GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #67

[Betty P]

Yes. They are trying to give him the best defense they can and that is good because it would be hard to claim that he had ineffective counsel/representation later. They do not have a lot to work with.
BW lawyers have way less I do believe. I can only imagine they are waiting go see what happens if G4 has a trial and then they know what happened in that trial that may help or hurt them. They will already know what a lot of what the testimony will be. I cannot think of anything that will help him. Its pretty obvious that JW is not going to I think.

In DP cases, especially one involving mass murder of 8 innocent people (with confessions from co-conspirators), most defense attorneys are satisfied with LWOP. They even boast about it on their web sites.

These defense attorneys should tell their client to accept that deal. Instead, they're trying to completely derail the case, at risk of putting their dangerous clients back on the street. Doesn't sound very professional to me, JMO. Certainly not necessary to protect their clients' interests.

 

[joe jones]

My personal opinion the defense is throwing every and any thing against the wall to see what sticks.

as they should, it is their ethical duty to present a vigorous defence,

 

[Betty P]

as they should, it is their ethical duty to present a vigorous defence,

I don't think anyone here suggests otherwise. The key word here is "ethics". Officers of the court should show respect for the process. It's important to ensure there's public confidence in the law and courts.

Judge Deering and the prosecution have gone out of their way to make sure the defendants are being treated fairly in the court room. Defense attorneys are given a lot of leeway in our courts in order to protect the rights of the accused, but they have to follow rules, too.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

BBM

The post you refer to by Sojourn was one that struck me and made such an impact. It described how hunters choose, study, watch and stalk their prey. It was SO "dead on" it was almost hauning. I still have it saved to this day. So cool that you remember it too.

Because I got to these threads after the confession, that post truly stood out as deeply insightful, almost prescient. It made me wonder if the detectives saw this same pattern and that's one thing that pointed to the Wagners.

 

[Cool Cats]

Because I got to these threads after the confession, that post truly stood out as deeply insightful, almost prescient. It made me wonder if the detectives saw this same pattern and that's one thing that pointed to the Wagners.

Yes BCI would have discovered the Wagner's were hunters and had guns for hunting matching the crime scene guns:

Scheiderer described some of the evidence collected throughout the course of the investigation, including evidence about firearms used in the homicides and guns believed to be owned by the Wagners, including a .22-caliber long rifle, a .40-caliber handgun and a .30-caliber gun.

"Through the course of our investigation, we uncovered information that the defendant was fond of Glock firearms and was known as a Glock man. And we also have information that he was in possession of at least one .30-caliber rifle that is a potential contributor to the evidence that we found at one of the murder scenes," Scheiderer said.

Scheiderer also talked about George purchasing a Glock off Facebook facilitated by his uncle - Angie's brother - and them meeting the buyer at a hwy rest stop. On Jake's phone he had a photo of a 22 Colt he was holding and a family gun list of every gun the family members owned including a Cricket gun for his toddler.

Hunting and guns = red flag

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

 

[StrangeOne]

She isn't a POI so we can't talk about her except what is already out there. According to Canepa she looked up how to lie to the Grand Jury the day before she went before the GJ which shows she might have known information after the fact.

I forgot we couldn't speak about her except for what was already stated. Thank you for the refresh of information. It reminded me just how the family worked as one to do the most horrendous thing.

 

[Cool Cats]

I forgot we couldn't speak about her except for what was already stated. Thank you for the refresh of information. It reminded me just how the family worked as one to do the most horrendous thing.

That "the family worked as one" will help convict George.

According to Scheiderer they did everything together including voting on personal matters, putting their money together, lived together, vacationed together, were home schooled together, raised their kids together, worked as mechanics and shared a long haul truck they drove together, worked the farm together, hunted, hung out, went to church, committed crimes, all together, etc.....

According to Scheiderer and Canepa there was no way Jake could go out and commit murder without George knowing about it.

Also, I have no doubt The Wagner Crime Family voted on committing murder together.

