MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #3

[Sheromom]

How wonderful that your kids had a man who stood by them & supported them....and from what you've shared, he still supports them.

It's sad that the vics/survivors of this case can't look for the same in their own dad.

I hope no one is blaming them for disclosing now as adults...it is terrible to be in the midst of dealing w/ one's child of yesteryear, only to be blamed for not doing something sooner.

I was in the midst of debilitating PTSD & after a year of therapy, decided to disclose to my fiance', even tho I'd read enough to know (and had always feared) that disclosing risked losing that relationship....I took the chance & what I got from him was, and I quote: "This is your fault. You could have done something about this before."

I.was.devastated. Broke up with him within days & never spoke to him again.

So with that said, my point is that it's sooooo risky to disclose. I see no reason for adults to put themselves thru the fallout of even false accusations.

It's not pretty.

Please don't take this wrong BUT.........I am so glad that awful man is out of your life!!!!

 

[IWannaKnow]

My time is limited today, so I'm not going to go back and quote all the things I want to hit on, so forgive me if this is a little jumbled. I've read every word you guys have written and I want to say - great work! Hopefully I've attributed the correct ideas to the correct person, if not I apologize ahead of time.

Suthrnqt - I'm so sorry for what happened to you. My heart breaks every time I read this kinda stuff. I was caught doing something at the babysitters which she was immediately suspicious of and notified my mother. I can remember it like it was yesterday, hiding behind the recliner listening to the conversation, shaking so hard I though I was going to fall down, couldn't breathe, so terrified that I was going to be in big trouble but sooooooo relieved that someone was going to do something about what was happening. I was happy I was going to get in trouble if it made the abuse stop. This was before I was even eligible to be in preschool. Long story short - Mom went home and reamed my father from one end to the other. He denied it - as he should have, my Dad was my rock - and once she decided to believe him, it was over. She never went any further and just assumed the babysitter was lying/hallucinating/vindictive....whatever. So they sent me to a different babysitter and shortly thereafter to preschool. This was in the 70's and the preschool had a strict policy that all students must take naps and they must nap on their stomach. I would kick, scream and punch as soon as they tried to turn me on my stomach. I got multiple time outs for it, not allowed to play at recess, etc. Finally they decided to let me fall asleep on my back then turn me over, but that wouldn't work either, as soon as they touched me I was wide awake and screaming, so next was turn me over with a yard stick of all things. When that also failed they called my parents who removed me from the school. But at no point did anyone say (except that 1st sitter) "something is not right here". Please God, I pray, that if we survivors and the people who care about us can stand up and tell our stories, eventually there will be so many that the uninitiated will no longer be able to discount us and perhaps then healing can begin. Thank you for telling part of your story. I'm so happy your Grandma saved you. God bless her.

Human - Amen! Women have been second class citizens since history began being recorded. We've come a long way, but there is so far still to go. So many men still consider us property, and our children too. Objects do not hurt, have feelings, needs, wants or deserve consideration. They are just to be used until they are used up. I'm not saying ALL men, if that were true civilization would have imploded by now, but far too many still consider themselves "the King". I consider it the God given duty of good men to open their eyes and their hearts and help stop this travesty, and one way of doing that would be to start teaching their sons that females (and children and animals) are 50% (or more) of the human population, the same as they are and are to be respected and cherished, not considered playthings for whatever whim overtakes you. For those of you who already do that, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Missizzy - You are so correct. The town you live in makes all the difference. We lived for many years in an extremely progressive town in TX, many colleges, arts, sciences, big Gay/Lesbian community. You saw all kinds of people and it was OK! I now live in far, far Northern New England and it is like another planet. The big place to go is Wal-Mart. That is where everyone goes on Saturday night. I stay in my house. I certainly wouldn't want to try to disclose in this community...

Texas Mist - I agree that religion is part of this problem, I just wasn't brave enough to say it. Typed it even and erased it. But you are absolutely correct. When I married #1, he was Church of Christ and we absolutely had to be married in his church. The preacher wanted to talk about the ceremony before hand and I wanted to know what he was going to say. Well, he was all about quoting Corinthians and the wife is under the husband and to be seen and not heard, blah, blah, blah. Well, I forced him to say the other parts of Corinthians about what the husbands duties are to his wife, and how he is supposed to care for her as God cares for the church. I can't quote it directly, but you get the gist. Boy, was #1 and the preacher upset!! But I stuck to my guns and made them say it. You could hear the a pin drop! Needless to say, the marriage didn't last :dance: I don't think that what we have turned religion(s) into are what God intended.

