• #6,081
Everyday I wake up and check thinking there will finally be a big update on this case. I’m shocked we’re on day 6 now and still nothing
 
  • #6,082
Yes, NG is definitely a fall risk since she walks with a cane.
The photo of NG using a cane standing next to SG is from June 2023
I read or heard somewhere she uses a walker.
She could now use both or used a walker back in 2023?
imo

 
  • #6,083
View attachment 642071

I really, really want to know more about this. We have heard that NG had not attended church in person since Covid. Was NG planning on making an exception to attend this particular Sunday? Did the perp think she would keep up her normal routine of watching the service remotely? Or did the perp know ahead of time that she had made special arrangements to attend in person this particular Sunday?

Regarding whether NG had recently been attending services in person or whether she was in the habit of watching them online, I'd like to see other sources besides the Daily Mail. LE doesn't have to tell us what they found. But I wonder whether some journalists could (politely & discreetly) ask around about this question, especially as we wait for other progress in the case.

JMO
 
  • #6,084
Why does everyone keep bringing up the two minute garage? As someone with an 88 year old parent...2 minutes is NOTHING. It takes me that long to pause, open car door, get walker out, help parent out of car, grab the delivery from door or mail from mailbox, hug goodbye, walk parent to door, etc. Let alone if it's recycle day or garbage day the next morning...then I'm pausing longer to bring stuff to the curb or bring bins back in.
And my garage door seems to take about 20 seconds at least to fully open before I can even walk in. And I refuse to walk under it until it’s fully up and stopped because I have an irrational fear of it falling down while moving. We didn’t get time down to the millisecond so it could be closer to 1 minute and 2 seconds between start of opening and closing. She would probably have to wait around 10 seconds for the garage door to get up enough for her to have enough room to walk under it (if she was rational enough not to worry about it falling on her!), so it could be we’re working with 52 seconds for a person with lower mobility to walk from the front to the back of the garage. Maybe she had an empty plastic water bottle in her hand, or a tissue that she figured she would throw away before going inside and her trash can was on the other side of the garage from the door closer button, so she went to the trash can first, taking up another 10 seconds. I am so confused as to why people are so hung up on the “2 minutes” (anywhere between 62 seconds and 120 seconds), even if she already out of the car and standing right in front of the door when it started to open.
 
  • #6,085
So what did taking NG actually accomplish?

If the ransom was not the main objective:
1. We know it prevented SG from going to Italy. Covering the Olympics usually means feel-good stories. So, did she have something else on her schedule that might have been destructive to someone's life? The possibility of her discovering a dark secret in TC's background tugs at my mind. However, since he's been in the family for such a long time, surely SG would have already checked him out if she wanted to. Has something come up recently?

2. It also brought the son home from Vermont. How did that change his schedule? We simply don't know.

3. Did it prevent something happening in the life of Annie and TC?

4. Or was it a break-in gone bad and simply scheduled on a bright full-moon night?

What has been accomplished? How could something be big enough to risk prison for kidnapping, possibly murder?
a break in gone bad is all i can think of to make sense at this point
remove the person/body, removes the evidence
but even that seems like a dumb move
 
  • #6,086
Yes to all your questions.

The first place I’d look to for a Perp would be someone who provided a service at her home routinely. They knew the layout.

Amateur opinion and speculation only
I assume LE is questioning service providers, repairmen, etc. ??
 
  • #6,087
Would the 40 min gap not be easily explained by the perp rummaging through Nancy’s things/robbing her? That’s what I assume they were doing. I’ll be shocked if this was a sexually motivated crime.
Maybe times was used picking front door and then having to use another door.. then time used finding keys to get out that front door
 
  • #6,088
The photo of NG using a cane standing next to SG is from June 2023
I read or heard somewhere she uses a walker.
She could now use both or used a walker back in 2023?
imo


She may use both. My neighbor (in her 80s) has both a cane and a walker and uses one or the other depending on how she's feeling that day.
 
  • #6,089
There is a clear and close-up photo of the front door area showing the locks as well as the (now empty) door camera/doorbell bracket, and it looks exactly like a Nest doorbell mounting bracket, for a battery-powered (not wired) Nest doorbell.
Sorry to reply to myself, and I don't know if this is allowed. Please delete and forgive me if not. But here is a comparison of the photo of NG's door on the left (sourced from Daily Mail) and a screenshot from Google's instructional video for installing Nest doorbells on the right. Seems pretty conclusive to me.

ngcamcompare.webp
 
  • #6,090
IMO the only way family could be involved with this, and it have a purely financial motive like inheritance or property, is if she were left in a location where she would actually be found or someone associated with them facilitated a ransom demand (in which case she would likely be alive and medicated). But family can't get an inheritance or claim someone's property without a death certificate, and the state wouldn't declare her deceased for years without a body. So if they were involved it would not be in their financial (inheritance) interest to take her away from the scene at all, and if they did take her away not to put her in a place that she couldn't be found easily.

This is why I'm not thinking family financial motive.

JMO.
Same here.
 
  • #6,091
They caught some clown who copied the ransom note loser, but not the big ransom note loser.

I think that you think that the ransom note is a settled issue, but there are two separate senders.
It might also make more sense in a case like this to have a "shelter/move the victim" team and a ransom team because the chance of maintaining anonymity is better if there are more moving parts IMO. The ransom demand could come from outside the US.
Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, but was watching Nancy Graces recent episode:

She pointed out there's two red smudges (blood) on the brick wall to the right of the front door.