 

[StrangeOne]

I'm sure they did. I'm so glad they have evidence of the fact as well. They can try to deny it but it won't do any good.. to twist a popular phrase its more like..One for all and all for me, me, me. That is how I view little JW. Spoil and twisted. Not only did they kill a loving family and take out the future for the victims and their family members but, he got his family locked up from 30 years to Life. It all started with JW the pedophile not getting his way and losing control of HR.

 

[Berrybell]

I'm sure they did. I'm so glad they have evidence of the fact as well. They can try to deny it but it won't do any good.. to twist a popular phrase its more like..One for all and all for me, me, me. That is how I view little JW. Spoil and twisted. Not only did they kill a loving family and take out the future for the victims and their family members but, he got his family locked up from 30 years to Life. It all started with JW the pedophile not getting his way and losing control of HR.

BBM

I could not agree more with your statement of JW being a pedophile and he lost control of her HR committed the worst sin she possibly could against him, she grew-up. JW hated her for it.

 

[Betty P]

I'm sure they did. I'm so glad they have evidence of the fact as well. They can try to deny it but it won't do any good.. to twist a popular phrase its more like..One for all and all for me, me, me. That is how I view little JW. Spoil and twisted. Not only did they kill a loving family and take out the future for the victims and their family members but, he got his family locked up from 30 years to Life. It all started with JW the pedophile not getting his way and losing control of HR.

Good points. I also think there was bad blood between the Wagner men and Chris Sr and any other Rhodens who were there when the fights happened. Learning the details of that incident will be very helpful. Billy probably had Jake and GW4 with him. JMO.

There was no rational motive, but plenty of hostility towards the Rhodens from Billy, GW4 and Jake, all stoked by Angela. JMO

She wanted full custody of those grandchildren, including S, but there's an impression that bad blood existed between Billly and GW4 and the Rhoden men, too. I don't think we know all the details yet, but hopefully will some day.

Rhodens were independent and took care of themselves. They didn't owe the Wagners anything and pushed back when the Wagners tried to boss them. To us, that may seem trivial, but to Billy Wagner and his family, that was a big deal. After all, this was a man who was arrested with his wife for waving a gun at someone while driving down the highway.

JMO

 

[Dudly]

Was watching TV today. A man was standing over an unconscious man on the floor. He shot him in the head and got a big grin on his face. I thought that was probably what JW did when he shot sleeping people…

 

[Cool Cats]

Was watching TV today. A man was standing over an unconscious man on the floor. He shot him in the head and got a big grin on his face. I thought that was probably what JW did when he shot sleeping people…

Well he was smiling so much in court that it was mentioned in MSM:

WLWT, virtual channel 5, is an NBC-affiliated television station

Accused Pike County killer Jake Wagner smiles, answers judge's questions during pretrial hearing

I think it was mentioned in MSM that he even smiled at one point during his guilty plea hearing.

Pike County murder suspect Jake Wagner requests not to be shackled in court - January 24th 2019

Wish I could hear what a psychiatrist would have to say about it. I do nervous smiles, I wonder if that is what he is doing?

 

[joe jones]

I don't think anyone here suggests otherwise. The key word here is "ethics". Officers of the court should show respect for the process. It's important to ensure there's public confidence in the law and courts.

Judge Deering and the prosecution have gone out of their way to make sure the defendants are being treated fairly in the court room. Defense attorneys are given a lot of leeway in our courts in order to protect the rights of the accused, but they have to follow rules, too.

I think his defence attorneys have and are doing the best job they can, they know they have very few avenues to defend what is an indefensible crime, so they have to try to argue for their clients actions being different with less culpability than his co accused, GW the younger IMO didn't kill anybody, but I doubt this judge will change his mind on removing the murder charges,

his defence attorneys are trying (with little success so far) to go to trial having got DP off the table, as if that is off the table they can really go after JW on cross, if DP is still an option then they are hampered in how they can defend GW the younger, as if they do a successful cross examination of JW and he deviates from his proffer then state can but DP back for all 4, so they IMO could not ethically do something in court that means by their actions they have returned the DP to their client, if they get DP removed pre his trial it gives them the choice of how they defend GW the younger, it takes away the states control over the DP and who gets to decide if JW is truthful

 

[Cool Cats]