HenryWagler - Good thoughts and glad to have you here. We need more of you. Welcome! Stay awhile.

Finally, sorry for my long windedness (guess I have more time than I thought), but one final thought - the barbie dolls mentioned in the news article by the girl saying one of the victims babysat her and she believed her story. The description of the barbie dolls caused me some palpitations. I did the exact same thing.

 

[Missizzy]

Did anybody else notice this quote:

"Authorities have found buried remains of those jars and letters in their search of the property."

http://www.richmond-dailynews.com/news.php?id=3879

I've not seen this in print before. I'd read that shards of glass were found but not remains of jars or letters. Careless reporting or new info?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Did anybody else notice this quote:

"Authorities have found buried remains of those jars and letters in their search of the property."

http://www.richmond-dailynews.com/news.php?id=3879

I've not seen this in print before. I'd read that shards of glass were found but not remains of jars or letters. Careless reporting or new info?

I just e-mailed the reporter and asked. That would be news to me as well...last I read, it was a shard of glass.

 

[pennydawn]

I was in the midst of debilitating PTSD & after a year of therapy, decided to disclose to my fiance', even tho I'd read enough to know (and had always feared) that disclosing risked losing that relationship....I took the chance & what I got from him was, and I quote: "This is your fault. You could have done something about this before."

I.was.devastated. Broke up with him within days & never spoke to him again.

So with that said, my point is that it's sooooo risky to disclose. I see no reason for adults to put themselves thru the fallout of even false accusations.

It's not pretty.

OMG...This happened to me, too. It was as if he was saying, "Well, if it were true, why did you wait so long? You waited, so it must not have been true, after all."

I've also seen parents absolve one another of the responsibility, and that irks me, too.

 

[Missizzy]

IWannaKnow--ITA agree about the Barbie dolls. Even though I've never been much of a Barbie "person", I have always payed attention to the way my children and grandchildren play with dolls and stuffed animals. So much can be learned by just observing.

Bless your babysitter for speaking up. I just cannot believe that your caregivers at pre-school didn't notice something amiss about your sleeping habits. Once again, let's look at that. I would imagine that most of those caregivers were people who truly enjoyed working with kids. I would think that at least some of them had a good deal of experience and had seen a wide range of behaviors. Isn't it amazing that stuff like your odd reactions still got past them?

This is why I know that some people just don't realize what's happening until it hits them in the face. In hindsight, we definitely saw all the markers with our kids' abuse--nightmares, bed-wetting, clinginess, anxiety, school problems, nervousness around the abuser (but still asking to play!!!!!), strange clothes changing.

We were already very experienced parents and had attended hundreds of hours of training and we still didn't see it. We rationalized that the abuser had special needs himself and we empathized with that. We didn't totally trust him as he was slightly creepy and overly friendly and chummy. We did NOT listen to our gut feelings.

After all, his dad was a doctor and president of the Rotary Club. His mom was a teacher and librarian. We live in a nice part of town. They drove a Mercedes. The teen was studying to be an Eagle Scout. Come on....what could possibly go wrong? Oh, we were STUPID!!!!! Mea culpa.

See why it bothered me so much to learn that this young man had been kicked out of a day care where he was grabbing women's breasts and fondling their legs when he was four!! That's not normal!! We heard, after the fact, that he had creeped out numerous teachers (one reported that when she met with him, she always wanted a door left open) and neighbors (one reported that he always seemed to show up when she was nursing her baby) and coaches (nobody wanted him in team sports). But did anyone share this info in any sort of helpful way? Nope.

These people spoke out when they saw the articles in the paper. It was very different than the Mohler case. I think our community pretty much accepted that what our kids were reporting was the truth as the rapist was not a popular boy. The thing that shocked and hurt us is how our beloved school's administration changed overnight in their response to us.

