NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

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  • #81
He is a journalist 10ofRods. "The video, shot by freelance journalist Juan Alberto Vázquez, ..."


Okay, I get it. It took a while, but I did find published articles by him (in Spanish, using a search engine for Spanish journalism; he worked for a paper in Morelia, MX, IIRC, for 20 years.

He is a now self-published photojournalist. IMO. He has a great eye for NY street scenes.

IMO.
 
  • #82
I think those facts indicate significant damage to the trachea, with the autonomic response (that was repressed by the chokehold) of coughing and gagging (the egress of the mucus and blood was impossible during the hold). Neely was no longer acting out of any kind of upper brain function, his autonomic nervous system took over, he then lost consciousness, then he died. By which I mean his brain had no oxygen for at least 3 minutes, IMO.

It's horrifying that we all can witness this via the videos. But, we do need to know what really happens in the world.

IMO.
Coughing up blood and mucus can also be a sign of drug overdose.

 
  • #83
The Queens man, whose name started to circulate on Twitter overnight, served as an infantry squad leader and an instructor in water survival while in the Marines Corps from 2017 to 2021, according to his online resume. Penny graduated from high school in West Islip, NY.



So I'm pondering why he didn't commence first aid upon realising that Neely was out, after he'd retrieved his hat, that is, priorities.
whereas the assistant allegedly checking pulse and fending off concerned bystanders with pat answers may not be trained in very much at all by the way he conducted himself, Penny certainly had the necessary training.

He must have realised that Neely was quite dead.
It's not rocket science.


He did nothing.

I'm pretty sure the DA will be looking at that and I'm wondering whether additional charged will be applied?
 
  • #84
“Recruits learn specific techniques to use in a last-chance situation if they don’t have a weapon,” said Sgt. Brandon Karnes, drill instructor, Platoon 1051, Co. C, 1st RTBn. “These choking techniques, if applied properly, are a fast and safe way to knock out the enemy.”
The two types of chokes that recruits learn are the rear choke and figure-four variation. Both techniques are blood chokes. By applying pressure to the carotid artery, the major artery of the head and neck, blood flow is restricted to the brain causing the enemy to pass out.
“A properly applied blood choke can knock out an enemy in less than eight seconds,” said Karnes. “Trying to restrict air to a victim can take close to a minute, which is enough time for the enemy to fight back.”

Recruits then learned counter techniques to chokes and holds. The three techniques: counter to the rear choke, counter to the headlock and counter to the bear hug, allow recruits to break away from the enemy, throw them off balance and follow on with additional strikes.
“These techniques give us a chance to react quickly during a surprise attack,” explained Recruit Sterling Sallee, Plt. 1053, Co. C, 1st RTBn. “You never know what type of situation you can be in where someone is able to sneak up on you.”
Karnes, a black belt Martial Arts Instructor, explained that although MCMAP teaches recruits how to defend themselves, it also stresses the importance of controlling a situation with the least amount of force.

MCMAP helps develop a Marines’ character. It helps make them mentally stronger and teaches the responsible use of force, leadership and importance of teamwork.
“I think it’s important that we learn these techniques,” said Sallee. “It’s important to learn how to protect yourself without taking someone else’s life in the process.”

 
  • #85
.
My fear is that this was beyond mere clearing of the airway. Choke holds cause collapse and crushing of the fibers that make the airway possible in the first place (that's why they are banned in so many situations today).

I do think Neely would have needed a tracheotomy, although it's possible he was also brain dead (loss of autonomic functioning is a very poor sign).

IMO.

You can still perform compressions only CPR even with severe throat injuries.
 
  • #86
The Queens man, whose name started to circulate on Twitter overnight, served as an infantry squad leader and an instructor in water survival while in the Marines Corps from 2017 to 2021, according to his online resume. Penny graduated from high school in West Islip, NY.



So I'm pondering why he didn't commence first aid upon realising that Neely was out, after he'd retrieved his hat, that is, priorities.
whereas the assistant allegedly checking pulse and fending off concerned bystanders with pat answers may not be trained in very much at all by the way he conducted himself, Penny certainly had the necessary training.

