NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[MyBelle]

I think you are right. Building on that - a contributor to what is unfolding here in NYC is that prior to COVID, there were volunteers staffing both city-run and nonprofit shelters. There were warmhearted volunteers helping 24/7 to manage these extremely difficult cases in safe spaces, to the extent that was possible and that the recipient of the services permitted it. COVID hit, those shelters shut down to prevent spread of pandemic, and they have never returned, nor have the volunteers. So many of these mentally-ill victims - and I do see them as victims, of the illness - moved to the warm, 24/7 open subways, and suddenly the visibility of this problem was tremendous as opposed to hidden away. I went years getting on the E train at 14th in a station that was clean and safe. If i attempted that right now, tonight, I’d be stepping over drugged-out bodies grabbing at my ankles.

At least the Mayor is trying. Unfortunately, JN fell through the cracks and I do hope there is an investigation into why.

JMO

Mayor Adams Unveils Ambitious Mental Health Agenda

Mayor Adams Unveils Ambitious Mental Health Agenda

www.nyc.gov

"In November, when I laid out my plan to help those with serious mental illness who are living on the street, I said it was just the beginning. This is the next phase of how we are going to help people in need before they fall into crisis, by ensuring everyone has access to healthcare, community and a home. To support people with serious mental illness and their families who are going to improve access to specialty care and primary care regardless of need. New York City Health and Hospitals, which already provides 55 percent of all the mental health beds for New York City, will be expanding capacity in the coming months to meet demand. Who will also increase the city's crisis services, including adding additional peers to mobile crisis teams, and expanding the behavioral health emergency assistance response division, or be heard as we call it."

 

[SugarQueen]

A little info on K2/ Spice…
K2 & Spice (Synthetic Marijuana) Withdrawals & Side-Effects | Vermilion Behavioral Health Systems

Behavioral symptoms:

• Sudden, extreme bouts of hyperactivity
• Sudden, extreme bouts of lethargy
• Sudden, unprovoked, and extreme angry outbursts
• Physical aggression

 

[Recidivist]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I wonder this: This man did not die from a drug overdose, according to the medical examiner. But did drug addiction start the chain of events leading to his death? Was drug addiction the foremost factor in his being homeless? His family maybe choosing not to house him because they could no longer live with consequences of his addiction? Living with an addicted family member or loved one is pure hell and a hopeless situation to find oneself facing. Was drugs or addiction the cause of his unsettling behavior on the train? Was it drugs that led him to behave in such a way, that others felt threatened?

I am aware that NY has had the ability to feed and shelter the influx of immigrants coming from other countries. But not one of its own citizens? A hungry person should be able to get food at places other than a subway train. Here in So. Cal, there are shelters available, and a very high percentage of the homeless, is due to a choice they made. They prefer to have freedom to do drugs, and therefore reject the shelters and its rules.

So even if the cause of death wasn't a drug overdose, drugs most likely played a huge factor in the circumstances leading to his death. There are no viable solutions until the underlying cause is addressed. And the underlying cause is drugs.

imo...of course

 

[caradana]

I wonder this: This man did not die from a drug overdose, according to the medical examiner. But did drug addiction start the chain of events leading to his death? Was drug addiction the foremost factor in his being homeless? His family maybe choosing not to house him because they could no longer live with consequences of his addiction? Living with an addicted family member or loved one is pure hell and a hopeless situation to find oneself facing. Was drugs or addiction the cause of his unsettling behavior on the train? Was it drugs that led him to behave in such a way, that others felt threatened?

I am aware that NY has had the ability to feed and shelter the influx of immigrants coming from other countries. But not one of its own citizens? A hungry person should be able to get food at places other than a subway train. Here in So. Cal, there are shelters available, and a very high percentage of the homeless, is due to a choice they made. They prefer to have freedom to do drugs, and therefore reject the shelters and its rules.

So even if the cause of death wasn't a drug overdose, drugs most likely played a huge factor in the circumstances leading to his death. There are no viable solutions until the underlying cause is addressed. And the underlying cause is drugs.

imo...of course

Excellent post. Can we together factor in, though, the information shared in this NYT article? Jordan Neely Was on New York’s ‘Top 50’ List of Homeless People at Risk
He was personally escorted to safe haven shelters …
he was assessed by a team at end of line when he urinated in the subway car …
his mother had died in a DV incident years before …
what else could social services have possibly done …

 

[MyBelle]

Doesn’t it usually take multiple weeks for the toxicology report to come back?

just my MOO and memories

Yes, I think that is the reason Penny's attorney said at the time of Penny's arrest, he hadn't yet received the autopsy report. And last week, he said there is more video that has not been released.

JMO

Daniel Penny's attorney says Jordan Neely chokehold case should not be politicized

Thomas Kenniff hints there is more to the story that left his client facing a second-degree manslaughter charge.

www.cbsnews.com

"There has been some video that is out. It's not all out. There is more to come," Kenniff said. "I am confident that everything that will come out will show that my client took reasonable steps to restrain someone."