The teachers and staff were highly supportive..even taking personal time off to help us in court with the kids. We had worked very closely with the principal and superintendent due to our kids' special needs and they had been most kind and responsive to our needs. The moment the details of the case broke (rapes in the school bathroom during school hours and non-student on campus working with little kids), though, we were treated like pariahs. I find it interesting that both the principal and the superintendent retired that year.

We made the very difficult decision to not bring suit against the school because we chose to stay in our house (against all recommendations) and to hang tight. The rapist's family sold their home and moved. It's been the right choice as we've gone on to have a good working relationship with the school for the last 12 years. They've been very careful to keep the rapist's mom out of every school our kids have attended.

In fact, she was quite quickly removed from their school when the case broke as she tried to talk to our kids and minimize the abuse. She was overheard by some other kids who reported it to a teacher (bless their hearts). So, just as in the Mohler case, there always some CTB activity when a case like this breaks. The two churches are acting exactly as our school administrators did. I guess it's human nature.

And by the way, I'm so glad you and Texas Mist got out of those two relationships. Life is too short to not be believed. Bless you for your strength.

 

[Missizzy]

I have a theory and it's JMO that these siblings feel as if they are in a place of safety now. Possibly, the young man feels empowered by his police training and a supportive partner. I imagine that the young women feel safe in their relationships and their partners are standing by them.

Remember the two factors people need to disclose are a sense of safety and a caring listener. We can all offer that to our friends and loved ones, everyday.

 

[cleo612]

Cleo612--I don't doubt you at all, but where are they? They seem to be taking their time getting around to circling the wagons. And please note that I can't find any official verification of a fund for David.

I still wonder how long these guys can just sit on ice waiting for representation. They have another court date in early Dec. That seems like a long time to wait without legal advice. Has anyone heard if any of them might be cooperating with LE?

I think we saw the beginning of the circling of the wagons at the last court appearance. Remember, at the first court appearance there was only one person there to support them--a cousin, I believe. It was reported that at the last court appearance there were numerous family members and friends.

 

[Texas Mist]

Please don't take this wrong BUT.........I am so glad that awful man is out of your life!!!!

No problem -- I understand where you're coming from....I loved him very much which is why it hurt, but I was done with being told that *any* thing was my fault.

OMG...This happened to me, too. It was as if he was saying, "Well, if it were true, why did you wait so long? You waited, so it must not have been true, after all."

I've also seen parents absolve one another of the responsibility, and that irks me, too.

I was afraid he'd blame me for the abuse, but he didn't...just as wrongly -- and ignorantly & coldly -- he blamed me for having the PTSD -- I was supposed to have received some magical cure or 'fix' before he came along so he didn't have to deal with my rollercoaster of emotions, complete shutdown of my own sexuality, and severe clinical depression.

It's just as well...I would have been miserable....thru therapy I came to see how I ended up with controlling men in my life.

I am soooooo done with that & now have a wonderful man who treats me like a queen (tho I haven't burdened him w/the past because I keep telling myself at this point it's somehow irrelevant).

ETA: and pennydawn, I'm sorry you weren't believed....it's the equivalent of being stabbed in the heart, IMO.

 

[Missizzy]

Yes, that's true, Cleo. I've read several comments of people who showed up at the second hearing and they've all been friends. I think the only family member who's weighed in has been DMohler from Florida. He spoke up on behalf of his Dad. Did you read of any family members who spoke to reporters? I still can't get over the fact that so many of the Mohler men are just sitting there without lawyers. Odd.

Texas Mist found some interesting facts about the Florida Mohlers. They swear that they are distanced from the Missouri Mohlers and haven't been there in decades. They both got speeding tickets in Missouri in the last few years, though. Interestingly, at the beginning of summer. I wonder if that's when "Cousins Camp" kicked off each year?

Speaking of "Cousins Camp"--I've only seen that alluded to in yesterday's article. Has anyone seen that phrase in a document? If it was truly a summer get-together for Mohler cousins, why would just three or four be chosen for horrific abuse? And wouldn't some of the cousins have seen the young girl/woman hiding in the crawlspace? Girl cousins, especially, are known for their secret sharing and midnight storytelling. I guess it's possible that the groups of sibling went at different times but then it wouldn't really be "Cousins Camp". Isn't it disgusting to take something so fun and innocent and turn it evil?

