AZ Nancy Guthrie, 84, (mother of TODAY Show host Savannah Guthrie) missing - last seen in the Catalina foothills area on Jan 31, 2026

[allboys]

Is this what launched the bar thing? It's obvious conjecture. JMO

As far as the similar language from Silence of the Lambs, I feel that is easily explainable. The movie makers probably consulted with the FBI during the making of that movie, to make it more realistic. This is likely a standard type of language that would be advised when communicating with a kidnapper.

 

[Trino]

Yes they are. I was raised in Texas and now live up north. I love Texas and it’s a shame what has become of the southern and western borders. Cartels are powerful and people are very afraid of them and sadly, LE is paid off by them and working for them. I mean some of the LE. I have many friends in Tucson. It’s a wonderful city, now controlled by cartels.

Hell's Angels, South Side (Phoenix), Sinola Cartel, Barrio, New Mexican Mafia. They are into drug money. I just don't see cartels and Bitcoin mixing. However, Never say Never.

 

[Napoli]

Can someone post a link about the bar visit? It's the first I'm hearing of it too.

THERE WAS NO BAR VISIT AND THERE WAS NO SPUTUM IN THE BLOOD.THOSE WERE SPECULATIONS BY POSTERS OR UNINFORMED AND UNCORROBORATED MUSINGS BY POSTERS. THE SHERIFF MENTIONED THE CALL FROM THE CHURCH LADY ONCE. THAT HAS NEVER BEEN DEBUNKED. IF SOMEONE CAN ABSOLITELY VERIFY A BAR VISIT, A PLACE WHERE IT WAS VERIFIED THAT THERE WAS SPUTUM IN THE BLOOD OR THAT THERE WAS NO CHURCH LADY, PLEASE POST IT HERE AS THIS IS GETTING CRAZY. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN POSTER'S OPINIONS ARE TAKEN AS FACTS. SOMEONE OPINED THAT IF SHE WAS BLEEDING FROM THE MOUTH THE BLOOD SPOTS WOULD CONTAIN SPUTUM. NOW SUDDENLY , THIS IS THE NEW BENCHMARK..
Bolded by Tricia PLEASE READ

 

[Bodhi]

Good morning to everyone!

I just wanted to chime in with some thoughts I've been mulling over:

1) It is tempting to think that this is all hingeing on SG and her work, and I would think -if that is the tack being taken- that it's more a fan of someone she's "grilled" during an interview.
2) The cartel theory is not convincing to me because there is a degree of patient drawing-out of the notes that doesn't match the usual "kidnap, ransom request and here's the body, you took too long."
3) Also, the cartel theory seems to feed into a more political aspect (that immigrants, or foreign bad actors are involved), and this seems personal.
4) The timeline is very suspect; it would be helpful to know the time for the service that NG supposedly (and I say this because the matter hasn't been clarified to satisfaction) missed, the time of the call, and so on and so forth.
5) Everyone's finances have been investigated; it might take time to get everything they need, but the basics are clear to LE by now...it HAS been a week, and there must have been discussions about who and how the ransom would be funded.
6) Speculating about family relationships, I think, is excessively intrusive. The situation is already fraught for them, and I don't doubt there have been copious discussions and arguments about big or small grievances from time immemorial. That part should be left for the investigators to dissect as part of their process, but we sitting on the bleachers can't pretend we know what is going on behind closed doors among these relatives.

These are all my own opinions on the subject, and I apologize if they seem silly or naive. I fear that there are two separate narratives here, and one of them (the ransom demands and the "wild goose chases" being triggered by messages we are unaware of) will be what brings the whole thing to a head for the real perpetrator(s).

I just pray that NG is found even though I seriously doubt that, at this point and with all the emotional, psychological and physical trauma she's endured, she is still alive.

Please be kind in your responses. I mean well and do my best to be clear, but this is not my first language and I am getting older every day.

Your last sentence took me by surprise. I was reading along and appreciating your analytical, measured approach. Then you ended with English is not your first language. I did not see that coming! You're fluency in a second language is something I envy.