Given that the blood outside was confirmed to be Nancy's this makes me believe that NG walked out and put her hand on the wall. Previously, I only noticed the blood on the ground and I was assuming that maybe she was incapacitated and carried out entirely.

JMO
I think she was scraped being carried out-or maybe tried to grab at the door frame. Not sure if she would go into shock and be compliant when awakened and "snatched" or if she would struggle a bit. It says to me that the kidnappers were not careful with her which is not good because they were treating her like a piece of furniture, not a precious cargo, IMO.
 
  • #6,092
View attachment 642071

I really, really want to know more about this. We have heard that NG had not attended church in person since Covid. Was NG planning on making an exception to attend this particular Sunday? Did the perp think she would keep up her normal routine of watching the service remotely? Or did the perp know ahead of time that she had made special arrangements to attend in person this particular Sunday?
I’m not a practicing catholic but I recall a friend has a mass said for her deceased husband once a year.That might be a day you would attend in person.Our elderly friend otherwise watches mass online every morning.
 
  • #6,093
Kinda off topic, but shows how tattoos can misinform. ICE in Minneapolis took a noted soccer player/coach because of a Real Madrid tattoo they misunderstood as gang related. Has been released.
Also recall misreading of MS-13 tattoo (individual was apprehended/deported) and was not a member. Would have to research for full details. Back to NANCY, please come home!
 
  • #6,094
It is my understanding- someone correct me if I’m wrong - that the front door camera was not a nest. The front door had a recording/working camera, so was maybe a ring camera?? The cameras placed all around the property (other than front door and MAYBE back door) were nests without subscriptions/no video.

Is that right?
Ring cams recording at front and back doors
—smashed and/or ring are just different brand names

It is my understanding- someone correct me if I’m wrong - that the front door camera was not a nest. The front door had a recording/working camera, so was maybe a ring camera?? The cameras placed all around the property (other than front door and MAYBE back door) were nests without subscriptions/no video.

Is that right?
Ring cams recording at front and back doors
—smashed and/or taken

Nest cams everywhere else
(not main entrances)
—no subscription/no video
—not smashed, not taken
Nest and Ring are just different brand names for similar types of front doorbell cameras. Cameras elsewhere can be connected to the same system, or not.
 
  • #6,095
Does anyone remember early on when the ransom note was reported on, that it was mentioned somewhere about the Thursday/Monday deadlines. But then in the last 24 hours people were responding like it was new information. I could have sworn I'd already heard that somewhere earlier. From what I recall, it was ransom to be sent by Thursday and to be received in their account by Monday. When I heard that I thought well maybe they are allowing time for the transfer - so pay by Thursday and it better be in my account by Monday.

Maybe I'm wrong, there's been so much swirling around

Found reference to it!


Vinnie Politan Court TV

2d ·

A Ransom Note For the Return of Nancy Guthrie Has Been Sent to Several Media Outlets including KGUN in Tucson… the demand is in the millions paid in Bitcoin by Thursday with a deadline that the money must be received by Monday. They also threaten to end Nancy’s life. They also claim to have knowledge of two specific items from the crime scene.

All of this is frightening and barbaric. But is it legitimate or someone trying to take advantage of the Guthries’ tragic situation?


BBM
And the WS post:

 
Last edited:
  • #6,096
Question for Sleuthers: why do you think there are pieces of boxwood or other shrubbery by the front door? Near the doormat and drops of blood?
those clippings by the door have been bothering me this week as well.
 
  • #6,097
I think the doorstep simply had not been swept in some time. I think the blood is old and not related to her disappearance at all. LE has not mentioned any other blood in the home, have they? If this was some sort of serious injury, there would be a lot more blood, for one thing. The elderly have very thin, fragile skin. It's a normal part of aging. I wouldn't be surprised if she nicked herself on a finger or her arm at some point in the past and lost a few drops of blood on the doorstep. That's been my thought process thus far.
I'm not sure I agree about the blood being old but it does make sense that the porch wasn't swept in a while. She apparently used the garage for coming and going and may not have noticed the porch was dirty. We also don't use our front door and I have gone out there at times and been appalled at how dirty the porch had gotten!
 
  • #6,098
I am sticking with the LE official timeline. And it contains no time for church member call to family. So IMO we don't know if there was a long delay between the call the family received and their arrival at the property. JMO
Ticya LE is keeping it close when the family were initially notified that NG was unaccounted for. I think we all are desperately attempting to narrow/pinpoint events on the official timeline.As others have mentioned the lack of news conferences and the vague timeline is likely all we will ever get.
 
  • #6,099
IMO the only way family could be involved with this, and it have a purely financial motive like inheritance or property, is if she were left in a location where she would actually be found or someone associated with them facilitated a ransom demand (in which case she would likely be alive and medicated). But family can't get an inheritance or claim someone's property without a death certificate, and the state wouldn't declare her deceased for years without a body. So if they were involved it would not be in their financial (inheritance) interest to take her away from the scene at all, and if they did take her away not to put her in a place that she couldn't be found easily.

This is why I'm not thinking family financial motive.

JMO.
Yes exactly. And, not to be insensitive, it would seem time was on their side to just wait it out.
 
  • #6,100
I’m new here. Los Angeles Times said she took an Uber to dinner and that family took her home.

Wondering if LE investigated or interviewed the Uber driver.

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