MN MN - Madeline Jane Kingsbury, 26, mother of 2, Winona 31 Mar 2023

[cheko1]

Very telling, IMHO.

To anyone who can help:
I'm not understanding the purpose of laws that focus on an ROP being used when two bio parents live with the children full-time. Would marriage have conveyed custodial rights to this father? It's good that MN law addresses parental rights but are children really more likely to be protected by these laws?

Also, if the children are in state custody, do we know if they are staying with family or with strangers (foster parents)?

TIA & MOO

JMO I would think the kids would be with family on Moms side if they're able to keep them. I don't know this for a fact.

 

[swanniee11]

Kingsbury's children in custody of Winona County Health and Human Services officials​

• Winona County Health and Human Services officials have custody of Maddi's children.
• Earlier this month, the Winona Police Department notified County Health and Human Services that a 72-hour hold would be placed on the children.
• Adam Fravel does not have custody, which meant the kids had no legal decision-maker in their mother’s absence.
• The children were located at Fravel’s parents’ house April 4 when law enforcement and social workers enacted the 72-hour hold.
• The child in need of protective services petition, filed April 6, states Fravel eventually brought the children outside to the vehicle.
• “Father was unwilling to gather belongs for the children therefore the children left the home with only the clothes they were wearing,” the court filing states.
• Winona County Health and Human Services will determine the access Fravel and family members have to the children.
• A pretrial date is set for May 15 with the children’s custody trial set to be June 6-7.

What a ....! If he's innocent why not provide what the kids need until this is figured out? Why not give them stuff that would make them more at ease. What a.... IMO

 

[hparker36]

What a ....! If he's innocent why not provide what the kids need until this is figured out? Why not give them stuff that would make them more at ease. What a.... IMO

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Knox]

Winona County Emergency Management​

Today Wisconsin K9 SOS Search and Rescue Iowa SAR K9 K9 Search Midwest MNWI K-9 SAR joined Goodview Fire and Rescue, Winona Fire Department Winona County Sheriff's Office's SOAR Team and Dive Rescue Team in searching for Madeline Kingsbury.

This is just one of multiple search operations conducted this week with our public safety partners.

We will continue our search operations and working with Finding Madeline Kingsbury.

We encourage the public to continue checking your properties and being alert when out hiking, hunting, and fishing.
If you would like to report areas you have searched you can email them to [email protected]

 

[JennieM]

What a ....! If he's innocent why not provide what the kids need until this is figured out? Why not give them stuff that would make them more at ease. What a.... IMO

I think it was to make it awkward for SS and to deter them from taking the children. Also maybe thinking SS wouldn't keep the children away for long if they did not have much with them, but yes it's not putting the children's needs first, that's for sure!

 

[JennieM]

Winona is about an hour drive from Mayo Clinic- Rochester. During covid, many non-direct patient care positions were moved to telework (working from home). With two small children and living in Winona, a commute that long every day would be tedious. I used to make that commute 3+ times a week before I even had kids and it wasn't great.

I thought about this drive often and how very hard she worked for her family

 

[rescuemom]

Refer to this post for plane info possibly related to AF. MN - MN - Madeline Jane Kingsbury, 26, mother of 2, Winona 31 Mar 2023

Refer to this post regarding filing of flight plans: MN - MN - Madeline Jane Kingsbury, 26, mother of 2, Winona 31 Mar 2023

You can check FAA pilot records by name here: https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/main.aspx

thanks

 

[Family_trees]

Do we know why LE is focusing part of their efforts in/near Buffalo, WI?

Winona, MN is on the Mississippi river. Buffalo is across the river from Winona

 

[musicaljoke]

I think it was to make it awkward for SS and to deter them from taking the children. Also maybe thinking SS wouldn't keep the children away for long if they did not have much with them, but yes it's not putting the children's needs first, that's for sure!

Absolutely. The kids are only 2 and 5 yrs old. When our 2-yr old grandchild lost his beloved duckie in the McDonald's parking lot, three hours away from home, his dad went all the way back and shovelled through the snow and until he found it. Little kids will cry and cry without their snuffies, and without their mommy in a strange place.

 

[youarentsilly]

O/T
I'm curious about this whole situation with the father not having custody. If anyone would care to answer, I have a question for discussion.

If we knew the baby daddy was innocent in this case - let's say he was in London (far away, where the whole city is on CCTV) at a conference with LE professionals (many reliable witnesses). Would you still feel like the kids should be taken away from him?

 

[youarentsilly]

I'm not an Attorney, nor am I privy to why DHS feels the children are in danger with Adam Fravel - is that a rhetorical question?

To me, it's reasonable to remove the children until the custody issues are resolved in court. Notwithstanding, he very likely killed their Mother, IMO. Why risk the children's safety at this point in time?

Sorry, my question wasn't clear.

You provided some helpful information about the custody including a quote that said "An injurious or dangerous environment may include, but is not limited to, the exposure of the children to criminal activity in the children's home."

I was asking whether the criminal activity is proven, in which case it must not be related to the Madeline's disappearance, or if that's an allegation? I'm not sure if you'd be able to know that but I found it unlikely that they could cite Madeline's disappearance as criminal activity related to the baby daddy. I know the majority (of WSers, anyway) think that is the case but I would hope that the courts need more than popular opinion to take actions and make decisions in custody cases.

 

[MyJoey]

Maddi Kingsbury update: Mom was looking for another place to live before disappearance, sister says
Thought this was interesting, just the way it’s worded.

 

[Knox]

Police said they are now processing all the evidence for clues, including the minivan, Maddi's home and the jacket she was wearing that morning.

