GUILTY NY - Vincent Viafore, 46, Newburgh, 19 April 2015 - #1

[BunnyHop]

That's what I'm thinking. We have kayaks too but they are the sit-upon, Frenzy type ocean kayaks. I think you'd have to punch a big hole in order for it to sink.

Right, and why didn't he hold onto the oar and doggy-kick his way back to shore. It's not like he wasn't a good swimmer.

I did some research and sit-on tops are supposedly unsinkable.

IMO, there are other witnesses as well and LE is holding info close.
(and rightfully so) We know nothing about boaters/rescue.
I believe there's a lot more to this story that we don't know yet.
There are many unanswered questions.

I hope they find him soon, so his family can have some closure.
I really feel for them.

 

[JerseyGirl]

According to this article, it says she pulled the drain plug.

Also:

Graswald has raised $120,000 with an online defense fund and friends were in court Wednesday to show their support for her.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/13/angelika-graswald-kayak-tampering-fiance/

 

[Kadoober]

We only have her word that she wanted out. I still think HE wanted out. She had quit her job in a previous relationship and allowed the guy to support her according to a link I'm too tired to look for...so I don't think she wanted to work. If he was calling things off and changing his insurance, I can see her reacting with calculated fury...much like Jodi Arias. Women scorned often don't take it well (nor do men).

Agreed, as far as her word goes. I should have noted that I was speculating wildly

Trying to wrap my mind around making the leap from wanting money/being lazy to murder. I know it happens darn near all the time, but I just can't wrap my brain around it.

 

[BunnyHop]

We only have her word that she wanted out. I still think HE wanted out. She had quit her job in a previous relationship and allowed the guy to support her according to a link I'm too tired to look for...so I don't think she wanted to work. If he was calling things off and changing his insurance, I can see her reacting with calculated fury...much like Jodi Arias. Women scorned often don't take it well (nor do men).

I agree.

 

[Kadoober]

According to this article, it says she pulled the drain plug.

Also:

Graswald has raised $120,000 with an online defense fund and friends were in court Wednesday to show their support for her.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/13/angelika-graswald-kayak-tampering-fiance/

That just doesn't make sense. Aside from Bunnyhops pictures of how small the plug is (granted, different kayak, I know), I find it hard to believe he would put a kayak in the water with the plug open. I find it hard to believe that if he DID do that, that he wouldn't notice the plug open at some point, and start heading back to land when he either saw it, or noticed the kayak was filling with water. There has to be more than this, don't you think? I'm guessing drugs of some sort. All just my uneducated and uniformed opinion.

 

[JerseyGirl]

I would think if the plug was pulled before he got into it and put it in the water (how else would she be able to tamper with it), why didn't he realize that water was rushing in while close to shore, rather than realize he's in trouble more than halfway back to the mainland from the island?

I can't imagine her pulling the plug when they were in the middle of the Hudson.

Makes no sense.

 

[Momoffourboys]

According to this article, it says she pulled the drain plug.

Also:

Graswald has raised $120,000 with an online defense fund and friends were in court Wednesday to show their support for her.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/13/angelika-graswald-kayak-tampering-fiance/

From your link:

Graswald has raised $120,000 with an online defense fund and friends were in court Wednesday to show their support for her.
“I know her and I don’t believe she’s capable of doing such a thing,” said one supporter.
“I don’t see any evidence. Is there a kayak tampering? Is there actual evidence?” said Gradwald’s neighbor Todd Guidine.

Why do her friends NOT believe it? She is the one who admitted to tampering with the kayak AND watching him struggle. She raised a nice chunk of change, so far. I wonder if most of her "supporters" are male friends.

 

[Inthedetails]

That just doesn't make sense. Aside from Bunnyhops pictures of how small the plug is (granted, different kayak, I know), I find it hard to believe he would put a kayak in the water with the plug open. I find it hard to believe that if he DID do that, that he wouldn't notice the plug open at some point, and start heading back to land when he either saw it, or noticed the kayak was filling with water. There has to be more than this, don't you think? I'm guessing drugs of some sort. All just my uneducated and uniformed opinion.

