GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #64

[IType]

How many Sleuthers believe that now that Angela Wagner has seen all information about the murders and how she failed as a mother, grandmother and a master murder, JMO she has had a nervous breakdown, JMO

As for her failure as a mother, I have a hard time believing her ego would even entertain the thought she failed at something. However, I certainly could see her thinking her son (JW) failed her. Her mother failed her, for that matter.

I'm not sure about a complete nervous breakdown, but I'd bet a lot of money she's on pretty shaky ground emotionally at this point. Her mother has agreed to testify against her, her baby boy has agreed to testify against her, and her brother provided helpful information to BCI. I'm sure JW's confession on 4/22/21 plunged her into emotional quicksand, but she may have pulled herself out since then. Hard to say. But, I would think she feels like the Lone Ranger now.

I've wondered if the recent request for travel to the dentist specifically stated to take her directly to the dentist and directly back to jail because they thought she'd wig out and try to escape or something. I could be way off base, though. We'll probably never find out the reasoning behind those specific instructions in the court's response.

All JMO

 

[IType]

Long time follower of this thread. First time poster.

I have to say, I think this was excellent investigating skills on this case. It seems to me they have all persons involved in jail awaiting trial. So, I have wondered at what point the investigators knew at least one of the wagners was involved and which one it was. Then I wonder if the investigators thought perhaps only one other accomplice and who that one was. And then when was it they knew the whole wagner family was involved.

What I do say is it was a brilliant move on the investigators part to interview them as they were crossing the canadian border in montana. At least I think that is where I read that once. They were either on their way driving to Alaska or on their way back. But if you think about how far of a drive that is, everyone in the vehicles getting road tired......then as the Wagner 4 try to cross the border they are seperated and surprise interviewed on the Rhoden murders. Brilliant. Just the sheer logistics to pull that off had to be amazing.

One other thought about this case. I wonder if the Wagners thought they could get away with this despicable crime because they might have had a discreet ally within the local law enforcement offices. This ally perhaps could have let the Wagners know when the investigation was looking at them. I only mention this as it seems very timely that Sheriff Raeder had charges against him just when it seems he was getting the investigation to look at the Wagners a little harder. Perhaps this ally assisted getting dirt on Raeder to get him out of the way via criminal charges. It seems, the Wagners had a bit of a crime syndicate going on so it would not surprise me.

Pasted from your quote above: So, I have wondered at what point the investigators knew at least one of the wagners was involved and which one it was.

My reply:
I'm not sure when exactly BCI first became suspicious of the W4's involvement in the murders. But, in my opinion, a huge turning point in the investigation centered around the time JM was arrested for destroying the tracker on his truck. While I think BCI heavily suspected JM's involvement up to that point (hence the tracker on the truck), I have wondered if they initially suspected JM was in cahoots with the W4. IMO, BW said something that caused the turning point in the investigation. Again, my opinion.

BW was only interviewed two times, according to the discovery documents posted in the media/timeline thread. Immediately following both interviews there was a big turn of events. Before May 8, 2017, all documented interviews were with JW or AW.

On May 8, 2017, though, BW was interviewed. Four to seven days after his interview, the searches at FWF, Peterson Road and the car lot occurred.

On May 16, JW was arrested. On May 21, BW was interviewed again (along with AW, JW and GW4). The very next day, the charges against JM were dropped.

These are my notes from info in the media/timeline thread and a couple articles (links below):

4/13/17 JW interview
4/21/17 Warrant issued to put tracker on JM's truck
4/22/17 GPS put on JM's truck
4/28/17 GPS on JM's truck quits working
5/3/17 AW and JW interviews
5/8/17 BW interview
5/12/17 Search at Peterson Road
5/13/17 Search at FWF
5/13/17 AW interview
5/15/17 Search of W4 belongings stored at car lot
5/15/17 BCI goes to collect GPS on JM's truck, JM's wife tells them JM found the GPS and destroyed it
5/16/17 AW interview
5/16/17 JM arrested that evening
5/17/17 JW interview
5/18/17 Search of Ford Excursion (AW's vehicle?), evidence collected
5/21/17 Interviews of JW, GW4, BW and AW
5/22/17 Charges against JM dropped
6/16/17 RN interview
6/20/17 RN interview
6/19, 20 or 21/17 (exact day unclear) DeWine says W4 are under "laser focus" in Rhoden/Gilley murders

Links to DeWine press conference:
Authorities seek information about family regarding Pike County slayings

Pike County murders: Ohio AG touts ‘laser’ focus on Alaska family

All JMO

 

[Betty P]

As for her failure as a mother, I have a hard time believing her ego would even entertain the thought she failed at something. However, I certainly could see her thinking her son (JW) failed her. Her mother failed her, for that matter.