 

[MyBelle]

I wonder this: This man did not die from a drug overdose, according to the medical examiner. But did drug addiction start the chain of events leading to his death? Was drug addiction the foremost factor in his being homeless? His family maybe choosing not to house him because they could no longer live with consequences of his addiction? Living with an addicted family member or loved one is pure hell and a hopeless situation to find oneself facing. Was drugs or addiction the cause of his unsettling behavior on the train? Was it drugs that led him to behave in such a way, that others felt threatened?

I am aware that NY has had the ability to feed and shelter the influx of immigrants coming from other countries. But not one of its own citizens? A hungry person should be able to get food at places other than a subway train. Here in So. Cal, there are shelters available, and a very high percentage of the homeless, is due to a choice they made. They prefer to have freedom to do drugs, and therefore reject the shelters and its rules.

So even if the cause of death wasn't a drug overdose, drugs most likely played a huge factor in the circumstances leading to his death. There are no viable solutions until the underlying cause is addressed. And the underlying cause is drugs.

imo...of course

BBM. I think that is exactly what happened and why Penny's attorney said there is more video that hasn't been released. It's been more than 3 weeks and still no grand jury indictment.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

I wonder this: This man did not die from a drug overdose, according to the medical examiner. But did drug addiction start the chain of events leading to his death? Was drug addiction the foremost factor in his being homeless? His family maybe choosing not to house him because they could no longer live with consequences of his addiction? Living with an addicted family member or loved one is pure hell and a hopeless situation to find oneself facing. Was drugs or addiction the cause of his unsettling behavior on the train? Was it drugs that led him to behave in such a way, that others felt threatened?

I am aware that NY has had the ability to feed and shelter the influx of immigrants coming from other countries. But not one of its own citizens? A hungry person should be able to get food at places other than a subway train. Here in So. Cal, there are shelters available, and a very high percentage of the homeless, is due to a choice they made. They prefer to have freedom to do drugs, and therefore reject the shelters and its rules.

So even if the cause of death wasn't a drug overdose, drugs most likely played a huge factor in the circumstances leading to his death. There are no viable solutions until the underlying cause is addressed. And the underlying cause is drugs.

imo...of course

I think you make good points, keeping in mind that Mr Neely had been diagnosed as schizophrenic in addition to his drug use. Either or both would have been extremely difficult for his family to deal with. And we will never know which came first. But self-medicating could certainly have been a factor in his drug use and certainly wouldn’t have helped his circumstances.

Either mental illness or both could have made his use of services difficult. He was incarcerated for 15 months and had done well until he was released to a halfway house. He was someone IMO who desperately needed ongoing inpatient treatment and/or incarceration. He was a ticking time-bomb per social workers.

 

[Sillybilly]

Doesn’t it usually take multiple weeks for the toxicology report to come back?

just my MOO and memories

While toxicology may provide additional info, the autopsy report specifies MOD was homicide and COD was compression of the neck (chokehold). Even if drugs were to be found in the victim's system it would not change those findings.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Sharing a MSM article that I hope casts more light on this case. This was not an event in isolation; trained social services personnel, paid by NYC, were anticipating disaster: Jordan Neely Was on New York’s ‘Top 50’ List of Homeless People at Risk

I hope those who take the time to read that come back here and opine on the amount of social services care he received, the number of teams and interventions and trained mental-health care interactions he experienced regardless of the open warrants against him. The in-person accompaniment he got to a safe haven shelter in the Bronx. The zero-cost rehab stints he walked out of. Please read that and come back and opine as to how social services failed this man.

TY for posting about the existence of that list, which until two or so days ago, I didn’t even know existed.

I also agree that not enough people know the vast attempts made to TRY and get the homeless and people in extremis taken care of, instead preferring to jump right on the convenient knee jerk bandwagon that insists nobody is trying... how do you force people to accept your help?

 

[Sillybilly]

Killing of Jordan Neely - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wiki is a general reference which can be edited, so for those who prefer MSM, the info re blood and mucus is also sourced to Chris Sommerfeldt, reporter with New York Daily News which is acceptable MSM.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread is closed until morning. Please Report so a Mod can reopen it in the morning.

 

[Knitty]

Thread is open.

 

[Jade]

Link, please, that DP's tattoo is the Biblical Samson & the lion.

ADMIN NOTE:

After discussion with Tricia, WS will allow members to respectfully discuss the following.

At NY Post and TMZ, there are images of Daniel Penny where he has a chest tattoo that appears to portray the biblical story of Samson battling/slaying the lion.