Could she have pulled the plug AFTER they were in the river and then tossed it away so he had no way to recover from the leak? Even with the small hole as Bunnyhop demonstrated, on a choppy river, would the waves be enough to sink him?

I wish we knew where the kayak was recovered - was it partially submerged? Floating normally? Already pulled ashore during "rescue" by boaters?

 

[JerseyGirl]

Could she have pulled the plug AFTER they were in the river and then tossed it away so he had no way to recover from the leak? Even with the small hole as Bunnyhop demonstrated, on a choppy river, would the waves be enough to sink him?

I wish we knew where the kayak was recovered - was it partially submerged? Floating normally? Already pulled ashore during "rescue" by boaters?

If he were in the kayak semi-unconscious I'd believe she'd be able to pull his kayak plug and force the opening into the water to start filing his kayak with water - but, BunnyHop's picture shows the plug at the top of the kayak. How would you get water into that tiny plug hole if the hole is above the water line?

 

[DayLea]

I fail to see how the missing drain plug resulted in his kayak capsizing. Is that really the only "tampering" that they found? Now I'm wondering if he wasn't so drugged that he actually fell asleep or passed out and that's how he capsized.

I'm starting to actually doubt the details of her confession. silly1, your comment about the smirk...you've made me wonder what else is going on here.

(Part of me is wondering if the two of them didn't stage his disappearance and she's completely screwed up her end of it. But I'll hold off on those thoughts for now. JMO and all that.)

 

[Inthedetails]

If he were in the kayak semi-unconscious I'd believe she'd be able to pull his kayak plug and force the opening into the water to start filing his kayak with water - but, BunnyHop's picture shows the plug at the top of the kayak. How would you get water into that tiny plug hole if the hole is above the water line?

I'm just brainstorming here, trying to make this work (when it really doesn't make sense to me, either). But how's this:

She gets upset with him while they are kayaking and pulls the plug. In her dramatic temper, she throws the plug into the river. It's choppy so the waves are big enough for some water to get into the kayak, but the situation is worsened because HE gets upset trying to get the plug back or grab her and his movements cause more water to get in and perhaps even cause the capsize. In the mayhem, she grabs his paddle and then watches him struggle and die.

I honestly am not thinking drugs at this point as I don't know where she would get them and I'm not convinced she has that much forethought. I think she lives in the moment, and if she gets mad, she is horrid.

JMO, speculating, thinking aloud.

 

[DayLea]

I'm just brainstorming here, trying to make this work (when it really doesn't make sense to me, either). But how's this:

She gets upset with him while they are kayaking and pulls the plug. In her dramatic temper, she throws the plug into the river. It's choppy so the waves are big enough for some water to get into the kayak, but the situation is worsened because HE gets upset trying to get the plug back or grab her and his movements cause more water to get in and perhaps even cause the capsize. In the mayhem, she grabs his paddle and then watches him struggle and die.

I honestly am not thinking drugs at this point as I don't know where she would get them and I'm not convinced she has that much forethought. I think she lives in the moment, and if she gets mad, she is horrid.

JMO, speculating, thinking aloud.

BBM
I'm not thinking illegal drugs. Drugstores are full of easy access to medication that could knock a person out, ie sleeping pills.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm just brainstorming here, trying to make this work (when it really doesn't make sense to me, either). But how's this:

She gets upset with him while they are kayaking and pulls the plug. In her dramatic temper, she throws the plug into the river. It's choppy so the waves are big enough for some water to get into the kayak, but the situation is worsened because HE gets upset trying to get the plug back or grab her and his movements cause more water to get in and perhaps even cause the capsize. In the mayhem, she grabs his paddle and then watches him struggle and die.

