GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #8

[Woe.be.gone]

Here is an informative post for those of you who are confused about whether Nick is only attracted to children. I have stated these facts several times and am highly informed about these facts because I have taken several classes regarding sex offenders. So maybe this will shed some more light.
http://www.sheriff.org/sexualpredators/facts.cfm


Coming from this link above.


Facts about sex offenders and predators

Offender characteristics

While most sex offenders are male, sometimes sex offenses are committed by female offenders.
Some offenders do seek sexual gratification from the act, but that is often not a primary motivation for a rape offender. Power, control, and anger are more likely to be the primary motivators.
Studies suggest that most rape offenders are married or in consenting relationships.
Wanting to change is usually not enough to be able to change the patterns that lead to sexual offenses. To create the motivation to change, some offenders need a variety of treatment and corrective interventions, and for others learning how to make the change in their own behavioral cycle of abuse is more effective.
While drugs and alcohol are often involved in sexual assaults, drugs and alcohol do not cause sexual offenses to occur. Rather, drug and alcohol use may be a disinhibitor for the offender, while being under the influence may increase a potential victim's vulnerability.

While there is a small subset of child sexual abusers who are exclusively attracted to children, the majority of the individuals who sexually abuse children are (or have previously been) attracted to adults.

To read more, check the link above.

It depends on if the person is classified as having 'pedophilia' or not.
If one is a pedophile, then they are less likely to commit crimes against the general population. If a 'child molester', more likely to commit violent crimes and sex crimes against a vulnerable target.

When VOH stated that NH may be an 'asexual' being, my awareness that he could have Pedophilia went up. He wouldn't have 'regular' girlfriends then and Pedophilia is something one hides. But I'm sure alot of Pedophiles get married to hide their preference? I don't know enough about this but I found the distinction interesting in an article I linked a thread or two back.

 

[Muckrucker]

Here is an informative post for those of you who are confused about whether Nick is only attracted to children. I have stated these facts several times and am highly informed about these facts because I have taken several classes regarding sex offenders. So maybe this will shed some more light.
http://www.sheriff.org/sexualpredators/facts.cfm


Coming from this link above.


Facts about sex offenders and predators

Offender characteristics

While most sex offenders are male, sometimes sex offenses are committed by female offenders.
Some offenders do seek sexual gratification from the act, but that is often not a primary motivation for a rape offender. Power, control, and anger are more likely to be the primary motivators.
Studies suggest that most rape offenders are married or in consenting relationships.
Wanting to change is usually not enough to be able to change the patterns that lead to sexual offenses. To create the motivation to change, some offenders need a variety of treatment and corrective interventions, and for others learning how to make the change in their own behavioral cycle of abuse is more effective.
While drugs and alcohol are often involved in sexual assaults, drugs and alcohol do not cause sexual offenses to occur. Rather, drug and alcohol use may be a disinhibitor for the offender, while being under the influence may increase a potential victim's vulnerability.

While there is a small subset of child sexual abusers who are exclusively attracted to children, the majority of the individuals who sexually abuse children are (or have previously been) attracted to adults.

To read more, check the link above.

Real life support for the premise that many child predators aren't only attracted to children: How many times have we seen long-married men arrested for sexual crimes against children? Too damn many.

The point is that many have relations with adults that are 'normal' enough to not raise red flags. Many get away with their crimes for decades because they appear to me average members of society. Not predators.

Good share, SpoiledMom.

 

[Muckrucker]

If you haven't watched Kelli's mom's plea yet, you really should. I just watched it again, and it is truly heart-wrenching to hear the pain in this mom's voice:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/47228...ers-mom-begs-please-release-her/#.T57uF6sqNDs

This is that point in cases when you wish suspects would develop a sudden attack of conscience and tell the families how to find their loved ones.

 

[spoiledmom]

It depends on if the person is classified as having 'pedophilia' or not.
If one is a pedophile, then they are less likely to commit crimes against the general population. If a 'child molester', more likely to commit violent crimes and sex crimes against a vulnerable target.

When VOH stated that NH may be an 'asexual' being, my awareness that he could have Pedophilia went up. He wouldn't have 'regular' girlfriends then and Pedophilia is something one hides. But I'm sure alot of Pedophiles get married to hide their preference? I don't know enough about this but I found the distinction interesting in an article I linked a thread or two back.

