MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #4 - Chauvin Trial Day 1

[Rocky1]

My post got messed up but all this time I thought second degree murder in Minnesota can be intentional or unintentional, when the murder occurs while the the defendant is committing an underlying felony, which in this case would be assault?

That all depends on which type of assault.
"Simple Assault" is a misdemeanor. (ie punching someone or kneeling on their neck)
"Aggravated Assault" (ie holding a gun to someone's head) is a Felony.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

My post got messed up but all this time I thought second degree murder in Minnesota can be intentional or unintentional, when the murder occurs while the defendant is committing an underlying felony, which in this case would be assault?

If this is not the case then does the prosecution have to prove intent? I thought that was only for first degree murder.

He is charged with second degree unintentional.

Chauvin, who is white, is charged with second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter in the death of Floyd, a Black man.

I'm glad that the author of this article made sure we know what race the defendant and the victim are.

Trial Day One: 'Mr. Derek Chauvin Betrayed This Badge'

 

[margarita25]

So, IF he is found guilty, and is sent to prison, will he be subject to incarceration in general population, or will they put him in seclusion because of the high profile/fact he is a police officer? We know he likely won’t last long in general pop as a cop, especially the one who killed George Floyd.

 

[MsBetsy]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but asphyxiation is induced via lungs. Some-sort of “blood choke” means we would have had a brain-dead victim, or one who suffered a various form of stroke — due to the cut off blood flow. This is opposite of what the autopsy shows, right?

Asphyxiation occurs when the brain doesn't get enough oxygen. If Floyd had no pulse and then Chauvin kept restricting his airways for another 2 or 3 minutes, that might have been enough to cause permanent brain damage or death. Imo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Asphyxiation occurs when the brain doesn't get enough oxygen. If Floyd had no pulse and then Chauvin kept restricting his airways for another 2 or 3 minutes, that might have been enough to cause permanent brain damage or death. Imo

What is asphyxiation?

When a person breathes normally, they take oxygen into their lungs. The lungs then pass the oxygen into the bloodstream, where it passes into the tissues of the body.

Anoxia is the technical term for a lack of oxygen. If the brain does not get enough oxygen, it can cause a person to lose consciousness in seconds. If a person does not receive any oxygen within a few minutes, irreversible brain damage or death may occur.

Asphyxiation: Definition, causes, treatment, and more

 

[Rocky1]

All my opinion
The defense is going to embarrass this mma witness. Even more so with a full night to prepare. He’s going to get ask technical questions about chokes that the witness will attempt, but not be able to, answer. He’s going to prove a point that this witness shouldn’t have been able to testify on technicalities of choke holds as the defense argued pre trial. The witness seems to volunteer way more than what has been asked and it will work against him during cross.

I agree. Tomorrow we should see just how good this defense attorney is. Today he kept his mouth shut as far as objections went while IMO he was building his Spider Web.

 

[MsBetsy]

That all depends on which type of assault.
"Simple Assault" is a misdemeanor. (ie punching someone or kneeling on their neck)
"Aggravated Assault" (ie holding a gun to someone's head) is a Felony.

Well, yes, I meant third degree assault. If an officer can be convicted of felony assault or battery for using excessive force during an arrest, I don't see why they couldn't be found guilty of murder if the person dies as a result. Otherwise why are they even charging him with second degree murder?

 

[CrimeAway]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but asphyxiation is induced via lungs. Some-sort of “blood choke” means we would have had a brain-dead victim, or one who suffered a various form of stroke — due to the cut off blood flow. This is opposite of what the autopsy shows, right?

I do not know about the autopsy findings, but IMO asphyxia is a lack of oxygen to the body. Compressive force to the neck can occlude or block the carotid arteries and/or veins, interrupting the delivery of oxygen to (and removal of Co2) from the brain. After several minutes, this will cause cell dysfunction, and cell death, which obviously can be irreversible.