 

[MizStery]

The person who called the family could have called or texted NG, having first noted her absence, and had no reply. That might have been unusual for NG – both the absence and the silence.
<snipped for emphasis >
The family could also have called NG. The person from church could have
It’s all speculation but since the FBI complaint against the hoaxer mentions the phone call, we can be reasonably sure that details of the call were verified.

This is important because this contradicts the ‘official timeline’. The FBI must release an updated ‘official timeline’. Unbelievably we have a representative from the FBI giving swore testimony in an Arizona Federal Court that destroy’s the ‘official timeline’.

This stretches the credibility of this investigation. It does not instill confidence in the veracity of the information released by the FBI. I would categorize it as sloppy.

The FBI needs to clarify this but I won’t hold my breath.

 

[Inthedetails]

I want to believe if family involved they would be on their trail by now. I don’t believe that is the case. I totally believe ransom notes from kidnappers because they waited until they had her far enough away and nobody on their trail. And they are sophisticated enough that they are able to get ransom notes done without leaving a digital footprint.

On the other hand, I would think kidnappers, especially of an elderly person, would want their money FAST and get away.

jmo

 

[HoveringWombats]

What the kidnapper has done must be very sophisticated and to me indicates a professional hacker or group that took advantage of the situation to try and make some money.

I'm sorry, but I just have to strongly disagree (MY OPINION) that you need to be a professional hacker or group to hide your identity better than using an mainstream western VPN service. It might not be something that most people here know how to do, but it also is really not difficult. I've already written one too-long post going through some possibilities, and I don't really feel like re-writing it, but I will say that in my strongly based personal opinion and experience, it is a mistake to assume that someone needs to be ultra-sophisticated or a professional hacker to successfully hide from US authorities online (and especially if we define "hiding" not as hiding forever, but hiding in such a way that it can take days or weeks to track them down, rather than just making a call to ExpressVPN or whatever).

 

[Trino]

Plus they would have checked his devices, to include downloading his phone (maybe more than once).

So I think it’s unlikely he sent them.

LE obviously searched his computers for evidence. Sounds as if they found nothing.

 

[nodamselindistress]

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I believe there might be some confusion about the actual connection of bluetooth between the two devices.

While most if not all pacemakers don't have real time monitoring between the devices, rather instead an interrogation at certain times. I do believe they would still show connected to ones smart phone.

While there might not be data transmission or "syncing" continuously, they would still show a connection while in range IMO.

Would it be possible that when Investigators said the pacemaker app said disconnect from phone that it was referring to the app losing basic BT connection to the device and not actually losing connection while in the middle of an interrogation?

Edited to add: 2:28am seems like a random time for an interrogation to be taking place. MOO


Yes, pacemakers can maintain a Bluetooth connection with a phone app even when not actively interrogating. This allows for continuous monitoring and data transmission to the app, providing patients and healthcare providers with real-time information about the device's status and performance. For instance, Bluetooth-enabled pacemakers, like those using the MyCareLink Heart app, facilitate ongoing communication, ensuring that important data is readily accessible without the need for frequent manual checks and reconnecting to Bluetooth.
View attachment 642938

Interesting! I am guessing it could depend on the app and pacemaker involved? The way some WSers described it sure did seem to be saying there was daily communication to DL data only. If the disconnect message showed up every time the devices were out of range, that could add up to many disconnects during the day if one does not keep the phone close.

 

[Simply Southern]

There will be no good news unfortunately. It was obvious from SG's latest message and generally putting all of the factors together, the chances of her still being alive at this point are very low. Jmo.

I agree. I interpreted the message to mean …they would like her body back and I don’t see that happening even if they paid the ransom. Moo

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I want to believe if family involved they would be on their trail by now. I don’t believe that is the case. I totally believe ransom notes from kidnappers because they waited until they had her far enough away and nobody on their trail. And they are sophisticated enough that they are able to get ransom notes done without leaving a digital footprint.

I agree about the family - if they were involved, I'd think LE would have discovered so much leading to them by now they'd be in for extensive questioning, if not in custody. I can't see it for the reason we've not seen anything like. We have AB reporting him being a possible suspect and that's pretty much it.