I honestly am not thinking drugs at this point as I don't know where she would get them and I'm not convinced she has that much forethought. I think she lives in the moment, and if she gets mad, she is horrid.

JMO, speculating, thinking aloud.

I'm quoting myself to add: perhaps in the mayhem of him capsizing during an argument and plug-pulling, that she pulled the kayak out of his reach while he struggled. He never tried to get back into the kayak because she was able to keep it away from him. The kayak never went under the water because she had control of it. The water was choppy and it was a windy, cold day. It would be a struggle from him to swim any distance and he didn't have long before the cold overcame him, if not the current as well. The Hudson is not a peaceful river and the current is strong. It would be a struggle even for a good swimmer, imo, and drugs aren't required (though I don't totally rule out the possibility yet). Just a thought.

 

[JerseyGirl]

In the pictures of the actual kayak, was the plug on the top, bottom, or hidden inside the cavity of the kayak?

 

[BunnyHop]

I give up. I was trying to post the 2 pictures of the kayaks, no can do.
To identify and analyze. They both have a time stamp of 2007 BTW.

 

[epiphany]

According to this article, it says she pulled the drain plug.

Also:

Graswald has raised $120,000 with an online defense fund and friends were in court Wednesday to show their support for her.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/13/angelika-graswald-kayak-tampering-fiance/

BBM

Just jumping off your post Jersey...

Either the CBSLocal reporter did not bother fact checking or

The online defense fund site has not been updated or

There is another online defense fund site.

I'm finding $120. Bucks, not $120,000., contributed to her defense.

Mention of an online defense fund here:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-state-police-rushed-judgment-charging-woman-fiances/story?id=30921691

 

[Lilibet]

Agreed, as far as her word goes. I should have noted that I was speculating wildly

Trying to wrap my mind around making the leap from wanting money/being lazy to murder. I know it happens darn near all the time, but I just can't wrap my brain around it.

I can't wrap my brain around it either! That's why we're here on WS instead of facing murder charges.

I learned a lot about evil from Jodi Arias. She portrayed herself as such a victim, and I fear that AG will do the same. That's why I wanted to clarify that we only have her word for how she felt. Trouble is, Jodi turned her words about her feelings into a nasty defense, complete with a journal...and there are still people out there who believe her to be a victim. :gaah:

 

[Kadoober]

It's amazing how JA has affected the way I view these types of cases. Like... I'm already wondering when AG actually wrote her diary entries.

 

[JerseyGirl]

BANNERMAN'S CASTLE HOURS

Ferry:
Open May-Oct. From Newburgh, Sat-Sun: 12; From Beacon, Sat-Sun: 1:30

COST: $30.00 for adults and $25.00 for children 11 and under

http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/bannermans-castle

Recent Review from TripAdvisor: You start out with a boat ride out to the island where a video gives you an introduction to the place and the family that owns it. You can take off from Beacon or Newburgh. You can also do a kayak tour which is wonderful too. Once you arrive on the island you are given a hard hat and your guide starts to tell you different stories that surround each building on the premises. If you love history or old buildings this is a great tour. I have gone with friends, family and as a couple and no matter what the age or group everyone always exclaims how beautiful it is. It's an especially great trip in fall with the leaves changing. They have a port-a-potty on the dock when you arrive but that is the only restroom. If you take the boat ride tour they sell snacks and souvenirs on the boat. It's a great spot for photographers and the site itself is beautiful but you also have great views of the river and surrounding mountains. The ferry ride is nice and relaxing. The tour is a bit of a hike through the island so you need to be reasonably fit able to do hills and stairs. They have no wheelchair or handicap access.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...rman_Castle-Cold_Spring_New_York.html#REVIEWS

 

[Lilibet]

It's amazing how JA has affected the way I view these types of cases. Like... I'm already wondering when AG actually wrote her diary entries.

Me too Kadoober. The timing was the first thing I thought of when I heard about the diary. I hate to sound like a broken record referring to JA all the time, but I just see so many parallels with AG so far.