Asphyxia - Wikipedia

 

[margarita25]

Here’s one thing I don’t think the defense can prove/say, that GF would have been dead anyway at that exact moment due to tox or health conditions. They can’t say that even if DC hadn’t kneed him, he would’ve been dead anyway at that exact moment. Hope this makes sense. Timing of his death is of crucial importance.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I may be wrong, and someone correct me if I am, but I read somewhere that this trial may last a month.
Chauvin does not have to testify, but IMO if he expects to get any love from this jury, he should.

I looked earlier today and couldn't find a link that stated how long the trial is expected to last.

He may have been better off asking for a bench trial and not have to worry if the jury has any love for him. I doubt they will even if he gets on the stand. Too late for that now. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

He is charged with second degree unintentional.

I'm glad that the author of this article made sure we know what race the defendant and the victim are.

Trial Day One: 'Mr. Derek Chauvin Betrayed This Badge'

So they don't have to show that he used excessive force or that it was an assault? I thought prosecutors were claiming the underlying felony was assault, and that Floyd was killed while the officers were committing or "trying to commit" third degree assault.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

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Although it’s always tough to watch the video, it’s worth noting at the 39:50+ mark, GF was already remarking that he was having trouble breathing. The whole video itself is worth watching as a refresher due to the ongoing trial.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Here’s one thing I don’t think the defense can prove/say, that GF would have been dead anyway at that exact moment due to tox or health conditions. They can’t say that even if DC hadn’t kneed him, he would’ve been dead anyway at that exact moment. Hope this makes sense. Timing of his death is of crucial importance.

In my opinion the defense doesn't have to prove or even say that George Floyd would have died anyway from the drugs in his system combined with his heath conditions.

The excitement of being arrested, handcuffed and the attempted placement into the police vehicle may have contributed to his death. Afterwards the kneeling on his neck may have too. I'm not sure.

Is there reasonable doubt as to the cause of death? Maybe. JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

So they don't have to show that he used excessive force or that it was an assault? I thought prosecutors were claiming the underlying felony was assault, and that Floyd was killed while the officers were committing or "trying to commit" third degree assault.

I don't know where you got that from. Is it something I said?

 

[MsBetsy]

I looked earlier today and couldn't find a link that stated how long the trial is expected to last.

He may have been better off asking for a bench trial and not have to worry if the jury has any love for him. I doubt they will even if he gets on the stand. Too late for that now. JMO

I thought I read the trial is expected to last "a few weeks." Which I guess means about three weeks or more.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I thought I read the trial is expected to last "a few weeks." Which I guess means about three weeks or more.

That sounds reasonable.

 

[Sillybilly]

Here’s one thing I don’t think the defense can prove/say, that GF would have been dead anyway at that exact moment due to tox or health conditions. They can’t say that even if DC hadn’t kneed him, he would’ve been dead anyway at that exact moment. Hope this makes sense. Timing of his death is of crucial importance.

As per Laura Coates on CNN, all they have to prove is that Chauvin's action was a "substantial causal factor", not that it was the only factor.

https://twitter.com/thelauracoates/status/1376536703427620864

CNN also had Neil Franklin, former federal prosecutor who has (paraphrased) also led training for many LE departments in Maryland, is familiar with national standards for use of force, and nothing like this has ever been trained in any police department that he knows of. He can't foresee that any expert in use of force could testify that this was just regular police training.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't know where you got that from. Is it something I said?

No, not at all. I just feel like I keep asking and still can't find an answer. I thought for sure I read they had to prove assault, or were claiming that Floyd died while the officers were committing or trying to commit 3rd degree assault, but I could be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

As per Laura Coates on CNN, all they have to prove is that Chauvin's action was a "substantial causal factor", not that it was the only factor.

https://twitter.com/thelauracoates/status/1376536703427620864

CNN also had Neil Franklin, former federal prosecutor who has (paraphrased) also led training for many LE departments in Maryland, is familiar with national standards for use of force, and nothing like this has ever been trained in any police department that he knows of. He can't foresee that any expert in use of force could testify that this was just regular police training.

Substantial factor. That leaves a lot of room for reasonable doubt to me if the defense can show the multiple drugs and health factors to the jury. JMO

 

[angelainwi]

Through out jury selection they mentioned the trial lasting around 4 weeks