MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #4 - Chauvin Trial Day 1

[MsBetsy]

It's hard to draw any conclusion on day one with only the full testimonies of two witnesses.
The defense hasn't even come close to calling their witnesses yet.

The video is hard to watch, no doubt, however, I think it would be hard in a fair trial with less publicity to actually prove that Chauvin intended for Floyd to die. There hasn't been one death in Mlps as a result from a neck hold, it was part of the training, and although it wouldn't have to be proven, what would his motive be?

I agree with those that say Chauvin has an ego problem and wanted to play boss, and I think he wanted to teach Floyd that the more you yell, the harder I press, so shut up, but I doubt it was intentional homicide. He would have been charged with Murder one if the state thought it was imo.

I don't think they have to prove that Chauvin intended Floyd to die for second degree murder. That he used unnecessary excessive force might be enough, especially if they can show it caused physical harm and contributed to his death. Imo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Here's Minnesota 's 3rd degree murder statute that Chauvin is also charged with.

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

 

[Deleted member 39678]

And one more. Manslaughter - 2nd degree.

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

 

[margarita25]

I think that some came to a conclusion on Chauvin's guilt before this trial even started. They watched the video and that's all they need.

Myself, I need more than the video. I hope the jury in this case is of like mind. JMO

(raises hand, which is why I’m thankfully not on the jury and never would be. At least I‘m honest lol)

I’ll admit it. That video is all I need to see. GF was unresponsive when they loaded him on the stretcher. He was alive under DC’s knee, and he died under his knee, gasping for air saying he was dying and that he couldn’t breathe - that can not be disputed. Everyone who was there saw him dying and called it out as it was happening. Drugs in his system or not, that video shows someone being asphyxiated/blood flow cut off, and then dead, plain and simple imo. It will be interesting to see how, even with GF’s medical issues and positive toxicology, they can say his death was not a result of the knee: one thing I don’t think they can say is that that there is no way the knee could have caused the death, which will be the fall of the defense. Jmo

 

[shotgun09]

Along with watching the sickening, gut-wrenching knee on the neck and last breath of life video, I also saw for the first time today how strong and vehement Mr Floyd was about not getting into the squad car. Three LE could not control the man. He was in and out of there in a minute or two. That is some super-human strength. That is also Meth gone wild. It happens. Ask your local EMS or ER doctors. I am not suggesting that Chauvin is not guilty yet, I am searching for a reason why this happened. And the trial has just begun

 

[Deleted member 39678]

For the jury to find Chauvin guilty of murder in the second degree, the state must prove that "while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense" he killed George Floyd. See link above.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Wow, what a powerful first day that was. The 911 operator was strong in that she had a WHOA moment and for the first time ever called her superior on what she was seeing.

And then the stars aligned with having an MMA/wrestler to put into words how cutting off blood flow circulation at the neck (and trying to analogize it to a specific hold... not that it WAS that hold) can make someone pass out and then die by cutting off cardiopulmonary blood flow .

 

[Deleted member 39678]

For third degree murder the state has to prove that Chauvin
"evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life".

Depraved mind murder (or depraved heart murder as it is sometimes referred to) is a type of third-degree murder in Minnesota. Minnesota’s statute for depraved mind murder reads, “whoever, without intent…causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life…” is guilty of depraved mind murder. ¹ Charging a person with depraved mind murder relies on the assumption that there are reckless acts so dangerous that a person should be charged with murder if another person dies while you are engaging in them.

Depraved Mind and Felony Murder: Accident or Evil Intent?

 

[Rocky1]

I don't think they have to prove that Chauvin intended Floyd to die for second degree murder. That he used unnecessary excessive force might be enough, especially if they can show it caused physical harm and contributed to his death. Imo

In some states you are right, but in Minnesota, Second Degree Murder has to be intentional unless it's a drive-by shooting, someone is murdered after a retraining order has been issued, or during the commission of a Felony.
(Statute 609.19 Subsection 1)


Chauvin has also being tried for Third Degree Murder, which to me anyway, is absurd.
Third Degree Murder in Minnesota, means Chauvin would have had to perpetrate an act in a way that was eminently dangerous to others.
(statute 609.195)

 

[margarita25]

Do we know if DC will be getting on the stand? Do we have any idea of a ballpark figure as to how long this trial is expected to last?

 

[Rocky1]

I have no doubt that **** WILL hit the fan if there is an acquittal. That you can count on. But I don’t think an acquittal will happen. I’m laying the wager down now-it ain’t happenin, JMO.

I agree. I think the fix is in, but I think as stated before, unless somehow Chauvin gets the death penalty by hanging in the town square, we'll see everything hitting the fan regardless of the sentence. !0 years won't be enough, nor will 30. As I stated before, I expect the riots to start on the last day of trial come sundown. All MOO, and I hope I am wrong.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but asphyxiation is induced via lungs. Some-sort of “blood choke” means we would have had a brain-dead victim, or one who suffered a various form of stroke — due to the cut off blood flow. This is opposite of what the autopsy shows, right?

