• #11,261

Hours after Savannah Guthrie released a video with her two siblings pleading for their mother’s return, at least three deputy sheriffs were seen at her older sister Annie Guthrie’s house late Saturday.

Three unmarked vehicles were parked in the driveway for several hours, while deputies were inside the residence.

While lights in the house appeared dim and shades were drawn, bright flashes were observed through the windows –– appearing as if authorities were taking photographs.

Officials left shortly after 10:30 p.m. local time with a bag and placed it in the back seat of one of the vehicles. One deputy sheriff was also seen wearing blue latex gloves.

There are still no suspects named in the search for Nancy Guthrie.
Sounds like so much is going on behind the scenes and what is being released to public is minimal. I wonder if there has been proof of life and info not released to public.
 
  • #11,262
I don’t know specific stats but I do know a decent amount of murders are not carefully premeditated so it was never a thought that they could get away with it; there was a lapse in impulse control/things got out of hand. so then comes the scrambling and panicking afterwards.

Moo
This ☝️
 
  • #11,263
I am caregiver to my Mom, age 85, though I don't have your credentials. So let's say she got in house via garage in 2mins after drop off from Tuscon family. Why would family then leave at 2mins. Just seems so not right. "Great to have you at our house for 3 1/2 hours. We are done" kinda behavior to me. Help the elderly get inside safe and sound and make sure she is comfortable. They just dropped her off garage side pitch black outside and so late at night..Does not add up to me.

I agree.. I personally would've made sure EVERYTHING was done and even stay a bit.

It is odd.. but families are odd as well. Out of the 12 years doing this, I can only count on 1 hand the times families were actually very helpful. Most times... I've literally seen it happen before. Son or Daughter drops client off and speeds off, I've even had the sibling call me "Oh I dropped so-so off in the garage and left without closing the door.. oh that was 5 minutes ago -- click".

Thankfully I was nearby when that call happened. and was there in less than couple minutes. I'm even dealing with it now the past 2 years I've been trying to get the siblings to be around their parent more and more, but it's like I'm rubbing salt on a wound each time I tell them the importance, especially getting closer to EOL.

It bothers me so much when I see it, and I've seen/heard worse than what 'supposed' IL did if that is the case and not surprised. I'm not defending the IL either, just giving a 'it is plausible' scenario.
 
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  • #11,264
I think there might be some family tension/dysfunction going on.

SG is the golden girl---wildly successful, famous, talented, very wealthy, AND she does not have to do the heavy lifting with their Mom's daily life. She has huge worldly concerns and she has fame and fortune. There's nothing wrong with that.

But AG is living a very different life from SG's.

AG and TC were reportedly the caregivers for Nancy. It is a lot of work. I know everyone is saying NG is as sharp as a tack and very independent, etc. But there are still a lot of things that she would need help with in many ways. It is kind of a thankless job.

I've seen this kind of family dynamic before---the Golden Child is celebrated and put on a pedestal in Mama's eyes, and when they return to the hometown, there is great fanfare and excitement etc.

The child that stays home to do the boring caregiver type things gets very little attention or reward. In fact they get some negative attention because they need to remind elderly parents to take their meds, go to the doctor appts, and convince them they are getting too old to drive safely or to take care of their own finances etc.

It can become tense and divisive. I've seen how it works sometimes.

It would not surprise me if there were some rifts in the family and perhaps involving finances.
Thanks - yes - this does make sense, but doesn't equate to a murder motive. Where does this brother fit? I guess we will never know the true dynamics.
I'm a little surprised more friends/church-goers/colleagues haven't come forward (except colleagues of SG) and said anything. I'm in the UK and our tabloid press would be having a field day getting people to give interviews and comments.
 
  • #11,265
The locked front door really bothers me.
Scenario: Nancy goes in through the garage as she can't use the front door due to mobility issues. Possibly during the night, someone knocks on her front door. She knows them and opens the door. How is this possible if it's also locked from the outside? She doesn't let them in, there's an argument, and she's hit on the head, and they possibly kill or kidnap her, then stage it to look like a break-in. They lock the back door again..but how, and why..With her keys, or did they have their own?

Scenario: Nancy goes through the garage. In the middle of the night, there is a break-in via the back door, they drag her out, possibly alive, through the locked front door, hurt her there, then lock the front door again. WHY lock it afterwards? Why take the time to do this? They must think they won't be disturbed, or maybe if they were, then they have an excuse to be there.

Scenario: Nancy needs to go for some reason. There is a plan set up. A break-in during the night, something goes wrong, they call the second person to help, and so this second person, without thinking, lets themselves in through the locked front door, drags her out, and she gets hurt. They lock the door afterwards.
 