Marine who put Jordan Neely in chokehold on NYC subway identified as Daniel Penny

The Marine who put Jordan Neely in a chokehold on an NYC subway has been identified.

nypost.com

from: Marine Vet Daniel Penny Arrested for Manslaughter in Jordan Neely Death

View attachment 424191

We are allowing this discussion with the caveat that ... Members may speculate and reasonably discuss the tattoo and its possible meaning, but remember to state your opinion without bickering or engaging in extensive or contentious religious/biblical discussion.

While opinions may vary, posts that are determined to be antagonistic, inflammatory or inciteful will be removed, so please post accordingly.

Click on the picture on the link to enlarge it and to see the tattoo clearly.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Click on the picture on the link to enlarge it and to see the tattoo clearly.

Can you provide the specific link that allows the viewer to actually zoom in and see a clear, high-res image? All the links I've seen are to the same exact image that isn't clear at all when you zoom in.

It does however appear to be a depiction of CE Brock's illustration of Samson and the Lion https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/n...to-pieces-and-the-spirit-news-photo/590131460

 

[Jade]

Can you provide the specific link that allows the viewer to actually zoom in and see a clear, high-res image? All the links I've seen are to the same exact image that isn't clear at all when you zoom in.

It does however appear to be a depiction of CE Brock's illustration of Samson and the Lion https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/n...to-pieces-and-the-spirit-news-photo/590131460

I see it clearly when I click and enlarge the picture on my desktop computer which is pretty high quality.

Silly Billy mentions TMZ has a picture too.


all imo

 

[Betty P]

Sad. I wonder what the solution is...the issues of the "unhoused" in the United States is really getting to a tipping point. Unhoused people have become, as a group, more erratic and unstable. There are many threads on WS about mentally ill unhoused people who have done crimes against others. And, they had a long list of previous incidents. Just a matter of time...

It's puzzling, maddening, ridiculous, JMO, that the US is not dealing with a problem they've experienced periodically over the centuries. Its as if our leaders are no longer in touch with the needs of our communities or are unaware that leaving a growing population of unhoused people will somehow reinforce a sick "bootstrapping" mythology.

This is not how productive societies operate. The richest nation in the world should have enough collective common sense to make sure everyone has food and shelter. JMO

 

[SugarQueen]

I don’t know that we can blamed NYC, the state, or the USA for all of the homeless. We have shelters, soup kitchens, access to social services, outreach programs, etc. while I’m sure we could use more in the lines of shelters these things only help if people use them.
A lot of homeless don’t want the rules shelters have. MOOOOO

 

[squareandrabbet]

I don’t know that we can blamed NYC, the state, or the USA for all of the homeless. We have shelters, soup kitchens, access to social services, outreach programs, etc. while I’m sure we could use more in the lines of shelters these things only help if people use them.
A lot of homeless don’t want the rules shelters have. MOOOOO

I remember a story at the beginning of the pandemic, quoting a NYC transgender homeless person who earned their living via selling sex… unfortunately for them, this career choice in particular, meant they could not take advantage of the free hotel rooms then being offered by the government to the unhoused, which sounds like kind of cutting off your nose to spite your face to me…

I mean, I’m sure it’s not easy either way, with a then-concomitant lack of legit jobs caused by the pandemic to to engage in; but plenty of people do things like DoorDash while living on the street…
and having a place to rest your head, that is controlled by a lock keeping you from being molested by the population at large, which provides you with amenities like electricity, etc., is a big leg up, and to not take advantage of that sounds rather counterproductive to me.

 

[Charlot123]

A little info on K2/ Spice…
K2 & Spice (Synthetic Marijuana) Withdrawals & Side-Effects | Vermilion Behavioral Health Systems

Behavioral symptoms:

• Sudden, extreme bouts of hyperactivity
• Sudden, extreme bouts of lethargy
• Sudden, unprovoked, and extreme angry outbursts
• Physical aggression

Good we are discussing it.

Synthetic Cannabinoids | National Institute on Drug Abuse

Synthetic cannabinoids are human-made mind-altering chemicals that are either sprayed on dried, shredded plant material so they can be smoked or sold as liquids to be vaporized and inhaled in e-cigarettes and other devices.

nida.nih.gov

Here is the newest one. Not about spice but about cannabis use disorder and schizophrenia. The results of a 50-year-long Danish study

“The study team estimated that 15% of cases of schizophrenia among men aged 16-49 may have been avoided in 2021 by preventing cannabis use disorder, in contrast to 4% among women aged 16-49. For young men aged 21-30, they estimated that the proportion of preventable cases of schizophrenia related to cannabis use disorder may be as high as 30%.”

Young men at highest risk of schizophrenia linked with cannabis use disorder

NIH study highlights the need to proactively screen for, prevent, and treat cannabis use disorder especially among young people.

www.nih.gov

 

[kittythehare]

Daniel Penny Plans to Testify Before Grand Jury in Subway Chokehold Case (Published 2023)

Daniel Penny, charged with manslaughter in the killing of Jordan Neely, is expected to argue that he acted in self-defense.

www.nytimes.com