What makes Nick seem more like the article I posted above and less like a pedophile (IMO) is that his attack on the child was violent. He caused severe injury to her and was charged additionally with child abuse. I believe that he is more about power, anger and control rather than having some distorted love fantasy for a child. If he had groomed this child and manipulated her I may have a different perspective on this. But it was a one time violent attack.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Someone at Froggys had to know NH lived behind the bar. They would have seen his car parked there every night when closing the bar. Not to mention see him walking in /out of woods, hanging at the bar all the time. Sounds like he had been there for a while - not just days. Come on!?

I second this opinion. Not all of Froggy's patrons would know Nick lived back there, but some of Froggy's employees had to have known imo. :twocents:

 

[spoiledmom]

I'm really hoping that LE will start focusing more on finding Kelli and less on finding her phone. What are the chances of finding a cell phone VS finding a body? Wouldn't you think hiding a cell phone would be much easier than hiding a body? It's seems as though they are more focused on getting specific DNA from that phone. I know this is important to the case but you would think the focus would be on finding Kelli first and then the phone. I don't understand why they haven't searched other ponds.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

First off, here is the quotes from Nick that he gave in his TV interview:

"As soon as you drive into the entrance to Meadowbrook, she said stop right here," Holbert said. "So I stopped and she said, 'I'll walk home.' I said, 'Are you sure?' She said, 'Yeah.' I said I figured she didn't want me to know where she lived, or somebody was there and she didn't want to be seen together."

The bar hand, who lives in a lean-to behind Froggy Bottoms, was questioned for a second time today by Fayetteville Police.

Now, here's what I believe happened that evening... It's just an opinion..

I believe Kelli had a good "buzz" going on, having 4 drinks & 4 shots...
I believe Nick was getting the impression that Kelli may have been interested in him...
I believe that when Nick & Kelli left FB's, supposedely drive Kelli home, that Nick tried to take advantage of Kelli, (she had consume 8 drinks)
I believe that Kelli tried to stop Nick's advances...
I believe something horrible happened to Kelli, and Nick was responsible for this.
I believe that Kelli NEVER made it to he apartment complex. The last cell phone ping is from the FB area, and also Investigators must believe this because this is where they are concentrating their search, NOT Meadowbrooks apartments where she was supposedly dropped off...
I believe Kelli was already incapacitated by Nick when he returned to FB's...
I believe Nick had Kelli's phone at this time...
Nick was also quoted as saying that he observed Kelli texting alot that night..
I believe Nick had Kelli's phone & texted the final 2 messages "getting a ride home from a man" & "home safely".
Again, the final messages were sent from FB area, NOT Meadowbrook Apts...
Kelli wasn't reported missing until Monday...
Nick had 2 days to dispose of Kelli...
Everything Nick has been quoted as saying to me raises a red flag...
Nick figured figured "she didn't want me to know where she lived"
and "somebody was there and she didn't want to be seen together."
And last but not least, here is another quote from Nick... He said "he believed he was being targeted because he has a criminal record".
Really???? Your were the LAST person to see Kelli!!! He is very defensive!!!
He is a convicted Sex Offender who has EVERYTHING TO LOSE!!!

Below is a link that had the following quote from April 23rd.

http://************.com/category/kelli-bordeaux/nicholas-holbert/

Police sources who do not wish to be identified have confirmed they have recovered evidence that suggests Bordeaux may have been injured, and although they will not reveal what it is, believe it is tied to Holbert.

Now, this may have slipped by most of the postings, but I didn't recall seeing
that there was a police source that actually confirmed that there was evidence that Kelli may have been injured, that they believe is tied to Nick...
Interesting...

I'm posting my impressions as I go - sorry I'm four pages back.

First thing, we can't go by unofficial police sources who do not wish to be identified - that's rumor.

Second thing, based on the description above, 1. Nick is a violent criminal and was totally overtaken by his sadistic impulses, 2. Nick is one stupid criminal if he thought those text messages would spare him being tied to Kelli's disappearance. If committed by NH, Kelli's disappearance is almost too blatant to have been committed by NH. He may be that stupid though. :waitasec: But, a sneaky perp could have slipped right in there between them if they were being spoon fed a timeline or waiting in the wings for Kelli to come home.

