NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[Rolypolyoly]

Constantly. Do a thread search for "murder".

I get where you're coming from, I just think that's people's poor interpretation of what happened and the fact that Neely was killed when Penny could and should have stopped, so some have called him a murderer (not me) but I don't believe that they think that Daniel Penny made a decision to kill Jordan Neely before he stepped up behind him.

Maybe I should have said that instead.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

None of the witnesses that we have heard from at this time have said they recognized him or knew him.

Elsewhere in NYC, yes he was known for that and he was known for being mentally ill.

And in the interest of fairness, he was also known for being violent, before anyone accuses you of leaving that part out

 

[Jade]

<RSBM>

If you're looking for ways to demonize Daniel Penny regarding his Samson tattoo & use Christian Scripture to justify it, you're going to find exactly what you're looking for. It's pretty easy to take it out of context, actually. If you've ever studied Biblical theology, especially OT (Old Testament) theology, it's even easier.

You could really go a couple of different ways with this. One, like you did, and the other, which conjures up considerations of humility in the face of chaos and trusting in God even when things look or feel impossible, the way Samson trusted God to give him the strength and the ability to defend Israel against it's enemies.

On the other hand, if you don't know Penny, his life, his views on the Scriptures, or what that art from Charles Brock (the depiction of Samuel killing the lion with his bare hands) actually means to him, it's all 100% speculation and most probably inaccurate.

Truth is, Penny might not even be a Christian (I don't know if it's been mentioned at all), and he may know absolutely nothing about who Samson was and what his role was in fighting off the Philistines to defend Israel. He might have just seen the image (maybe some other guy in the service had one) and thought it looked pretty cool, and got the tattoo.

Unless DP himself comes along and tells us, we're never going to know.

jmo

Thanks I knew I would see what I was looking for as I was familiar with the verses. That's why I provided links with the actual verses.
Of course the entire Bible is open to interpretation as takes place every Sunday at pulpits.


I’m willing to accept that Penny chose for his large chest tattoo Samson, a violent hottie with long curly hair, because it just caught his eye.

Most tattoos are very personal but, yeah, it could have just been an empty headed impulse.

The karma though if that’s the case.


all imo

 

[Cryptic]

What do you mean by "elsewhere"? Isn't the subways where he did his Micheal Jackson act?

There are also photos of him performing in the Times Square area.

From my visits, I believe that NYC street performers may need permits. The established ones that I have seen in Central Park and Times Square usually had a permit or license displayed.

I dont know how rigorously this enforced though. Perhaps during periods of higher enforcement, Neely would keep to the subways more?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Thanks I knew I would see what I was looking for as I was familiar with the verses. That's why I provided links with the actual verses.
Of course the entire Bible is open to interpretation as takes place every Sunday at pulpits.


I’m willing to accept that Penny chose for his large chest tattoo Samson, a violent hottie with long curly hair, because it just caught his eye.

Most tattoos are very personal but, yeah, it could have just been an empty headed impulse.

The karma though if that’s the case.


all imo

I can honestly say I've never heard Samson described like that.

jmo

 

[kittythehare]

I've seen it pop up on the threads. I've asked a couple of posters if they thought DA Braggs undercharged Mr Penny but they didn't respond.

I've seen it said by others that they didn't really mean murder when they said murder which I find strange for a true crime forum. JMO.

Take it from an expert who explains why manslaughter is known colloquially as murder.

Vigilante Killings on the Subway Are Not Legal or Moral

Days after Daniel Penny was charged with killing Jordan Neely, a pro-vigilante crowd has emerged to defend his actions. But what are they really saying?

www.thenation.com

 

[Ontario Mom]

<modsnip - quoted post and response removed> I'm sure that there are many military and LE that would agree the choke hold was improperly deployed. As far as I can tell, that hasn't even been debated here.

jmo

 

[Rolypolyoly]

My apologies but I'm unable to discern what that means, the bolded above.
Hoping you can

Sorry, I accidentally deleted a bit of your post.

Anyhow, I interpreted @kittythehare's post to mean she has a hit/punch/slap from a patient during her career.

In the UK people used to say they "would box your ears" which meant clip you in them, I'm betting its the same in Ireland.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Take it from an expert who explains why manslaughter is known colloquially as murder.

Vigilante Killings on the Subway Are Not Legal or Moral

Days after Daniel Penny was charged with killing Jordan Neely, a pro-vigilante crowd has emerged to defend his actions. But what are they really saying?

www.thenation.com

Expert or no, the implication on this thread is that Penny murdered Neely and that is misleading, and not factual according to the charges. I'm not sure why it keeps coming up, but it shouldn't.

jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Take it from an expert who explains why manslaughter is known colloquially as murder.

Vigilante Killings on the Subway Are Not Legal or Moral

Days after Daniel Penny was charged with killing Jordan Neely, a pro-vigilante crowd has emerged to defend his actions. But what are they really saying?

www.thenation.com

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[kittythehare]

Sorry, I accidentally deleted a bit of your post.