 

[Cipher Vale]

About the cartel/organized crime angle: Cartels don't randomly kidnap people and stay silent. They kidnap and murder to send messages. There have been zero public messages from any person or organization. I can't think of a single cartel hit that wasn't a public spectacle. Furthermore, cartels do have a loose code of conduct. Kidnapping an innocent 84 year old woman would go against that.

There has also been zero inclusion of any kind of messaging in the Guthrie videos. No "I want to apologize for my hurtful words to the innocent xxxxx organization for whom I've slandered" or any other public statement that you'd expect.

Besides all that - what's the point? No one in the Guthrie family would be a target for a cartel.

The Epstein angle is also questionable. Of all the names in the files, all the associations that have been made public now - Nancy Guthrie is the one being kidnapped/murdered/silenced?

 

[Bodhi]

And as I keep sayin....

oh my.... we are opening one huge Pandora's Box....

This NY Post article simply repeats a Fox News report. Is that allowed?

 

[Trino]

I'm sorry, but I just have to strongly disagree (MY OPINION) that you need to be a professional hacker or group to hide your identity better than using an mainstream western VPN service. It might not be something that most people here know how to do, but it also is really not difficult. I've already written one too-long post going through some possibilities, and I don't really feel like re-writing it, but I will say that in my strongly based personal opinion and experience, it is a mistake to assume that someone needs to be ultra-sophisticated or a professional hacker to successfully hide from US authorities online (and especially if we define "hiding" not as hiding forever, but hiding in such a way that it can take days or weeks to track them down, rather than just making a call to ExpressVPN or whatever).

If he's asking for Bitcoin, he must know how to delink his name from it. Takes a bit of sophistication and previous use.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Cartels aren't lacking in cash. This makes ZERO sense. It makes more sense that someone local to the area targeted Nancy because they knew SG has money they can extort.

You could be right. But if some yard worker owes the cartel and knows he could repay it by helping them kidnap some woman and they could get a few million and he could pay his bill what makes you think he wouldn’t that? After all, cartels are not good up front businessmen. They specialize in dirty work.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Do you have a source for vpn providers being required to keep US user logs? I did a google search and found nothing

Here is a good article summarizing what is publically known.

What Dirt Does Your VPN Have on You? VPN Logging Explained

A VPN is a powerful tool for keeping your private information under wraps, but what does it mean for you if your VPN is logging your data on its network?

www.pcmag.com

More than enough to know who you are.

I will speculate in addition to what you can read here that there are additional, non public, agreements with the government.

Here is another one-

https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/vpns/no-logs-versus-zero-logs-whats-the-difference?_gl=1*85m2bl*_up*MQ..&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5NDMsurMkgMVjE1HAR09PDyIEAMYASAAEgJ1OfD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAAqzfqMY-VoDhNxqNQwbpgb4wtaYBf

 

[Love Never Fails]

About the cartel/organized crime angle: Cartels don't randomly kidnap people and stay silent. They kidnap and murder to send messages. There have been zero public messages from any person or organization. I can't think of a single cartel hit that wasn't a public spectacle. Furthermore, cartels do have a loose code of conduct. Kidnapping an innocent 84 year old woman would go against that.

There has also been zero inclusion of any kind of messaging in the Guthrie videos. No "I want to apologize for my hurtful words to the innocent xxxxx organization for whom I've slandered" or any other public statement that you'd expect.

Besides all that - what's the point? No one in the Guthrie family would be a target for a cartel.

The Epstein angle is also questionable. Of all the names in the files, all the associations that have been made public now - Nancy Guthrie is the one being kidnapped/murdered/silenced?

And you KNOW all this how?

 

[tlcya]

This is in the criminal complaint filed against fake hoaxer, filed on Thursday Feb 5th
View attachment 642933

https://www.justice.gov/usao-az/media/1426976/dl?inline

thank you for this link. While it doesn't provide times of call by church friend or exact time of call to 911, it does seem to support that as of February 5th, the date signed, authorities still believed a phone call from NG's church friend did indeed trigger the alarm that NG was missing.