  • #11,266
Perhaps AG is cooperating with LE in order to save herself.

Would SG and CG just be fine going along with it all and being with her in the videos though? Wouldn't they be furious?
 
  • #11,267
  • #11,268
Let's say they did the ransom letter to stall, or delay the search.

<snip>

JMO

Seems possible, even likely.
Especially if NG is no longer alive.
HOPE NOT!
 
  • #11,269
I think there might be some family tension/dysfunction going on.

SG is the golden girl---wildly successful, famous, talented, very wealthy, AND she does not have to do the heavy lifting with their Mom's daily life. She has huge worldly concerns and she has fame and fortune. There's nothing wrong with that.

But AG is living a very different life from SG's.

AG and TC were reportedly the caregivers for Nancy. It is a lot of work. I know everyone is saying NG is as sharp as a tack and very independent, etc. But there are still a lot of things that she would need help with in many ways. It is kind of a thankless job.

I've seen this kind of family dynamic before---the Golden Child is celebrated and put on a pedestal in Mama's eyes, and when they return to the hometown, there is great fanfare and excitement etc.

The child that stays home to do the boring caregiver type things gets very little attention or reward. In fact they get some negative attention because they need to remind elderly parents to take their meds, go to the doctor appts, and convince them they are getting too old to drive safely or to take care of their own finances etc.

It can become tense and divisive. I've seen how it works sometimes.

It would not surprise me if there were some rifts in the family and perhaps involving finances.
Hey, friend! Just now trying to catch up to this. Didn't think this case was going to last long. Honestly thought that it was a silver alert that would be a nothing-burger, so didn't research much...I was wrong.
Glad to see you here, hon.
Trying to catch up! Always love your insight.
 
  • #11,270
But wait - IF and I mean a big IF... AG and hubby are involved or even one of them, there's no way they could hide or explain that ransom money even if they got it! What in the world would or could they do with it? They definitely couldn't spend it!

To invest overseas or find a broker to 'bury the money' would be tough.

So if they are involved it would be an after thought to spin a kidnapping/ransom plot to divert suspicion.

I'm not sure it's them, but maybe someone close to them? Argh I go all over the place here!
but I doubt they would flaunt/spend wildly all at once if they did get it….unless they’re in huge debt and it was suddenly paid off? I wonder what the legality is for a bank to alert authorities if someone’s considerable debt is suddenly paid off in one fell swoop. Kind of seems like a touchy gray area that almost would border on violating some civil laws. But someone please correct me if I’m wrong because I don’t actually know the rules surrounding that.

as for bitcoin I also have no idea how it works so again someone correct me if I’m wrong but if the account is anonymous no one would be able to alert authorities that this account registered to AG/TC suddenly has a huge deposit of 5 or 6 million?

not making any accusations or saying you’re wrong just thinking out loud for the sake of discussion

moo
 
  • #11,271
I don’t know specific stats but I do know a decent amount of murders are not carefully premeditated so it was never a thought that they could get away with it; there was a lapse in impulse control/things got out of hand. so then comes the scrambling and panicking afterwards.

Moo
IA.

A few people have mentioned the cartels…this is not their style. I highly doubt the cartels would submit ransom notes through a news station’s tip submission form on their website. More likely to call directly or send through WhatsApp/Signal, etc.

Cartel kidnappings for ransom have far more urgency, and not to be crass, but kidnapping victims that they kill are “returned” not…whole…IYKWIM. Commonly referred to as “calling cards”
 
  • #11,272
A family member having a financial motive to murder is fairly common in terms of motives for murder in general, but if the goal is to collect an inheritance or administer property on behalf of the deceased then a death certificate is required. And a death certificate requires a body unless the murderer wants to wait 7-10 years to petition the state to issue one in absentia.

In other words, a family member murdering another family member for an inheritance or financial gain isn't uncommon, but he/she isn't going to get it by hiding a body so well that LE hasn't found it in going on 7 days now. And he/she sure isn't going to foment a worldwide media spectacle as his/her "diversion" and/or backup plan to get paid.

Defies all reason.

JMO.
 
  • #11,273
  • #11,274
I can't make sense of the juxtaposition between law enforcement's intense focus on the AG-family home and AG still being at the centre of it all with her siblings maintaining a united front. Add in the ransom element and this entire situation is baffling. Never seen anything like it.
Yep, feel exactly the same way, especially the juxtaposition.

I will say, if you look at some of the stills/screenshots of their video from today…some of the faces SG makes immediately struck me as annoyed and pissed off (thinking in particular of the thumbnail on Brian Entin’s most recent video. Just my opinion but that look seems more angry than sad.)