I think his defence attorneys have and are doing the best job they can, they know they have very few avenues to defend what is an indefensible crime, so they have to try to argue for their clients actions being different with less culpability than his co accused, GW the younger IMO didn't kill anybody, but I doubt this judge will change his mind on removing the murder charges,

his defence attorneys are trying (with little success so far) to go to trial having got DP off the table, as if that is off the table they can really go after JW on cross, if DP is still an option then they are hampered in how they can defend GW the younger, as if they do a successful cross examination of JW and he deviates from his proffer then state can but DP back for all 4, so they IMO could not ethically do something in court that means by their actions they have returned the DP to their client, if they get DP removed pre his trial it gives them the choice of how they defend GW the younger, it takes away the states control over the DP and who gets to decide if JW is truthful

Yup. The defense attorneys are doing the best they can considering they are on the losing end of the stick with 22 felony charges, including 8 aggravated murders, mountains of evidence, co-defendants turning State's evidence, recordings and texts from the defendant, shoe prints placing defendant in middle of the murders and defendant with 2 types of guns - a .30 rifle and .40 Glock.

You raise a puzzling point.

If they decide they can't do a successful cross examination of JW because he might be caught in lies going against his proffer - which then puts the DP back on for all 4 - then maybe it would be better to have the DP off the table before trial.

Prosecution already said he lied during the proffer, seems they caught it though.

"Canepa stated that Jake contradicted himself in his proffer"

But I think what will happen is the prosecution will keep him on track with his testimony and redirect his answers to stay within his proffer.

Canepa is experienced with this.

 

[Cool Cats]

Good points. I also think there was bad blood between the Wagner men and Chris Sr and any other Rhodens who were there when the fights happened. Learning the details of that incident will be very helpful. Billy probably had Jake and GW4 with him. JMO.

There was no rational motive, but plenty of hostility towards the Rhodens from Billy, GW4 and Jake, all stoked by Angela. JMO

She wanted full custody of those grandchildren, including S, but there's an impression that bad blood existed between Billly and GW4 and the Rhoden men, too. I don't think we know all the details yet, but hopefully will some day.

Rhodens were independent and took care of themselves. They didn't owe the Wagners anything and pushed back when the Wagners tried to boss them. To us, that may seem trivial, but to Billy Wagner and his family, that was a big deal. After all, this was a man who was arrested with his wife for waving a gun at someone while driving down the highway.

JMO

We have discussed the possibility of George shooting Gary with his .40 Glock but I think it is also interesting to note that George was not only fond of Glocks and owned a Glock but he was in possession of at least one .30-caliber rifle. 2 of the guns used in the crimes were a .40 Glock and a .30-caliber rifle.

Maybe George had the rifle and Billy had the Glock. Billy did his road rage with a Glock and probably introduced George to that type of gun. Shoot or not shoot - there were 3 guns and I believe George carried one of them.

I also agree that Billy at least took Jake with him to confront Chris. Jake said:

“No, I did not go to Hanna’s home three weeks prior to April 22 and kick in the door demanding she sign over custody of Sophia,’’

Jake lies. Sounds to me like he was there with his dad demanding she sign papers.

Pike County massacre: Who will get custody of 5-year-old?

 

[Piffcat]

The issue with g4s lawyer is his tactics are not designed for an aquital. He is trying to take justice out of the court and jury's hands. Has no intent of creating reasonable doubt his client is innocent. He is attacking the investigation with smoke and mirrors to paint the police as corrupt or heavy handed in hopes of jury nullification. Find someone with a bone to pick with Cops or govt for a mistrial. It blows my mind that "vigorous defense" line people use as if it's some noble cause to get a murderer off on a technicality. The Wagner case brings up a larger startling point. If you kill someone without a witness and don't leave dna in this country you can kill with impunity. G4s lawyer actually used the argument that g4 was not on tape killing anyone!! Think of how twisted that is. Reasonable doubt definition has been corrupted. The key word is reasonable. Before dna and technology the jury used their brain and common sense in addition to corroborating physical and circumstantial evidence
Murder doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's not a philosophical or physics exercise of what ifs and alternate dimensions . 8 people were slaughtered. Everyone knows who did it how they did it and why they did it. Yet somehow the outcome is still very much up In the air . Think about that, is that a world we should be proud of?? How do you think famil feels? They've been more then patient. Sharing a courtroom with the creatures who shattered their entire world UNPROVOKED. Mr manley deserved to feel and see justice in his lifetime. Instead he saw angela get her murders dropped and get a pathetically low sentence somehow. Her testimony isn't even strong she wasn't there!! But she was more then happy to windup her disgusting husband and offspring. I can't put my finger on it but something is not right here. Stop victimizing this family