 

[nightowl2728]

I wanted to address this, because I am one person who has spoken up about the assumptions around NG's abilities. Everything here, MOO of course. I am nowhere near NG's age (I am actually younger than SG), so this does not come from a place of defensiveness. Disagreement on matters of opinion does not imply bad faith. I think most of us here are doing our best to figure out what happened, based on our own personal experiences, which is about all we can do, given the lack of facts.

First, I completely respect your experience and knowledge as a lawyer. I can only speak for myself, but when I opine on the abilities of NG, I am neither making nor predicting any legal argument. We are so far away from this being in a courtroom that it seems pointless to speculate on, and I don't have the knowledge to do so anyway. I really don't think most of this discussion is about what would make for a sound legal argument at this point; it's about what the scant evidence we do have might suggest about what actually happened, with the goal of finding NG. This thread is about finding her, not building a case against any perp. All the legal stuff will play out later and is a separate question.

If we review all of the available information, I think we'll see that there are some conflicting perspectives on how mobile, active, and able NG is. My personal opinion (nothing more!) is that her frailty may be somewhat played up in the public communications to the ransom note writers and in the press conferences, to engender sympathy and humanize her. In these contexts, I do not think that it would help achieve anyone's goal to emphasize how strong and independent she is, and how she'll be just fine on her own. That's just not the narrative they want to be weaving at this point.

This is not to say that it's not clearly (IMO) true that she has mobility issues, and likely that she's on important medication, is injured easily, etc. But it's also not to say that she doesn't regularly move herself around town without assistance, drive a car, and generally lead an active life. These things can both be true.

The bottom line of my frustration with some of the discourse here is that it is framed as "because she is a frail old lady, it's simply impossible that she did X, and therefore the explanation must be Y." As outsiders, we do not know definitively what she can and can't do. We can talk all day about what we might consider reasonable for someone in a similar condition, but 1) we don't have a ton of details about what her condition actually is — just snippets of incomplete information, and 2) what might be reasonable for other people is not really conclusive evidence of what happened here.

I'm totally fine with "hey, given what we know about NG's age and condition, this scenario seems unlikely to me." I'm less ok with "no one in NG's age and condition could have done that, so obviously this is what happened." Maybe it seems like a subtle distinction, but I guess I'm just looking for some nuance, some acknowledgement that we're dealing with an individual human being rather than an abstract average statistic, and an understanding that we're all doing our best here with very limited information.

None of us truly know what happened, and whether we like it or not, the bits and pieces of information we have do not point in a single direction. It's not bad faith to share our own opinions based on the combination of life experience and the information we do have.

I appreciate your reasoned response! I agree this isn't a courtroom; and, I'm not trying to be argumentative - am responding to others' who have strongly shot down my original post (with fact patterns which are NOT the same or really even similar to what I was pointing out). This is a forum and I take those responses fairly, if they are given fairly! I'll probably stop weighing in on this after this post because I think it's not really worth it, but just to respond, nowhere in any of my posts (or anyone else's that I've seen - I haven't read every post) have I said that given her age and condition, NG shouldn't have done something or that she should have been taken care of a certain way. It's an important distinction that I agree with you on and that I have made which is why, with all due respect, I think saying otherwise is possibly reading into and projecting onto me things I have not said. And why I said that it doesn't feel like people are engaging the question "with good faith". All of my responses have been based on what I think likely or not given her condition and my personal knowledge of similar people. I stand by my point that people not in similar condition are largely irrelevant and feel like false claims of "agism". To which I imagine such folks, fortunately, haven't had an elderly loved one who needs serious care yet.

 

[MCB1151]

I’ve mentioned that I live in NG’s neighborhood. Several people here as well as folks I know who live close to main roads, even outside of this neighborhood, had LE visits over the weekend. They want footage from any cameras facing these main roads: Oracle road and 1st Ave are the two I can personally confirm.

Out of sheer curiosity, is it local sheriffs or FBI making visits or both? I'm just curious who is doing what at this point of this joint investigation