PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #3

[cluciano63]

MR was never placed at the scene, apparently, not by his friend, or by the neighbors, or his father.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

does anyone know if there is a place we can look in the police system/website to see what they currently have listed as kortne's legal status. like "suspicious disappearance" or something like that.

 

[NothingClever]

I think they believe she probably left the building due to the lack of any type of crime scene. Not to say they could not have cleaned up any signs of a struggle, but at this point, LE does not seem to have any signs of foul play within the building.

But how do you know for sure there isn't a crime scene? I'm still convinced they found something in that apartment that they got a search warrant AND put up the police tape. They found something that makes them say it's suspicious and also makes a second search warrant with the wording 'criminal homicide'.

 

[epiphany]

I don't believe Kortne left her apartment unconscious or worse. She's slender, but not petite. Think about 5'8".

Additionally, there's CP, IMO, supposedly sleeping on the couch on the second floor.

Kortne stepped out of the apartment on her own accord...but I don't believe that she left the property on her own accord. In the very least, cell phone would have been taken.

 

[cluciano63]

But how do you know for sure there isn't a crime scene? I'm still convinced they found something in that apartment that they got a search warrant AND put up the police tape. They found something that makes them say it's suspicious and also makes a second search warrant with the wording 'criminal homicide'.

I don't know that there isn't. Except that if a crime scene existed in one of the neighbor's apartments, why no arrest? And her mom apparently did not notice anything out of place when she arrived on Monday in Kortne's apartment. And LE has never really said that they are sure a crime took place, just are treating it this way in case one has.

 

[epiphany]

MR was never placed at the scene, apparently, not by his friend, or by the neighbors, or his father.

Probably not by the downstairs couple, as well as the next-door neighbor.

 

[coopzoo]

MR was never placed at the scene, apparently, not by his friend, or by the neighbors, or his father.

Correct. Yet his car and home were both searched...but no LDT. I find that puzzling, but maybe that's just me.

 

[NothingClever]

I don't know that there isn't. Except that if a crime scene existed in one of the neighbor's apartments, why no arrest? And her mom apparently did not notice anything out of place when she arrived on Monday in Kortne's apartment. And LE has never really said that they are sure a crime took place, just are treating it this way in case one has.

IDK...the whole not having any information is frustrating. I'm not in the legal field at all....I don't know anything about criminal justice. But the common sense part of me tells me that there must be some physical evidence to 1) rule her disappearance as suspicious/possibly criminal 2) Seal off the apartment with police tape (which is still sealed today as far as I know)....3) Impound her car..... 4) get a search warrant for her apartment..... 5) get a search warrant for MR's car/home with the words criminal homicide.

So we know there is a lot of information missing, but what we can brainstorm on is what IS needed to do the things above? What kind of evidence do they need?

It was never said (if I recall correctly) what her mom found in the apartment. And if she found any fluids I don't know that it would have been made public. But nothing in this case makes much sense so IDK.

 

[epiphany]

Correct. Yet his car and home were both searched...but no LDT. I find that puzzling, but maybe that's just me.

Both he and CP said CP had driven his car after he was dropped off at about 2:00 AM.

Additionally, both CP, MR, Jr and MR, Sr all say CP returned to MR's residence after stopping to grab coffee, etc. @ about 7:30 AM.

Would not be unusual given the above, to search MR, Jr car and home. Trying to corroborate CP's version of his whereabouts (More so, than MR, Jr.'s) since CP identifies himself as the last person to see Kortne at about 4:20 AM.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Correct. Yet his car and home were both searched...but no LDT. I find that puzzling, but maybe that's just me.

warrant was issued for JR's car. the permission to search the house was voluntarily given.

 

[NothingClever]

Do they *normally* bring in dogs trained at finding human remains for a missing person?

Again....here my common sense tells me that they must have found something because why would you use dogs for that purpose unless you have something that you know you may need them?

Or is that a normal thing to just 'cover the bases' just in case? I honestly don't know....I'm asking. LOL

 

[epiphany]

Appears that body examination for signs of struggle between CP and K permitted by CP.

Would like to know what questions may have indicated some deception on CP's part, if any.

But, that's not going to happen. At least, no time soon.