 

[IWannaKnow]

Missizzy - You were not stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You trusted your fellow man, as we are supposed to do. Were you supposed to have a crystal ball? I cannot compare your experience to mine or Suthrnqt's experience of our mothers seeing/being told directly then dismissing it. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME THING. How are you to know if it is just a developmental stage or something more? Especially in your situation. My mother was told, directly, and she did not believe or follow through. She still doesn't believe me.

I don't know what the answer is. I was not trying to imply that you were less than vigilant. I would never put you and my mother on the same playing field, you in no way deserve that. I think my mother suffered the same fate I did, and for that reason cannot/will not acknowledge what happened and even if she did, what was she going to do? She couldn't protect herself, I'm sure she didn't think she could protect me. I was angry for many years but have come to understand she has her demons as well.

I think that if you have even a suspicion that something is amiss, it should be followed up on. As you did. As my mother did not. This is a different time and we know more than we used to. Now we must begin to act upon that.

 

[IWannaKnow]

OMG...This happened to me, too. It was as if he was saying, "Well, if it were true, why did you wait so long? You waited, so it must not have been true, after all."

I've also seen parents absolve one another of the responsibility, and that irks me, too.

No problem -- I understand where you're coming from....I loved him very much which is why it hurt, but I was done with being told that *any* thing was my fault.



I was afraid he'd blame me for the abuse, but he didn't...just as wrongly -- and ignorantly & coldly -- he blamed me for having the PTSD -- I was supposed to have received some magical cure or 'fix' before he came along so he didn't have to deal with my rollercoaster of emotions, complete shutdown of my own sexuality, and severe clinical depression.

It's just as well...I would have been miserable....thru therapy I came to see how I ended up with controlling men in my life.

I am soooooo done with that & now have a wonderful man who treats me like a queen (tho I haven't burdened him w/the past because I keep telling myself at this point it's somehow irrelevant).

ETA: and pennydawn, I'm sorry you weren't believed....it's the equivalent of being stabbed in the heart, IMO.

Move over kids, let me in the club! #1 had same problem. Our landlord would come over and talk about having *intercourse* with farm animals. They would both laugh and giggle about it. That is what caused me to start recovering memories and when I told #1 that I didn't want landlord around anymore and why he laughed and said they were friends! That is when I really started planning the exit strategy. He didn't believe me at first then got angry and things went downhill fast.

Congrats Texas Mist on your wonderful man. You deserve it. You didn't need someone who felt you caused your PTSD (maybe our ex's are related?). And I understand what you mean about it being irrelevant. I just have a hard time remembering that. Hopefully pennydawn has also been lucky. We all deserve that.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Hey. Remember Jeffrey Lundgren, leader of a small cult, including a family of five whom he and his other 11 or so followers murdered?

He grew up in that very same church. According to Wiki

Lundgren was born in Missouri, U.S. and grew up as a member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS Church). According to his allegations (supported by some of his former neighbors) he was severely abused as a child, particularly by his father. His mother reportedly did not defend him. Lundgren was, by most accounts, a loner when he was in middle and high school. He became an expert hunter when he began to spend time with his father as a teenager. The pair would go on hunting trips, and Lundgren became a gun expert, learning shooting and maintenance techniques.

Lundgren enrolled at Central Missouri State University, and he spent time at a house that was specially built for RLDS youth. While at the house, he became friends with Keith Johnson and Alice Keeler.
Keeler, who had been abused by her father as well, quickly bonded with Lundgren, and the two became lovers. By 1969, Keeler was pregnant with Lundgren's baby. The couple married in 1970, and Lundgren enlisted in the U.S. Navy.

 

[Texas Mist]

MissIzzy -- I want you to know that I believe there's a *big* difference in parents, especially a mother, who *notices* there's something that doesn't seem quite right about their kids - and believes & supports, as opposed to those who do not/can not tune in...not every mother is a nurturing mother, not every mother is there mentally, spiritually or emotionally for her child in need.

I believe you will receive *many blessings* not just on earth, but in Heaven-- you certainly deserve your Crown of Gold.