Anyhow, I interpreted @kittythehare's post to mean she has a hit/punch/slap from a patient during her career.

In the UK people used to say they "would box your ears" which meant clip you in them, I'm betting its the same in Ireland.

Was that not clear?
I assumed box was universal.
Thanks Roly.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Expert or no, the implication on this thread is that Penny murdered Neely and that is misleading, and not factual according to the charges. I'm not sure why it keeps coming up, but it shouldn't.

jmo

I agree that it shouldn't. That's why I invited the people who said he was murdered to explain why the DA charged second degree manslaughter.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Sorry, I accidentally deleted a bit of your post.

Anyhow, I interpreted @kittythehare's post to mean she has a hit/punch/slap from a patient during her career.

In the UK people used to say they "would box your ears" which meant clip you in them, I'm betting its the same in Ireland.

Thanks, I didn't realize that's what that meant in the UK and Ireland. I'm an American living in Canada and I've never heard the saying here. "Box your ears" yes, but not getting a box, or however it was stated. Sometimes our slang or regional sayings in different countries can be confusing.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Thanks, I didn't realize that's what that meant in the UK and Ireland. I'm an American living in Canada and I've never heard the saying here. "Box your ears" yes, but not getting a box, or however it was stated. Sometimes our slang or regional sayings in different countries can be confusing.

Lol, this is true. I'm always away googling something I've read here because I've never heard of it

 

[everybodhi]

>snipped
One issue that I think will be brought up at trial is whether Bragg was the DA when JN received the plea deal for the viscous attack of the elderly woman. JN walked away from the treatment center and that's why the arrest warrant was issued.

JMO

Our justice system does not allow previous crimes to be introduced as evidence of the character of the accused in criminal trials, it is unduly prejudicial as it negates the presumption of innocence. The rule excluding evidence of criminal propensity is nearly three centuries old in the common law.
I don’t think they will allow previous crimes to be used against a dead victim either. Jmo
If the law judged manslaughter by previous crimes of the victims, it would follow that citizens are authorized to kill all violent criminals.
I don’t think any of Bragg’s prior plea deals will be on trial either. Jmo
The court of public opinion can go all over the place but only Penny will be on trial in the courtroom.

 

[Jade]

I can honestly say I've never heard Samson described like that.

jmo

Have you never then seen the famous depictions of Samson?

Head back back to the Bible for the details. I've already provided links!

Obviously never attended long days of summer vacation Bible camp. Samson is about all you have in the Bible for a bad boy hottie.

imo

 

[Laughing]

Have you never then seen the famous depictions of Samson?

Head back back to the Bible for the details. I've already provided links!

Obviously never attended long days of summer vacation Bible camp. Samson is about all you have in the Bible for a bad boy hottie.

imo

Just not going to actual Biblical interpretation, but -- no and no.

Years of experience with VBS as a child & adult, and and multiple stints leading adult Sunday school.

Proof-texting is an enemy of reason.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[MyBelle]

Our justice system does not allow previous crimes to be introduced as evidence of the character of the accused in criminal trials, it is unduly prejudicial as it negates the presumption of innocence. The rule excluding evidence of criminal propensity is nearly three centuries old in the common law.
I don’t think they will allow previous crimes to be used against a dead victim either. Jmo
If the law judged manslaughter by previous crimes of the victims, it would follow that citizens are authorized to kill all violent criminals.
I don’t think any of Bragg’s prior plea deals will be on trial either. Jmo
The court of public opinion can go all over the place but only Penny will be on trial in the courtroom.

BBM. Penny has no previous crimes that I am aware of and I'm confident his defense attorney knows the law.
And, btw, citizens are allowed to protect themselves when threatened. It's called, "self-defense."

JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Our justice system does not allow previous crimes to be introduced as evidence of the character of the accused in criminal trials, it is unduly prejudicial as it negates the presumption of innocence. The rule excluding evidence of criminal propensity is nearly three centuries old in the common law.
I don’t think they will allow previous crimes to be used against a dead victim either. Jmo
If the law judged manslaughter by previous crimes of the victims, it would follow that citizens are authorized to kill all violent criminals.
I don’t think any of Bragg’s prior plea deals will be on trial either. Jmo
The court of public opinion can go all over the place but only Penny will be on trial in the courtroom.

If a witness who was on the train says that they were afraid of Mr Neely because they had seen him act violently in the past and his current actions made them feel he was about do it again, would they be allowed to testify to that at trial?

 

[elevatorific]

BBM. Penny has no previous crimes that I am aware of and I'm confident his defense attorney knows the law.
And, btw, citizens are allowed to protect themselves when threatened. It's called, "self-defense."

JMO

BBM - Keep in mind that the law differs dramatically between "stand your ground" states and "duty to retreat" states. New York is a duty to retreat state.