I'm not sure about a complete nervous breakdown, but I'd bet a lot of money she's on pretty shaky ground emotionally at this point. Her mother has agreed to testify against her, her baby boy has agreed to testify against her, and her brother provided helpful information to BCI. I'm sure JW's confession on 4/22/21 plunged her into emotional quicksand, but she may have pulled herself out since then. Hard to say. But, I would think she feels like the Lone Ranger now.

I've wondered if the recent request for travel to the dentist specifically stated to take her directly to the dentist and directly back to jail because they thought she'd wig out and try to escape or something. I could be way off base, though. We'll probably never find out the reasoning behind those specific instructions in the court's response.

All JMO

Normal people who follow this case tend to project their own feelings on the Wagners. We assume that they regret what they did to their own family because that's how we would feel in their situation. We assume the parents feel badly for not saying "no" to their sons and vice versa.

They're not normal people, though. They're not at all like us. They only feel sorry for themselves and that they were caught. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Pasted from your quote above: So, I have wondered at what point the investigators knew at least one of the wagners was involved and which one it was.

My reply:
I'm not sure when exactly BCI first became suspicious of the W4's involvement in the murders. But, in my opinion, a huge turning point in the investigation centered around the time JM was arrested for destroying the tracker on his truck. While I think BCI heavily suspected JM's involvement up to that point (hence the tracker on the truck), I have wondered if they initially suspected JM was in cahoots with the W4. IMO, BW said something that caused the turning point in the investigation. Again, my opinion.

BW was only interviewed two times, according to the discovery documents posted in the media/timeline thread. Immediately following both interviews there was a big turn of events. Before May 8, 2017, all documented interviews were with JW or AW.

On May 8, 2017, though, BW was interviewed. Four to seven days after his interview, the searches at FWF, Peterson Road and the car lot occurred.

On May 16, JW was arrested. On May 21, BW was interviewed again (along with AW, JW and GW4). The very next day, the charges against JM were dropped.

These are my notes from info in the media/timeline thread and a couple articles (links below):

4/13/17 JW interview
4/21/17 Warrant issued to put tracker on JM's truck
4/22/17 GPS put on JM's truck
4/28/17 GPS on JM's truck quits working
5/3/17 AW and JW interviews
5/8/17 BW interview
5/12/17 Search at Peterson Road
5/13/17 Search at FWF
5/13/17 AW interview
5/15/17 Search of W4 belongings stored at car lot
5/15/17 BCI goes to collect GPS on JM's truck, JM's wife tells them JM found the GPS and destroyed it
5/16/17 AW interview
5/16/17 JM arrested that evening
5/17/17 JW interview
5/18/17 Search of Ford Excursion (AW's vehicle?), evidence collected
5/21/17 Interviews of JW, GW4, BW and AW
5/22/17 Charges against JM dropped
6/16/17 RN interview
6/20/17 RN interview
6/19, 20 or 21/17 (exact day unclear) DeWine says W4 are under "laser focus" in Rhoden/Gilley murders

Links to DeWine press conference:
Authorities seek information about family regarding Pike County slayings

Pike County murders: Ohio AG touts ‘laser’ focus on Alaska family

All JMO

In that 4/13/17 interview with Jake, I've always speculated he really laid it on thick with his story implicating JM. BCI and others probably swallowed it hook, line and sinker. JMO, Jake had been pointing the finger at JM and his sister since day 1. That was part of their plan. Scary to think that it almost worked.

Then they searched the Wagner farms, etc., let them leave for AK, then turned around and arrested JM. SMH.

JMO BCI wasn't putting on an act, they really thought JM did it or had information about the murders. They were angry.

Something happened, though, that suddenly made them say "Oh, ****! It's not JM, it's the Wagners and they're halfway to AK! Quick, lets catch up with them!"

 

[IType]

In that 4/13/17 interview with Jake, I've always speculated he really laid it on thick with his story implicating JM. BCI and others probably swallowed it hook, line and sinker. JMO, Jake had been pointing the finger at JM and his sister since day 1. That was part of their plan. Scary to think that it almost worked.

Then they searched the Wagner farms, etc., let them leave for AK, then turned around and arrested JM. SMH.