That said, it could be NH but none of the above proves it was him.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

What makes Nick seem more like the article I posted above and less like a pedophile (IMO) is that his attack on the child was violent. He caused severe injury to her and was charged additionally with child abuse. I believe that he is more about power, anger and control rather than having some distorted love fantasy for a child. If he had groomed this child and manipulated her I may have a different perspective on this. But it was a one time violent attack.

True. It's hard to imagine anyone doing that. My only hestitation of dooming NH from the start, is that he was 16 yo when he committed the crime against the little girl. :maddening: But, even signs of a young person hurting animals are a sign of future sicko behavior so, :waitasec:.

When he hurt the little girl, he didn't think it through though. Didn't he realize her mother would know? The little girl must have not appeared to be beaten up though because I read where the girl actually told her mother what had happened. That's why I don't know how violent it was - like if the mom walked in the door and found her wounded, bloody child.

 

[VOH910]

VOH...who do you think LE might consider as other suspects, if there is less than 100% certaintly of one person, assuming that one person is NH?

I cannot answer this.

 

[VOH910]

VOH, do you have any idea when Nick got his vehicle? TIA.

I do not know this.

 

[VOH910]

Thought: Cape Fear River has alligators in it.

 

[Eileen730]

It depends on if the person is classified as having 'pedophilia' or not.
If one is a pedophile, then they are less likely to commit crimes against the general population. If a 'child molester', more likely to commit violent crimes and sex crimes against a vulnerable target.

When VOH stated that NH may be an 'asexual' being, my awareness that he could have Pedophilia went up. He wouldn't have 'regular' girlfriends then and Pedophilia is something one hides. But I'm sure alot of Pedophiles get married to hide their preference? I don't know enough about this but I found the distinction interesting in an article I linked a thread or two back.

But his crime was commited whe he was also cosidered a child!

How often does this occur and could it be the raging testosterone of a 16 yr old and it wouldnt have mattered to him if the victim was 5 or 15 or 25?

Also id like to know when a woman goes missing are they most likely to be found if the crime was done by a stranger or a loved one? Ayone know?

For some reason i think when a stranger murders them the stranger leaves them in a shallow grave or in a dump or trash site where loved ones take the time to hide the bodies ad the crime!

I dont know!

 

[andalso]

It occurred to me that perhaps Nick is not as dumb as I think.
He was able to live, undetected, in the woods directly behind the bar he frequented. He had a car, a cell phone and a facebook account (since deleted). He was able to earn money by doing odd jobs. He recently DID register as a SO, he just gave a fake address and he got away with it (until this). AND he was able to get Kelli to trust him enough that she would be alone in a car with him. For a homeless RSO, he was doing alright for himself, through lies and deceit.
Sounds like a guy who has plenty of street smarts to me. When I put all this together, I feel sick to my stomach that I had put one ounce of faith in anything NH had to say. I think NH is playing dumb for the cameras & LE, but IMO, he knows exactly what happened to Kelli.

 

[sureLocke]

I'm posting my impressions as I go - sorry I'm four pages back.

First thing, we can't go by unofficial police sources who do not wish to be identified - that's rumor.

Second thing, based on the description above, 1. Nick is a violent criminal and was totally overtaken by his sadistic impulses, 2. Nick is one stupid criminal if he thought those text messages would spare him being tied to Kelli's disappearance. If committed by NH, Kelli's disappearance is almost too blatant to have been committed by NH. He may be that stupid though. :waitasec: But, a sneaky perp could have slipped right in there between them if they were being spoon fed a timeline or waiting in the wings for Kelli to come home.

That said, it could be NH but none of the above proves it was him.

I don't know Nick, but I would not give him too much credit. Phrases such as "that stupid", may not apply directly to his IQ, but more-so to his decision making ability, which can be 2 very different things. He may have reacted and thought later as we often do.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The cell carrier can absolutely determine which cell tower her phone pinged off of and at what times. That's part of the information generated and maintained by the carrier.