He must have realised that Neely was quite dead.
It's not rocket science.



He did nothing.

I'm pretty sure the DA will be looking at that and I'm wondering whether additional charged will be applied?
If JN was "quite dead" why did LE wait nine minutes to call EMT's?

If I see a complete stranger cough up blood and mucus, I'm not about to put my lips against his and do complete CPR. No way.

JMO
 
  • #87
BBM. I'm confident all the witnesses know about what preceded the chokehold.

JMO
I agree. They were eyewitnesses to the ranting, terrorizing, and everything that followed.
 
  • #88
If JN was "quite dead" why did LE wait nine minutes to call EMT's?

If I see a complete stranger cough up blood and mucus, I'm not about to put my lips against his and do complete CPR. No way.

JMO
That is exactly why the American Heart Association is now recommending “hands only” or “compressions only” CPR for. On-medical personnel.

Through their years of research they determined that the reason many bystanders fail to perform CPR even when trained is because they do not want to provide rescue breathing.
 
  • #89
.

You can still perform compressions only CPR even with severe throat injuries.
Very true! And LE waited 9 minutes to call EMTs so it's likely JN still had a pulse after LE got there.

JMO
 
  • #90
That is exactly why the American Heart Association is now recommending “hands only” or “compressions only” CPR for. On-medical personnel.

Through their years of research they determined that the reason many bystanders fail to perform CPR even when trained is because they do not want to provide rescue breathing.
I read that is what they now recommend. Plus, Covid would be a deterrent for sure.

JMO
 
  • #91
That is exactly why the American Heart Association is now recommending “hands only” or “compressions only” CPR for. On-medical personnel.

Through their years of research they determined that the reason many bystanders fail to perform CPR even when trained is because they do not want to provide rescue breathing.
You know you can clear an airway with your bare hands?

edit link, sorry
 
  • #92
Coughing up blood and mucus can also be a sign of drug overdose.


Sure, but when I hear hooves, I think horses. I await the autopsy in order to change to zebras.

Since choking/coughing up blood mucus is also a symptom of having windpipe crushed during a chokehold, I'm going with that. If Mr. Neely had been coughing up bloody mucus before the chokehold, I'd hold a different opinion.

No reason for me to ignore the cause of death or the signs of impending death. I don't think Mr. Neely died of a drug overdose, but again, we just don't know.

IMO.
 
  • #93
I read that is what they now recommend. Plus, Covid would be a deterrent for sure.

JMO

And yet, many of us trained in CPR still carry barriers. The in-home nurses I know all do. Those trained in CPR can decide not to do the mouth breathing. But there were plenty of serious, airborne/mouth borne illnesses before COVID.

For the average person (who doesn't have barriers handy for CPR, hands only is recommended). But it's not going to save as many lives - there's a reason that people need to breathe and when they can't, someone else can breathe for them. Using a simple and effective barrier like this one:

CPR shields for your key chain.

IMO. I sure hope that people do not get to where they aren't willing to do proper CPR.
 
  • #94
And yet, many of us trained in CPR still carry barriers. The in-home nurses I know all do. Those trained in CPR can decide not to do the mouth breathing. But there were plenty of serious, airborne/mouth borne illnesses before COVID.

For the average person (who doesn't have barriers handy for CPR, hands only is recommended). But it's not going to save as many lives - there's a reason that people need to breathe and when they can't, someone else can breathe for them. Using a simple and effective barrier like this one:

CPR shields for your key chain.

IMO. I sure hope that people do not get to where they aren't willing to do proper CPR.
Bystanders and non-medical personnel are much more likely to perform CPR if they are trained in compressions only CPR. I’m an instructor for American Heart Association and I teach around 100- 120 classes every year. We have an entire section in our classes now about conventional CPR vs hands only CPR.

It is actually more effective for non-medical bystanders to concentrate on providing quality chest compressions rather than switching between breaths and compressions for conventional CPR.
 
  • #95
Coughing up blood and mucus can also be a sign of drug overdose.


Yup. They tried to convince us death was caused by everything but neck compression with George Floyd too. It didn’t fly.


