NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[Cryptic]

Is it possible there's a witness that was present for both incident's? A regular train rider perhaps?

I agree with @kittythehare

The witness would have needed to be on the same train and in the same car.

Such an occurance would be somewhat plausible if the both riders boarded a very late, or very early train early in its starting point in what I have heard New Yorkers call "furthest Brooklyn" or "furthest Bronx" etc. Maybe regular commuters with the same start time and start point.

But.... as the day progresses and given the sheer size of NYC and the subway system, I think the odds get extremely small.

 

[wary]

I don't believe anyone here has implied that he did?

What? There’s been virtually nonstop calling Penny a murderer. That certainly brings ‘intentional’ into play.

 

[kittythehare]

rsbm. I do wonder if Penny was given a toxicology test. Would go a long way in explaining why a knowledgable marine would ignore his own training. imo

Been on my mind too.
Very much so but I wouldn't be surprised if he was not.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I agree with @kittythehare

The witness would have needed to be on the same train and in the same car.

Such an occurance would be somewhat plausible if the both riders boarded a very late, or very early train early in its starting point in what I have heard New Yorkers call "furthest Brooklyn" or "furthest Bronx" etc. Maybe regular commuters with the same start time and start point.

But.... as the day progresses and given the sheer size of NYC and the subway system, I think the odds get extremely small.

I'm not going to rule it out at this time because we don't know what all of the witness's told LE. JMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Well, I tell you truthfully I am not virtue signalling when I say again that he is not on trial and to put him on trial after he has been , in effect, colloquially, murdered is reading like an attempt to exonerate his killer or attribute him with psychic abilities we do not know he possesses.

I'm sure the investigation will reveal details of Penny's character that may not be pleasant either.

Because a normal person would not have behaved as Penny behaved on the day he killed Neely.
That is the criteria for a grand jury..
And that is my opinion.

<modsnip>

Jordan Neely's past violent criminal record is entirely relevant to the case, since it's his violent threats on the train that caused the scuffle that day, and unfortunately also his death. Also, he was not murdered. Colloquially or otherwise. The charge is 2nd degree manslaughter which means recklessly causing the death of another person. Daniel Penny 100% absolutely did that, unfortunately, as he attempted to restrain him and prevent him from acting out whatever threats he was making. Penny didn't need to be psychic, he had first person experience with him that day. Along with every other passenger in the car. No prior criminal history needed, no mystical gifts or talents required.

jmo

 

[HmmMysterious]

<modsnip>

Jordan Neely's past violent criminal record is entirely relevant to the case, since it's his violent threats on the train that caused the scuffle that day, and unfortunately also his death. Also, he was not murdered. Colloquially or otherwise. The charge is 2nd degree manslaughter which means recklessly causing the death of another person. Daniel Penny 100% absolutely did that, unfortunately, as he attempted to restrain him and prevent him from acting out whatever threats he was making. Penny didn't need to be psychic, he had first person experience with him that day. Along with every other passenger in the car. No prior criminal history needed, no mystical gifts or talents required.

jmo

He wasn't hitting/attacking anyone on that train though. Yeah restraining him by putting Neely in a choke-hold that other Marines have called too extreme.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I don't believe anyone here has implied that he did?

Constantly. Do a thread search for "murder".

 

[elevatorific]

Constantly. Do a thread search for "murder".

I actually did! I searched both threads. The vast majority are not people calling this a murder.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Was Jordan Neely widely know to subway riders as being a Michael Jackson impersonator?

 

[kittythehare]

<modsnip>

Jordan Neely's past violent criminal record is entirely relevant to the case, since it's his violent threats on the train that caused the scuffle that day, and unfortunately also his death. Also, he was not murdered. Colloquially or otherwise. The charge is 2nd degree manslaughter which means recklessly causing the death of another person. Daniel Penny 100% absolutely did that, unfortunately, as he attempted to restrain him and prevent him from acting out whatever threats he was making. Penny didn't need to be psychic, he had first person experience with him that day. Along with every other passenger in the car. No prior criminal history needed, no mystical gifts or talents required.

jmo

Penny only had his own perceptions that day.
He acted them out.
It remains to be seen whether they were highly flawed or rational.
It also remains to be seen whether restraint was reasonable when all circumstances are taken into account.

Penny has been charged with manslaughter 2.

BASED UPON ACTUAL EVIDENCE collected in the course of the investigation to date, evidence that we have not seen and evidence that is not contingent upon Neely's past record.
Those are the facts of the case <modsnip - quoted post was snipped>

 

[elevatorific]

Was Jordan Neely widely know to subway riders as being a Michael Jackson impersonator?

None of the witnesses that we have heard from at this time have said they recognized him or knew him.

Elsewhere in NYC, yes he was known for that and he was known for being mentally ill.

 

[Ontario Mom]

He probably 'attacked' a lot of people.
I often got a box from a patient.
If you're asking whether Neely was guilty of ageism as well as schizophrenia addiction and God only knows what else, I don't know.
I'm not sure it's useful to retrospectively diagnose him or even blame him.
He is the victim, after all.

My apologies but I'm unable to discern what that means, the bolded above.
Hoping you can clarify.

 

[MyBelle]

He wasn't hitting/attacking anyone on that train though. Yeah restraining him by putting Neely in a choke-hold that other Marines have called too extreme.

BBM. JN's threats of violence and throwing things are why JN was restrained according to media reports. Opinions of other Marines are irrelevant if they weren't witnesses.

JMO

 

[kittythehare]

My apologies but I'm unable to discern what that means, the bolded above.
Hoping you can clarify.

I could but I'd be guilty of power posting and there are lots of others on this thread.
Shall we leave it there?
Peace out!

 

[MyBelle]

Was Jordan Neely widely know to subway riders as being a Michael Jackson impersonator?

I read somewhere that he hadn't been an MY impersonator for several years. I have no idea if anyone would recognize him out of his costume.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

None of the witnesses that we have heard from at this time have said they recognized him or knew him.

Elsewhere in NYC, yes he was known for that and he was known for being mentally ill.

What do you mean by "elsewhere"? Isn't the subways where he did his Micheal Jackson act?

 

[Ontario Mom]

I actually did! I searched both threads. The vast majority are not people calling this a murder.

Thankfully the majority are not. Except for the ones who still are, which answers the OP's comment

"I don't believe anyone here has implied that he did?" referring to "murdering" Neely.

 

[elevatorific]

What do you mean by "elsewhere"? Isn't the subways where he did his Micheal Jackson act?

I think he also did it out on the streets, but it's not clear he'd been doing it anywhere at any point recently.
By "elsewhere" I mean people in NYC but not the ones on this F train on this day.

 

[Betty P]

What do you mean by "elsewhere"? Isn't the subways where he did his Micheal Jackson act?

A lot of performers do their sidewalk shows around Times Square. There are lots of them around there.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Thankfully the majority are not. Except for the ones who still are, which answers the OP's comment

"I don't believe anyone here has implied that he did?" referring to "murdering" Neely.

I've seen it pop up on the threads. I've asked a couple of posters if they thought DA Braggs undercharged Mr Penny but they didn't respond.

I've seen it said by others that they didn't really mean murder when they said murder which I find strange for a true crime forum. JMO.