MOO
 
  • #11,275
  • #11,276
I've just been watching the 2 response to ransom videos. Something I noticed on both of them is AG has multiple microexpressions and it really became more obvious watching the videos back to back.

I am far from an expert in this area, but I am someone that is alert to subtle mannerisms in day to day life. And I'm not saying that these microexpressions mean any sort of guilt of AG, as it could be from stress, nerves, anxiety or her usual expressions.

However, something I did note in both videos was the raised eyebrows. Worth noting when it happens. Also, the micro smile and mouth twitching and movement. Easier to pick up when zoomed in of AG's face and listening to Savannah speak in the background.

I won't provide any links to some of the articles I've been reading because anything could be a cause of these expressions and most definitely does not suggest guilt, but it was just interesting to watch and understand what these types of microexpressions can mean based on research that is out there
 
  • #11,277
  • #11,278
Thanks - yes - this does make sense, but doesn't equate to a murder motive. Where does this brother fit? I guess we will never know the true dynamics.
I'm a little surprised more friends/church-goers/colleagues haven't come forward (except colleagues of SG) and said anything. I'm in the UK and our tabloid press would be having a field day getting people to give interviews and comments.
Rationally and logically it makes no sense at all that someone would harm their 84 yr old relative. :(

But when it does happen, we usually find there were longstanding grievances and resentments. And then one divisive event happens that agitates everyone until someone is triggered beyond the point of no return.

Here is a HYPOTHETICAL scenario....does not have to refer to any specific family member in this case----but it is the kind of scenario we sometimes see in family murders...

The elderly matriarch or patriarch has some leverage because they have some money and some goods. And one of their children or grandchildren or nephews, etc, begins to feel disrespected over time.

They stay close and stay in touch because they know at some point they will inherit something valuable----or maybe they just want validation and acceptance.....but they feel rejected much of the time...Or they feel a sibling or a cousin or someone else always gets the validation and the rewards.


Maybe at some point they began asking for what they want or need? Maybe their business is going under or they are behind on their mortgage or whatever --but it is very stressful.

The matriarch has the ability to help them but maybe they deny the request? Maybe the perpetrator begins to feel disrespected and taken advantage of because they feel they have done a lot but don't get enough in return?

One day they feel emboldened and ask outright, Will you help us pay our past mortgage debts today? We are desperate......l

It can go sideways really fast. Panic sets in and then a cover up is needed. The crime scene is staged. Decisions are made in the chaos.

The decisions make no sense. ...but it is what it is...
 
  • #11,279
I'm curious if SG helps out her siblings financially at all. Her net worth is estimated at $40M, and I believe her NYC townhome is worth about $11M and she may possibly have another home. I'm not sure her husband's net worth. I could see, if she doesn't help them at all, there being resentment. However, she is in no way obligated to

EDIT: and AG/TC's home is listed at about $650k.

1) I am surprised that anyone assumes she should help her siblings. Her expenses are also much higher. Her siblings are independent adults, with jobs. Plus, we really know nothing about the family dynamics- at all.

2) I would expect each sibling to help the mother, though, independently of the others. It seems that the mother bent her life and career so that all three could get free education in the University.

But again, the situation might be totally opposite to how we view it - mom may be trying to help the child whom she considered “not that strong”, or “less successful”? Or maybe the other kids preferred to buy mom something or pay for her medical care rather than send her money, which is also understandable?
 
  • #11,280
I've just been watching the 2 response to ransom videos. Something I noticed on both of them is AG has multiple microexpressions and it really became more obvious watching the videos back to back.

I am far from an expert in this area, but I am someone that is alert to subtle mannerisms in day to day life. And I'm not saying that these microexpressions mean any sort of guilt of AG, as it could be from stress, nerves, anxiety or her usual expressions.

However, something I did note in both videos was the raised eyebrows. Worth noting when it happens. Also, the micro smile and mouth twitching and movement. Easier to pick up when zoomed in of AG's face and listening to Savannah speak in the background.

I won't provide any links to some of the articles I've been reading because anything could be a cause of these expressions and most definitely does not suggest guilt, but it was just interesting to watch and understand what these types of microexpressions can mean based on research that is out there
JMO - I Also wondered what it meant so i asked but it got dismissed as her just being exhausted and emotional from the whole thing, which ofcourse could simply be the case.
My gut from the start said SIL and maybe AG know more but i could (and hope) be wrong.
I obviously don't know AG so it's really hard to say if this is just her way of expressing herself or if there's more behind it.
I just hope Nancy is returned soon 🙏🏻
 
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