 

[Rocky1]

Do we know if DC will be getting on the stand? Do we have any idea of a ballpark figure as to how long this trial is expected to last?

I may be wrong, and someone correct me if I am, but I read somewhere that this trial may last a month.
Chauvin does not have to testify, but IMO if he expects to get any love from this jury, he should.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

In some states you are right, but in Minnesota, Second Degree Murder has to be intentional unless it's a drive-by shooting, someone is murdered after a retraining order has been issued, or during the commission of a Felony.
(Statute 609.19 Subsection 1)


Chauvin has also being tried for Third Degree Murder, which to me anyway, is absurd.
Third Degree Murder in Minnesota, means Chauvin would have had to perpetrate an act in a way that was eminently dangerous to others.
(statute 609.195)

Judge Peter Cahill on Thursday granted prosecutors' motion to reinstate the third-degree murder charge, which would require a lower standard of proof than second-degree. In order to convict Chauvin of second-degree murder, prosecutors would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd's death while committing or attempting to commit a related felony, in this case third-degree assault.

To win a conviction on third-degree murder, prosecutors would need to prove that Chauvin caused Floyd's death in an act that is "eminently dangerous" to others.

Judge reinstates third-degree murder charge against Derek Chauvin in death of George Floyd

 

[MsBetsy]

It's hard to draw any conclusion on day one with only the full testimonies of two witnesses.
The

In some states you are right, but in Minnesota, Second Degree Murder has to be intentional unless it's a drive-by shooting, someone is murdered after a retraining order has been issued, or during the commission of a Felony.
(Statute 609.19 Subsection 1)


Chauvin has also being tried for Third Degree Murder, which to me anyway, is absurd.
Third Degree Murder in Minnesota, means Chauvin would have had to perpetrate an act in a way that was eminently dangerous to others.
(statute 609.195)

I thought in Minnesota second degree murder is intentional "or" unintentional murder, which occurs during an underlying felony. Which in this case would be assault?

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

All my opinion
The defense is going to embarrass this mma witness. Even more so with a full night to prepare. He’s going to get ask technical questions about chokes that the witness will attempt, but not be able to, answer. He’s going to prove a point that this witness shouldn’t have been able to testify on technicalities of choke holds as the defense argued pre trial. The witness seems to volunteer way more than what has been asked and it will work against him during cross.

 

[margarita25]

I agree. I think the fix is in, but I think as stated before, unless somehow Chauvin gets the death penalty by hanging in the town square, we'll see everything hitting the fan regardless of the sentence. !0 years won't be enough, nor will 30. As I stated before, I expect the riots to start on the last day of trial come sundown. All MOO, and I hope I am wrong.

If DC is found guilty on all the charges and receives the maximum penalty permitted by State law, then I don’t think there will be any rioting, even if some feel the sentence should be longer - in other words, if he is held accountable to the maximum extent of the law, and the words “guilty” are read, then I don’t expect unrest, even if there is disappointment as to the extent of the maximum allowed sentence. However, if the two words “not guilty” are spoken, I think there will be unrest. Now, if there is a mixed verdict, guilty of third degree but not second, for example, this may also cause some unrest, we will see. I think a large number of people want to see full accountability here.

All my opinion
The defense is going to embarrass this mma witness. Even more so with a full night to prepare. He’s going to get ask technical questions about chokes that the witness will attempt, but not be able to, answer. He’s going to prove a point that this witness shouldn’t have been able to testify on technicalities of choke holds as the defense argued pre trial. The witness seems to volunteer way more than what has been asked and it will work against him during cross.

Even if this does happen, I don’t think it will make a big difference or affect the solidity of the prosecution‘s case. But as I stated earlier, he is a professional MMA fighter, if anyone knows about choke holds, it’s him, no matter by which name the maneuver is referred. Jmo.

 

[MsBetsy]

My post got messed up but all this time I thought second degree murder in Minnesota can be intentional or unintentional, when the murder occurs while the defendant is committing an underlying felony, which in this case would be assault?

If this is not the case then does the prosecution have to prove intent? I thought that was only for first degree murder.

 

[Rocky1]

Judge Peter Cahill on Thursday granted prosecutors' motion to reinstate the third-degree murder charge, which would require a lower standard of proof than second-degree. In order to convict Chauvin of second-degree murder, prosecutors would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd's death while committing or attempting to commit a related felony, in this case third-degree assault.

To win a conviction on third-degree murder, prosecutors would need to prove that Chauvin caused Floyd's death in an act that is "eminently dangerous" to others.

Judge reinstates third-degree murder charge against Derek Chauvin in death of George Floyd

True, and as I stated above, I think that the third degree murder charges are absurd.
Just another reason why I think the fix is in. IMO, that's nothing but an insurance policy to make sure Chauvin doesn't skate away clean.