JMO BCI wasn't putting on an act, they really thought JM did it or had information about the murders. They were angry.

Something happened, though, that suddenly made them say "Oh, ****! It's not JM, it's the Wagners and they're halfway to AK! Quick, lets catch up with them!"

Hopefully someday we'll find out exactly when and what the Oh, Crap moment was! JMO

 

[IType]

Normal people who follow this case tend to project their own feelings on the Wagners. We assume that they regret what they did to their own family because that's how we would feel in their situation. We assume the parents feel badly for not saying "no" to their sons and vice versa.

They're not normal people, though. They're not at all like us. They only feel sorry for themselves and that they were caught. JMO

Just for clarification of what I said, I wasn't trying to imply AW regrets anything she's done--to her own family or to the victims and their loved ones/friends. I was just trying to say I think she may feel abandoned by her mom, brother and JW because they turned against her. I should have worded it better.

 

[Puzzles8]

Pasted from your quote above: So, I have wondered at what point the investigators knew at least one of the wagners was involved and which one it was.

My reply:
I'm not sure when exactly BCI first became suspicious of the W4's involvement in the murders. But, in my opinion, a huge turning point in the investigation centered around the time JM was arrested for destroying the tracker on his truck. While I think BCI heavily suspected JM's involvement up to that point (hence the tracker on the truck), I have wondered if they initially suspected JM was in cahoots with the W4. IMO, BW said something that caused the turning point in the investigation. Again, my opinion.

BW was only interviewed two times, according to the discovery documents posted in the media/timeline thread. Immediately following both interviews there was a big turn of events. Before May 8, 2017, all documented interviews were with JW or AW.

On May 8, 2017, though, BW was interviewed. Four to seven days after his interview, the searches at FWF, Peterson Road and the car lot occurred.

On May 16, JW was arrested. On May 21, BW was interviewed again (along with AW, JW and GW4). The very next day, the charges against JM were dropped.

These are my notes from info in the media/timeline thread and a couple articles (links below):

4/13/17 JW interview
4/21/17 Warrant issued to put tracker on JM's truck
4/22/17 GPS put on JM's truck
4/28/17 GPS on JM's truck quits working
5/3/17 AW and JW interviews
5/8/17 BW interview
5/12/17 Search at Peterson Road
5/13/17 Search at FWF
5/13/17 AW interview
5/15/17 Search of W4 belongings stored at car lot
5/15/17 BCI goes to collect GPS on JM's truck, JM's wife tells them JM found the GPS and destroyed it
5/16/17 AW interview
5/16/17 JM arrested that evening
5/17/17 JW interview
5/18/17 Search of Ford Excursion (AW's vehicle?), evidence collected
5/21/17 Interviews of JW, GW4, BW and AW
5/22/17 Charges against JM dropped
6/16/17 RN interview
6/20/17 RN interview
6/19, 20 or 21/17 (exact day unclear) DeWine says W4 are under "laser focus" in Rhoden/Gilley murders

Links to DeWine press conference:
Authorities seek information about family regarding Pike County slayings

Pike County murders: Ohio AG touts ‘laser’ focus on Alaska family

All JMO

I would add one more interesting event to this timeline.

On April 13, 2017 Mike DeWine and Charlie Reader held an emotional press conference to update progress on the murder investigation. In retrospect it is very interesting to watch. I strongly got the sense they had recently figured out the W4 were their main suspects and I think their words were very directed at the W4. Ironically, Jake also had an interview that same day.

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[Cool Cats]

Pasted from your quote above: So, I have wondered at what point the investigators knew at least one of the wagners was involved and which one it was.

My reply:
I'm not sure when exactly BCI first became suspicious of the W4's involvement in the murders. But, in my opinion, a huge turning point in the investigation centered around the time JM was arrested for destroying the tracker on his truck. While I think BCI heavily suspected JM's involvement up to that point (hence the tracker on the truck), I have wondered if they initially suspected JM was in cahoots with the W4. IMO, BW said something that caused the turning point in the investigation. Again, my opinion.

BW was only interviewed two times, according to the discovery documents posted in the media/timeline thread. Immediately following both interviews there was a big turn of events. Before May 8, 2017, all documented interviews were with JW or AW.

On May 8, 2017, though, BW was interviewed. Four to seven days after his interview, the searches at FWF, Peterson Road and the car lot occurred.

On May 16, JW was arrested. On May 21, BW was interviewed again (along with AW, JW and GW4). The very next day, the charges against JM were dropped.