 

[coopzoo]

warrant was issued for JR's car. the permission to search the house was voluntarily given.

Yes. Likely, IMO, because LE asked. If nothing else, they did it because they knew CP went there after leaving Kortne's and stopping off at the convenience store and were just covering all their bases. I just don't understand why one would be given the LDT and not the other. Maybe MR saw something...heard something...and they know he's CP's "boy" and would probably not rat him out.

I dunno. I find myself questioning a lot LE has done (or not done) in this case.

 

[JurysOut]

That is an excellent thought and would offer one explanation for why her disappearance was initially treated as a kidnapping.

I must have missed or forgotten something about dogs, plural.

***ETA- Derp. I just went back and read epiphany's post. I should stop reading backwards.

I'm likely forgetting.

So, dogs lost her scent where?

I don't know how dogs work, either. Like how do they know what they're following is the most recent trail? Maybe there's something about the degree of freshness.

That deck and stairway have been bothering me since I drove by at night. It scares me.

There's no way in hell I'd step out there without my phone, a mean dog, some spotlights and maybe a gun. No way.


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[epiphany]

IDK...the whole not having any information is frustrating. I'm not in the legal field at all....I don't know anything about criminal justice. But the common sense part of me tells me that there must be some physical evidence to 1) rule her disappearance as suspicious/possibly criminal 2) Seal off the apartment with police tape (which is still sealed today as far as I know)....3) Impound her car..... 4) get a search warrant for her apartment..... 5) get a search warrant for MR's car/home with the words criminal homicide.

So we know there is a lot of information missing, but what we can brainstorm on is what IS needed to do the things above? What kind of evidence do they need?

It was never said (if I recall correctly) what her mom found in the apartment. And if she found any fluids I don't know that it would have been made public. But nothing in this case makes much sense so IDK.

Adding to your list, NothingClever:

6. Search as well as bring dogs into the downstairs neighbors' apartment

7. Possibly searched other unnamed neighbor/s apartments...possibly brought dogs in as well

Believe they are looking for evidence to corroborate the events as told to LE by those who were last known to have seen or been near Kortne.

 

[JurysOut]

Do they *normally* bring in dogs trained at finding human remains for a missing person?

Again....here my common sense tells me that they must have found something because why would you use dogs for that purpose unless you have something that you know you may need them?

Or is that a normal thing to just 'cover the bases' just in case? I honestly don't know....I'm asking. LOL

It seems pretty common to bring in dogs, I think. There's been a lot of it the last few years.

Were I feeling skeptical, I might think that whatever LE agency the dog belongs to perhaps likes to bring the dog out whenever possible. A well trained dog is a significant expense.

My sentence structure is rapidly deteriorating.

Must be nap time.


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[epiphany]

I believe previously we were only aware of, or at least only talked about, the "human remains" dog that we learned was brought into Kortne's apartment.

Don't recall discussion on thread of "dogs" being brought into downstairs neighbors' apartment when search of that apartment occurred. Only learned that recently.

 

[cluciano63]

LE usually gets search warrants even if given permission, just in case they find anything.

 

[AndreaBingham]

Many assumptions are being made that I don't understand. Remember that we are being told next to nothing about the case. Even locally, other than the few outlandish rumors, we are hearing nothing about the investigation. I don't think that the following assumptions are safe to make: That MR wasn't given a LDT, whether CP passed/failed/dogs involved or their findings/ etc.

One thing that we can't ignore. The "spot on the form" that was alluded to by LE was initially filled in with "kidnapping" and later filled in with "homicide". What happened between the two search warrants to result in this change? Obviously, the police know at least one thing that they don't plan on telling us.

 

[epiphany]

Yes. Likely, IMO, because LE asked. If nothing else, they did it because they knew CP went there after leaving Kortne's and stopping off at the convenience store and were just covering all their bases. I just don't understand why one would be given the LDT and not the other. Maybe MR saw something...heard something...and they know he's CP's "boy" and would probably not rat him out.

I dunno. I find myself questioning a lot LE has done (or not done) in this case.

Respectfully Bolded by Me

If so, then all the more reason to ask MR, Jr to take one, and have it indicate deception. IMO, MR, Jr not involved.