 

[Cool Cats]

The issue with g4s lawyer is his tactics are not designed for an aquital. He is trying to take justice out of the court and jury's hands. Has no intent of creating reasonable doubt his client is innocent. He is attacking the investigation with smoke and mirrors to paint the police as corrupt or heavy handed in hopes of jury nullification. Find someone with a bone to pick with Cops or govt for a mistrial. It blows my mind that "vigorous defense" line people use as if it's some noble cause to get a murderer off on a technicality. The Wagner case brings up a larger startling point. If you kill someone without a witness and don't leave dna in this country you can kill with impunity. G4s lawyer actually used the argument that g4 was not on tape killing anyone!! Think of how twisted that is. Reasonable doubt definition has been corrupted. The key word is reasonable. Before dna and technology the jury used their brain and common sense in addition to corroborating physical and circumstantial evidence
Murder doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's not a philosophical or physics exercise of what ifs and alternate dimensions . 8 people were slaughtered. Everyone knows who did it how they did it and why they did it. Yet somehow the outcome is still very much up In the air . Think about that, is that a world we should be proud of?? How do you think famil feels? They've been more then patient. Sharing a courtroom with the creatures who shattered their entire world UNPROVOKED. Mr manley deserved to feel and see justice in his lifetime. Instead he saw angela get her murders dropped and get a pathetically low sentence somehow. Her testimony isn't even strong she wasn't there!! But she was more then happy to windup her disgusting husband and offspring. I can't put my finger on it but something is not right here. Stop victimizing this family

I'm going to address the "elephant in the room." What I think some of us, lurkers too, are thinking........Opinion only....don't want to offend anyone.

The State is taking way too long to prosecute it. First trial almost
3 1/2 years!

This just makes too much time for the defense to file all these frivolous Motions and draws out the Motions not getting them taken care of. They have been talking for 2 years about a Daubert Hearing for the shoes and ballistics.

Jake and Angela haven't even been sentenced. They should be sentenced and sent to prison by now. Come back to testify.

The families still might have civil trials but can't until the criminal trials are finished, this is one reason it's - in my opinion - taking too long for the families.

Angela inherited a house and Jake and George owned a long haul truck probably a semi and they made money selling the Peterson Rd house. Also, they owned multiple vehicles, trailers, computers, game systems, 4-wheelers and many other items etc.... Everything they owned at time of arrest should go to the families for the children, including the money in their many bank accounts.

 

[joe jones]

Yup. The defense attorneys are doing the best they can considering they are on the losing end of the stick with 22 felony charges, including 8 aggravated murders, mountains of evidence, co-defendants turning State's evidence, recordings and texts from the defendant, shoe prints placing defendant in middle of the murders and defendant with 2 types of guns - a .30 rifle and .40 Glock.

You raise a puzzling point.

If they decide they can't do a successful cross examination of JW because he might be caught in lies going against his proffer - which then puts the DP back on for all 4 - then maybe it would be better to have the DP off the table before trial.

Prosecution already said he lied during the proffer, seems they caught it though.

"Canepa stated that Jake contradicted himself in his proffer"

But I think what will happen is the prosecution will keep him on track with his testimony and redirect his answers to stay within his proffer.

