with James was about?

IMO #2. I see no way you’d get good grades under these home circumstances, so I’d guess he had a need to be in school; definitely his need for other people in his life is obvious from his messages re his friend leaving.

Why didn’t Ethan run away?

 

[Izzylizzy]

IMO #2. I see no way you’d get good grades under these home circumstances, so I’d guess he had a need to be in school; definitely his need for other people in his life is obvious from his messages re his friend leaving.

Why didn’t Ethan run away?

EC appeared to be able to compartmentalize his life and plans.

 

[Weki]

Wow the shooter’s bedroom looks HECTIC! A complete mess! This is indicative of no adults in the house imo.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Wow the shooter’s bedroom looks HECTIC! A complete mess! This is indicative of no adults in the house imo.

Where are you seeing the photos?
Law & Crime isn't showing them./
Thanks!

 

[CHEL]

Where are you seeing the photos?
Law & Crime isn't showing them./
Thanks!

Fox 2 Detroit on Youtube

 

[Weki]

Where are you seeing the photos?
Law & Crime isn't showing them./
Thanks!

Fox2 Detroit

 

[Izzylizzy]

Fox2 Detroit

Thank You!
video

LIVE UPDATES: Jennifer Crumbley's trial resumes Tuesday

Evidence presented Monday included video of the Crumbley parents learning that their son was the school shooter, along with video of the shooter's first police interview.

www.fox2detroit.com

 

[Weki]

Wow an empty bottle of whisky just chillin by EC’s bed! Kinda odd for a 15 yo but maybe he was using it for something else. But now I’m wondering about those texts between James and Jennifer saying he was hungover!

 

[Izzylizzy]

Was a toxicology report performed on EC?

 

[Puzzles]

Poor Ethan grew up in a cesspool of uncaring. IMO the counselor had a clue, and that’s why he handled the situation the way he did (though we can easily fault him in hindsight). His home situation, with that degree of isolation, would have made many people psychotic. Ethan was needy, because actually humans have needs. His parents took the “needy” word and ran with it, as though it was some gross flaw.

Snipped for focus and bolded by me.

With deep respect for the agony experienced by the families and friends of the murdered and injured children, I question the decision to lock up the shooter for the rest of his life with no chance of parole.

I understand a sentence of life without parole is considered necessary to protect outer society from further harm at the hands of the prisoner. I acknowledge the idea that harsh sentences might sometimes serve as a deterrent for other potential criminals. I understand the desire to punish harsh crimes with harsh sentences for the perpetrator.

Please know that I can’t muster any patience with adult criminals who attempt to blame or justify their behaviour on ugly childhood experiences.

But, in my opinion, this case we are following is different: EC was still a child when he murdered four fellow students.

And from what we are learning through the current trial of JC, I sense this “oopsie baby” has already been punished for years simply for having been born.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Snipped for focus and bolded by me.

With deep respect for the agony experienced by the families and friends of the murdered and injured children, I question the decision to lock up the shooter for the rest of his life with no chance of parole.

I understand a sentence of life without parole is considered necessary to protect outer society from further harm at the hands of the prisoner. I acknowledge the idea that harsh sentences might sometimes serve as a deterrent for other potential criminals. I understand the desire to punish harsh crimes with harsh sentences for the perpetrator.

Please know that I can’t muster any patience with adult criminals who attempt to blame or justify their behaviour on ugly childhood experiences.

But, in my opinion, this case we are following is different: EC was still a child when he murdered four fellow students.

And from what we are learning through the current trial of JC, I sense this “oopsie baby” has already been punished for years simply for having been born.

Some background.

Juvenile Life Without Parole: An Overview​

By Joshua Rovner
April 7, 2023
The United States stands alone as the only nation that sentences people to life without parole for crimes committed before turning 18. This briefing paper reviews the Supreme Court precedents that limit the use of juvenile life without parole (JLWOP) and the challenges that remain to its abolition.'

Related to: Youth Justice, Sentencing Reform

Juvenile Life Without Parole: An Overview – The Sentencing Project

The United States stands alone as the only nation that sentences people to life without parole for crimes committed before turning 18.

www.sentencingproject.org

 

[Weki]

I agree that under 18 yos shouldn’t get LWOP. I think the problem is that the victims are also children and there are multiple. The frequency of this type of crime and the public outrage will not allow any leniency for these young terrorists. And I’m not sure that we should be lenient for this type of crime as the frequency has increased over the last decade. We’re living in precarious times. JMO