From the link:
Despite video evidence of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for more than nine minutes, a viral social media post claims Floyd's death was the result of a drug overdose.

"Derek Chauvin is not responsible for George Floyd's drug overdose," reads a screenshot of a tweet shared to Instagram on April 20 with more than 5,000 likes.

In the photo's caption, the user added other misleading claims such as: Floyd had COVID-19; had no injuries to his neck, muscles, esophagus trachea or brain; he went into cardiac arrest from drug overdose; and his lungs were three times normal size, "indicative of opiate overdose."

Similar versions of the claim have been shared across other platforms. One Facebook page wrote on April 20, "Science says Floyd died of an overdose & also says he wasn't suffocated."
————
More from the link:

While findings from Floyd's autopsy revealed 11 nanograms per milliliter of fentanyl in his blood, medical experts called as prosecution witnesses agreed the amount of fentanyl was not enough to be considered fatal.

Dr. Daniel Isenschmid, a forensic toxicologist at NMS Labs in Pennsylvania, testified and presented data showing the levels of methamphetamine found in Floyd's system were lower than the average amount found in 94% of DUI cases in 2020.

Cardiologist Jonathan Rich told the court: "I can state with a high degree of medical certainty that George Floyd did not die from a primary cardiac event, and he did not die from a drug overdose."

Rich added had it not been for Chauvin's restraint, he believes Floyd would have lived.
 
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  • #96
If JN was "quite dead" why did LE wait nine minutes to call EMT's?

And LE waited 9 minutes to call EMTs so it's likely JN still had a pulse after LE got there.

The only reference I’ve found about the EMTs being called nine minutes after LE arrived is in Wikipedia with no reference footnote. I can’t find anything in MSM about this time lapse. Do you have a link?


The New York Police Department received a call about a fight on the train at 2:27 p.m., and arrived before 2:30 p.m., administering first aid to an unconscious Neely.[2][35][36] The New York City Fire Department received its call for help at 2:39 p.m., arriving at 2:46 p.m.. At least five 9-1-1 calls were made,
 
  • #97
Bystanders and non-medical personnel are much more likely to perform CPR if they are trained in compressions only CPR. I’m an instructor for American Heart Association and I teach around 100- 120 classes every year. We have an entire section in our classes now about conventional CPR vs hands only CPR.

It is actually more effective for non-medical bystanders to concentrate on providing quality chest compressions rather than switching between breaths and compressions for conventional CPR.
That's very interesting and likely how LE and the military are trained these days. Is it known how long a person can remain alive with just the chest compressions?

JMO
 
  • #98
The only reference I’ve found about the EMTs being called nine minutes after LE arrived is in Wikipedia with no reference footnote. I can’t find anything in MSM about this time lapse. Do you have a link?


The New York Police Department received a call about a fight on the train at 2:27 p.m., and arrived before 2:30 p.m., administering first aid to an unconscious Neely.[2][35][36] The New York City Fire Department received its call for help at 2:39 p.m., arriving at 2:46 p.m.. At least five 9-1-1 calls were made,
RSBM

So that means there was no 15 minute chokehold. All Media driven...
 
  • #99
RSBM

So that means there was no 15 minute chokehold. All Media driven...

Read my post again, please. We are talking about the length of time between LE’S arrival and calling EMTs. I think you’re mistaking this for the reported possible length of the chokehold. The times are totally unrelated and not what I referred to in the Wikipedia article I cited..

I asked @MyBelle if she had found an MSM link regarding when the EMTs were called.

ETA: Ordinary people write the Wikipedia articles and links are sometimes missing.
 
  • #100
Read my post again, please. We are talking about the length of time between LE’S arrival and calling EMTs. I think you’re mistaking this for the reported possible length of the chokehold. The times are totally unrelated and not what I referred to in the Wikipedia article I cited..

I asked @MyBelle if she had found an MSM link regarding when the EMTs were called.
I don't need to read it again...where did the 15 minutes come from. Your post reads " The New York Police Department received a call about a fight on the train at 2:27 p.m., and arrived before 2:30 p.m., administering first aid to an unconscious Neely.
 
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