These are my notes from info in the media/timeline thread and a couple articles (links below):

4/13/17 JW interview
4/21/17 Warrant issued to put tracker on JM's truck
4/22/17 GPS put on JM's truck
4/28/17 GPS on JM's truck quits working
5/3/17 AW and JW interviews
5/8/17 BW interview
5/12/17 Search at Peterson Road
5/13/17 Search at FWF
5/13/17 AW interview
5/15/17 Search of W4 belongings stored at car lot
5/15/17 BCI goes to collect GPS on JM's truck, JM's wife tells them JM found the GPS and destroyed it
5/16/17 AW interview
5/16/17 JM arrested that evening
5/17/17 JW interview
5/18/17 Search of Ford Excursion (AW's vehicle?), evidence collected
5/21/17 Interviews of JW, GW4, BW and AW
5/22/17 Charges against JM dropped
6/16/17 RN interview
6/20/17 RN interview
6/19, 20 or 21/17 (exact day unclear) DeWine says W4 are under "laser focus" in Rhoden/Gilley murders

Links to DeWine press conference:
Authorities seek information about family regarding Pike County slayings

Pike County murders: Ohio AG touts ‘laser’ focus on Alaska family

All JMO

You left out Billy's 9-9-16 interview.

This goes along with what you are saying about Billy.

Billy was interviewed In September 2016 and it is possible he got Reader's suspicions up with that interview. Also possible Angie got his suspicions up with her October 2016 interview.

Reader said in October 2016 that he thought it was locals. So I think Reader was suspecting the Wagners by September 2016. Anyone else think this?

5-13-16 Jake interview

9-9-16 Billy interview

10-5-16 Angela interview


Here are all the Wagner Interviews from Angela's Discovery
Filed in Pike County Common Pleas Court December 20th 2018

https://www.scribd.com/document/402565469/Angela-Wagner

 

[Ann99]

Possibly De Wine, BCI, etc. were onto the Wagners as soon as they got into DR laptop files..
She referred to The Evil Ones and I'll bet it was obvious.

 

[altojack]

You left out Billy's 9-9-16 interview.

This goes along with what you are saying about Billy.

Billy was interviewed In September 2016 and it is possible he got Reader's suspicions up with that interview. Also possible Angie got his suspicions up with her October 2016 interview.

Reader said in October 2016 that he thought it was locals. So I think Reader was suspecting the Wagners by September 2016. Anyone else think this?

5-13-16 Jake interview

9-9-16 Billy interview

10-5-16 Angela interview


Here are all the Wagner Interviews from Angela's Discovery
Filed in Pike County Common Pleas Court December 20th 2018
View attachment 311691
https://www.scribd.com/document/402565469/Angela-Wagner

Yes, Reader had them in sight very early but like I said earlier JMO "others" shut him down, one person in particular JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, Reader had them in sight very early but like I said earlier JMO "others" shut him down, one person in particular JMO.

Oh yah. You noticed something I didn't notice. That DeWine talked over Reader when Reader would mention locals.

I will look for that whenever I peruse those interviews. Thanks

PS

Once you learn how to look for micro expressions you can't stop.
Can't put that Genie back in that box.

 

[Cool Cats]

Possibly De Wine, BCI, etc. were onto the Wagners as soon as they got into DR laptop files..
She referred to The Evil Ones and I'll bet it was obvious.

They got Dana's laptop early on when they seized all the evidence in the homes.

They could have easily figured out who she meant by the evil ones just by talking to her parents, siblings, nieces and nephews and close friends and her kids close friends of who she mothered. This was an expression she used commonly it was said by a close friend. Opinion without link.

So we know they got Hanna's laptop early but for some reason all their cyber crime units did not pick up the hacking. Not until they got Angela's family laptop at the Canadian Montana border.

...2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

So next week George and Billy will both be in Court for their attorney's to argue Motions for them. Here are the 2 Motions - Mod approved - previously posted by Covert Operative.

WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON 09/13/2021 01:30 PM MOTION HEARING
MOTION NO. 72 TO COMPEL DISCOVERY AND FOR SANCTIONS (EVIDENTIARY HEARING REQUESTED)

WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON - 09/16/2021 11:00 AM MOTION HEARING
DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT

1.) Defendant's Motion for Specific Performance of the Prosecution in Dismissing the Murder Specifications Against Defendant George Wagner III

2.) Motion to Compel Discovery and for Sanctions (George)

 

[Covert Operative]

So next week George and Billy will both be in Court for their attorney's to argue Motions for them. Here are the 2 Motions - Mod approved - previously posted by Covert Operative.

WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON 09/13/2021 01:30 PM MOTION HEARING
MOTION NO. 72 TO COMPEL DISCOVERY AND FOR SANCTIONS (EVIDENTIARY HEARING REQUESTED)

WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON - 09/16/2021 11:00 AM MOTION HEARING
DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT

1.) Defendant's Motion for Specific Performance of the Prosecution in Dismissing the Murder Specifications Against Defendant George Wagner III

2.) Motion to Compel Discovery and for Sanctions (George)

I am waiting to see if there is an evidentiary hearing and someone from the state has to get on the stand. If the proffer gets turned over then it probably will not happen. It would be good though, might give us some tidbits.

 

[Cool Cats]

I am waiting to see if there is an evidentiary hearing and someone from the state has to get on the stand. If the proffer gets turned over then it probably will not happen. It would be good though, might give us some tidbits.

It would for sure give "tidbits."

If it wasn't for George's Bond Hearing we wouldn't know 1/2 of what we now know.

Nash specifically asked for an Evidentiary Hearing so it is possible.

By definition, an evidentiary hearing is any court proceeding that involves witnesses giving testimony under oath before a judge and in some cases, presenting documentary evidence. In criminal matters, particularly those that involve felonies, evidentiary hearings are standard operating procedure.
What Happens During an Evidentiary Hearing? | Lega…

 

[Cool Cats]

From January 7th 2019
Angela Wagner, woman accused in Pike County murders, back in court Wednesday

I like this particular photo of AW because it is a rare photo of her, in public, looking regretful. Probably regret for her own life not the 8 lives she took, but at least it is a snapshot of a sober moment.

I like this photo of Billy for the same reasons.

Billy Wagner returned to a Pike County courtroom for a pretrial hearing

 

[LMDlong]

Does anyone know why Chris Sr, Chris Jr, Hannah and Frankie Rhoden aren’t listed as plaintiffs as Dana, Gary, Kenneth and Hannah G. are in the the civil suit filed by Tony Rhoden?

 

[Cool Cats]

Does anyone know why Chris Sr, Chris Jr, Hannah and Frankie Rhoden aren’t listed as plaintiffs as Dana, Gary, Kenneth and Hannah G. are in the the civil suit filed by Tony Rhoden?

Hannah Gilley's family is the administrator for her estate.
Gary's family is the administrator for his estate.
Dana's parents are the administrators for her estate.
Kenneth's daughter is the administrator for his estate.

Tony Rhoden is the administrator for the estates of Chris Sr., Chris Jr., Frankie and Hanna.

This is why it is written this way in the civil suit.

 

[Covert Operative]

Does anyone know why Chris Sr, Chris Jr, Hannah and Frankie Rhoden aren’t listed as plaintiffs as Dana, Gary, Kenneth and Hannah G. are in the the civil suit filed by Tony Rhoden?

Not sure what you mean they are all listed in the civil suit. Tony is the administrator of the estates for CRsr,CRjr, HR,FR.
DR,GR,KR, HG are also listed in the civil suit but not as Tony being the administrator. Their administrators are listed as John Doe or Jane Doe.

 

[IType]

A week or maybe two ago, I stated in a post that I wouldn't be surprised if FW's charges are refiled before the statute of limitations runs out, thinking maybe JW gave some info to the prosecution about the bulletproof vest purchase. I think its possible the vests found in BW's room at FWF were purchased before the murders through an online account in FW's name without her knowledge.

I know there is a receipt showing BPV's purchased after the date of the murders. Were there possibly two sets of vests purchased--one set by the W4 without FW knowledge and one set purchased by FW after the murders? Maybe I'm missing something...

But, if she isn't guilty of lying to the grand jury about the purchase of the BPV found in BW's room at her farm, why did she do a search about penalties for lying to a grand jury the night before she testified?

"The court filing also reveals that Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka, who had been previously charged with perjury, searched for penalties related to lying to the grand jury the night before she testified in 2018. Those charges were dismissed but prosecutors have said they may refile at a later date.

Fredericka had offered grand jury testimony that she purchased bullet-resistant vests on the internet after the Rhoden murders because she wanted to protect her son. Prosecutors had claimed the vests were used in the homicides. However, Wagner’s attorney revealed the vests were purchased on eBay after the homicides.
AG withdraws from Rhoden case, new details about Wagner-Rhoden relationship revealed