Canepa is experienced with this.

state has accepted his proffer with his contradictions, and they alone get to decide if JW has lived up to his bargain with the state, defence obviously seeing the contradictions in JW proffer think they can do a vigorous cross examination challenging his version of events

if they go to trial with the DP being either removed or reinstated by what JW says then IMO they are hampered in how they cross examine him, if they are able to get him to make statements that deviate from the proffer then JW will not have adhered to his bargain with the state and the DP gets reinstated as a possible penalty for the 4, I doubt any defence attorney would want to be responsible for moving his clients possible penalty from LWOP to DP,

I don't think it is fair that the defence are limited in how they defend GW the younger due to the way the DP can be reinstated,

 

[joe jones]

I'm going to address the "elephant in the room." What I think some of us, lurkers too, are thinking........Opinion only....don't want to offend anyone.

The State is taking way too long to prosecute it. First trial almost
3 1/2 years!

This just makes too much time for the defense to file all these frivolous Motions and draws out the Motions not getting them taken care of. They have been talking for 2 years about a Daubert Hearing for the shoes and ballistics.

Jake and Angela haven't even been sentenced. They should be sentenced and sent to prison by now. Come back to testify.

The families still might have civil trials but can't until the criminal trials are finished, this is one reason it's - in my opinion - taking too long for the families.

Angela inherited a house and Jake and George owned a long haul truck probably a semi and they made money selling the Peterson Rd house. Also, they owned multiple vehicles, trailers, computers, game systems, 4-wheelers and many other items etc.... Everything they owned at time of arrest should go to the families for the children, including the money in their many bank accounts.

DP cases always take years, some I have seen take 6 years, the pandemic is also an issue now, It is still a capital case until JW has testified to the states satisfaction, only then is the case not a capital one, and JW will have to testify at both trials (if both GW go to trial) before the DP is removed, when defendants lives are at stake every avenue is litigated before trial, as it should be if the state want to have the power to kill someone,

they cannot sentence either AW or JW until both GW have had trials or made their own plea agreements, as both JW and AW proffer only applies if they testify to the satisfaction of the state, so both proffers can still be removed from AW and JW by the state

 

[joe jones]

The issue with g4s lawyer is his tactics are not designed for an aquital. He is trying to take justice out of the court and jury's hands. Has no intent of creating reasonable doubt his client is innocent. He is attacking the investigation with smoke and mirrors to paint the police as corrupt or heavy handed in hopes of jury nullification. Find someone with a bone to pick with Cops or govt for a mistrial. It blows my mind that "vigorous defense" line people use as if it's some noble cause to get a murderer off on a technicality. The Wagner case brings up a larger startling point. If you kill someone without a witness and don't leave dna in this country you can kill with impunity. G4s lawyer actually used the argument that g4 was not on tape killing anyone!! Think of how twisted that is. Reasonable doubt definition has been corrupted. The key word is reasonable. Before dna and technology the jury used their brain and common sense in addition to corroborating physical and circumstantial evidence
Murder doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's not a philosophical or physics exercise of what ifs and alternate dimensions . 8 people were slaughtered. Everyone knows who did it how they did it and why they did it. Yet somehow the outcome is still very much up In the air . Think about that, is that a world we should be proud of?? How do you think famil feels? They've been more then patient. Sharing a courtroom with the creatures who shattered their entire world UNPROVOKED. Mr manley deserved to feel and see justice in his lifetime. Instead he saw angela get her murders dropped and get a pathetically low sentence somehow. Her testimony isn't even strong she wasn't there!! But she was more then happy to windup her disgusting husband and offspring. I can't put my finger on it but something is not right here. Stop victimizing this family

I don't understand why any defence atty would want a mistrial, unless it is a mistrial with prejudice it just has to be redone all over again, and I doubt their is a judge in the land who would grant a mistrial with prejudice in a case of this magnitude, I don't think anybody would want to have to try this case more than once,

I have seen a mistrial in another extremely high profile case and all involved were devastated, the families had to sit through horrific testimony many times over, I don't think any defence attorney intentionally sets out to get a mistrial, ( mistrial case mentioned was Christian and Newsome trial due to judges behaviour)

and IMO when the state wants to kill somebody all and every defence avenues should be litigated, and it should take time, and be vigorously defended, this defence team is no different than any capital defence team, this case though has 4 defence teams so unfortunately it has and will take longer to finally get to a resolution,