((hugs))

 

[Missizzy]

Thanks, Pax for that info. I'm gonna research that. Very interesting.

And Texas Mist and IWannaKnow, I realize I'm not really stupid. But give me a break. I'm a Mom and my babies got hurt. Moms always blame themselves. I guess what I should say is that I felt really stupid. The same way the people are going to feel who said the Mohlers were great guys because they help neighbors clean their garages and keep their shirts tucked in. You just cannot believe you've been duped.

I am so sorry that other Moms aren't present and supportive. I have to believe that they must be suffering their own private pains. Thank God for Grandparents, foster parents, caring teachers, and others who step in and catch a hurting child.

I know in my heart how much work you and so many others have had to do to be on this board and I'm humbled by it. You've come a long long way. I wish there were some way that we could travel to Lafayette County and sit in the courtroom during the Mohler trials to bear witness and to let these young people know that there is hope.

(((hugs to all of you...you know who you are)))

 

[Missizzy]

Pax--I think you're on to something with Jeffrey Lundgren. He was one scary fellow. I think everyone should read his story watching for correlations with the Mohlers. I noted physical abuse, extreme involvement with the RLDS church, serious issues of power and narcissism, and even animal abuse (the rabbit) when he was young. He was born in 1950. You really wonder if he and Burrell, born in 1956 crossed paths or are related in any way. The story is absolutely tragic.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/lundgren/index_1.html

(I'm not familiar with this website but the story here has far more details that the Wikipedia article)

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Lundgren[/ame]

 

[Missizzy]

I'm having to transcribe this as I can't figure out a way to cut and paste but I think it's some important information. Ever since Pax posted today with the info about Jeffrey Lundgren, I've been researching and pondering some parallels:

"Jeffrey Lundgren was born in Independence, MO. He was a member of the Slover Park Reorganized Church (ETA looks like this is in Independence) until officials transferred him to Kirtland, OH to serve as a guide at the Kirtland Temple. He married Alice Keehler in 1970 and lived for a while in a rented home in Macks Creek, MO (ETA 138 miles from Bates City). The beginnings of his deviation from the RLDS church doctrines began to emerge at this time. After Lundgren moved out, the landlord found an entire bedroom floor and closet littered with "heavy-duty" pornographic magazines."

Continue here.......

http://books.google.com/books?id=DI...0CBgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=alice keehler&f=false

Continue at this link to page 248.

There is NO way that the Mohler family was not aware or somehow affected or involved in this horrid crime. There's just too many similarities and connections!!

Also, read the review by the reviewer, "Vibiana", (and go on and read the other reviews) on the "Prophet of Death" by Pete Earley. Sounds like this woman must have known the Mohlers.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Prophet-Death-Mormon-Blood-Atonement-Killings/dp/0735100454"]Amazon.com: Prophet of Death: The Mormon Blood-Atonement Killings (9780735100459): Pete Earley: Books[/ame]

 

[Missizzy]

Link to Pete Earley's site:

http://www.peteearley.com/books/prophet.html

He's the author of "Prophet of Death". A quote from his site:

"Coming from a journalistic background, I believed in telling a story "like it is" only in this case, that included graphic accounts of disgusting sexual acts. At the time, I thought these scenes were important because they showed just how much power Jeffrey Don Lundgren held over his family and followers, but I now believe they made readers stop short."

May I ask, being as delicate and PC as possible, just what is it that links the RLDS church, men affected by early abuse, and "disgusting sexual acts"? Just wondering.

 

[Missizzy]

I just ordered a copy of this book. I'll keep you posted. I'm a fast reader. Can someone else please look at these facts and see if I'm barking up the wrong tree or if there might be something here. Thanks

 

[newcomer]

I just ordered a copy of this book. I'll keep you posted. I'm a fast reader. Can someone else please look at these facts and see if I'm barking up the wrong tree or if there might be something here. Thanks

I find this case most interesting in that they were same era and same vicinity. It amazes me what people will do in the "name of religion".

When you are done, I would be happy to help share the cost of this book if you would like to forward it on to me. I, too, am a very fast reader and would be happy to pass it on to others. Please feel free to PM me for arrangements.