Maddi Kingsbury update: Mom was looking for another place to live before disappearance, sister says

Missing Winona mom Madeline Kingsbury lived with Adam Fravel, the father of her children, but was no longer in relationship with him, her sister said.

abc7news.com

Basically a repeat of everything we already know - except the BBM. I haven't seen that mentioned before.

 

[Knox]

Sorry, my question wasn't clear.

You provided some helpful information about the custody including a quote that said "An injurious or dangerous environment may include, but is not limited to, the exposure of the children to criminal activity in the children's home."

I was asking whether the criminal activity is proven, in which case it must not be related to the Madeline's disappearance, or if that's an allegation? I'm not sure if you'd be able to know that but I found it unlikely that they could cite Madeline's disappearance as criminal activity related to the baby daddy. I know the majority (of WSers, anyway) think that is the case but I would hope that the courts need more than popular opinion to take actions and make decisions in custody cases.

Thank you for clarifying. I share your views on DHS/CPS generally. No one wants a government agency with overly broad powers, but in this case - I fear his recent reaction in the exchange with DHS could indicate the children would be in danger if left with him.

Let's say LE comes to arrest him for Maddi's murder and he is home with the kids. Would he potentially try to commit suicide and take the kids with him? Or, not even in an arrest situation, could he become despondant and see no other way to escape what he knows is coming? I know this is sort of skirting what you said above, but I'm specifically speaking to this case and the circumstances which I feel are valid.

Regarding the criminal activity - he has a very old (2013) charge for receiving stolen property in WI. Outside of that he's squeaky clean. Could he be involved in a criminal currently? Your guess is an good as mine, but he doesn't seem to be employed.

 

[youarentsilly]

Thank you for clarifying. I share your views on DHS/CPS generally. No one wants a government agency with overly broad powers, but in this case - I fear his recent reaction in the exchange with DHS could indicate the children would be in danger if left with him.

Let's say LE comes to arrest him for Maddi's murder and he is home with the kids. Would he potentially try to commit suicide and take the kids with him? Or, not even in an arrest situation, could he become despondant and see no other way to escape what he knows is coming? I know this is sort of skirting what you said above, but I'm specifically speaking to this case and the circumstances which I feel are valid.

Regarding the criminal activity - he has a very old (2013) charge for receiving stolen property in WI. Outside of that he's squeaky clean. Could he be involved in a criminal currently? Your guess is an good as mine, but he doesn't seem to be employed.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the insights.

 

[Knox]

O/T
I'm curious about this whole situation with the father not having custody. If anyone would care to answer, I have a question for discussion.

If we knew the baby daddy was innocent in this case - let's say he was in London (far away, where the whole city is on CCTV) at a conference with LE professionals (many reliable witnesses). Would you still feel like the kids should be taken away from him?

No.

 

[Erutan]

Sorry, my question wasn't clear.

You provided some helpful information about the custody including a quote that said "An injurious or dangerous environment may include, but is not limited to, the exposure of the children to criminal activity in the children's home."

I was asking whether the criminal activity is proven, in which case it must not be related to the Madeline's disappearance, or if that's an allegation? I'm not sure if you'd be able to know that but I found it unlikely that they could cite Madeline's disappearance as criminal activity related to the baby daddy. I know the majority (of WSers, anyway) think that is the case but I would hope that the courts need more than popular opinion to take actions and make decisions in custody cases.

Bbm
No, the majority of WSers' do not think this, and in any case no one can judge the entire group based on only one persons' opinion ; so we don't know this for certain.
The facts are ... that LE felt it prudent at this time to remove the children from possible harm.
The actions of AF indicate that he could very well be putting his own interests first, and although one would hope (myself included) he will not harm the little ones, locking LE and CPS out of the house, and shouting profanities indicates a person coming unhinged.
As well as the fact that the children had to leave with only the clothes on their backs, and AF didn't allow any of their belongings to go with them.
This does not bode well.
Small things, like favorite blankies and comfy pajamas can be comforting in a new house, i.e., foster care situation.
AF has not behaved like a responsible parent would and it's disheartening and chilling.
If he isn't employed, then possibly Madaline was the sole provider.
It would be helpful if AF would reveal his actions the day Madaline disappeared and let them know where he went and if he was driving her vehicle, etc.
So far it's just guesswork for LE, but I'd imagine they need to know what routes were taken ?
And iirc, no one has been cleared yet.

My opinion is that Madaline wouldn't walk away from her sister and her children, so I fear foul play.
Imo.

 

[youarentsilly]

The facts are ... that LE felt it prudent at this time to remove the children from possible harm.

This is not a fact. They removed the children because the only person with legal custody is missing.

 

[Erutan]

This is not a fact. They removed the children because the only person with legal custody is missing.

The manner in which LE is proceeding is more (imo) out of an abundance of caution.
That is why I said it was a fact, and highlighted the "removed" portion.
"Fact" as in LE wanted them out of that house and acted on that.
That the children are safe in foster care is indisputable.
I didn't say the possible harm part of the sentence was a fact.... so you may have misunderstood the sentence.
If they thought it was completely safe, they would have left the two little ones there.
"Possible harm" means may or may not, so it's a 'who knows' situation.
There are many unknowns including what the state of Madalines' relationship with AF was, exactly ?
It looked as though she was seeking another living arrangement.
So it's sad for Madaline and for her children.
Imo.

 

[cheko1]

From what I understand these are the laws for unmarried parents. If they are unmarried and never did the ROP then there is so no proof in that state of ROP. one or the other needs to get ROP so they can do the next step to to parental custody.

After the baby is born the hospitals gives the parents the ROP papers to file with the state.