Further, they know which tower transmitted the 2 texts sent from KB's phone. There is a bit of a range involved in tower transmission--kind of an arc shape that usually covers an angle greater than 180 degrees. It's not 100%, but it's pretty accurate in determining someone's movements.

Still, outside of the apartment and outside of Froggy's are so close together. If Kelli made it out of NH's car, but not as far as her building - that still leaves room for another abductor and may not have affected the cell pings.

LE knows the timing of the texts and LE knows NH's story - why haven't they charged him if something isn't matching up? If something happened to Kelli earlier than 1:20, and NH knew about the text because he sent it, then why would he push the time up that he dropped her off? He could have done something to Kelli between 12 and 1, then went on to tell the rest of the story (making it up). Still, the last ping and the time he says he dropped her off would have to match up pretty closely.

-What time did Kelli's phone ping for the last time?
-How can LE be certain it pinged from Froggy's, since Kelli's apt. location can access the same tower?
-what have the patrons from Froggy's told LE as far as the time they believe Kelli and Nick left the bar together?
Does that match up to the 1:00AM timeframe NH has claimed? (why did LE put out a plea for info focusing on a time an hour earlier?) Do some patrons recall Nick returning to the bar after he claims to have dropped Kelli off?
-What time was the final text sent in relation to the final ping? Same time? Or was the text sent first and the final ping not until much later?

Did anybody hear any screams or anything at all unusual around Froggy's or around Kelli's apartment? None reported that I know of. Was she dragged into a car and driven away? Again, what time was final ping?

If the barrels were lit on Friday night at Froggy's, weren't patrons using the space back there to smoke? If so, weren't people going in and out? If not, why were the barrels lit?

 

[Madeleine74]

VOH...who do you think LE might consider as other suspects, if there is less than 100% certaintly of one person, assuming that one person is NH?

I'm obviously not VOH, but I believe LE goes in the direction the evidence and/or information leads them.

They can suspect anyone, but if there's no evidence pointing to a certain suspect then by default they'd have to look elsewhere. I certainly hope they look at the facts and evidence first and let that lead them, rather than decide who did it and then try to make facts and evidence fit to be that person.

The way most investigations work is LE starts with the person or persons last seen with the victim and work outwards from there. They have to exclude people one by one. Obviously NH would be POI #1 since he was the last known person to be with KB before she disappeared. They would also investigate family, friends, and anyone who was around KB or could have been around KB that last night. At the same time, they are looking for physical evidence, data, the missing person or their body, and for any clue that can give them some direction.

 

[Portabella]

Thought: Cape Fear River has alligators in it.

Is the alligator population growing? This article makes it sound like they are not that common or plentiful. Almost a rare occurrance to see them? Just asking because populations can grow rapidly of any animal/reptile/amphibian if conditions are right. TIA
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3144525/

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I don't know Nick, but I would not give him too much credit. Phrases such as "that stupid", may not apply directly to his IQ, but more-so to his decision making ability, which can be 2 very different things. He may have reacted and thought later as we often do.

True, that's why choice No. 1 in my post states, 'Nick is a violent criminal and was totally taken over by his . . .', something like that.
Not stupid but an impulsive, violent criminal.

 

[Melly53]

True, that's why choice No. 1 in my post states, 'Nick is a violent criminal and was totally taken over by his . . .', something like that.
Not stupid but an impulsive, violent criminal.

I would say, based on past history, that he has a lack of impulse control rather than he was impulsive. Two completely different things.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

People, please read the posts considering the full content. When I said Nick/stupid it was in combination with a theory that his story is not well thought out and he's 'stupid' if he thinks it's believable if it's not true - does that make sense? I'm using 'stupid' as in stupid is as stupid does. Do you ever say, 'That was dumb', about yourself? I do, when I do careless things - that doesn't mean I think I'm dumb overall at all times. But if I was trying to cover my arse, I'd brush off the cookie crumbs from my face before insisting I didn't eat the cookies.

Let's say Nick did something to Kelli way out back behind Froggy's because he's a sadistic rapist or couldn't take no for an answer so he ended up killing her. Why would he then say that he drove her home and name a specific time? Why not just say, Kelli insisted on walking home? No one claims to have seen them actually enter his car for the ride home.