PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #4

[Meems]

I might have misread then. It sounded like because we know one name and not another name that that meant LE was "involved" in Kortne's disappearance.

Nah .. just one more "possibility" that is most likely not a "probability" but non the less one more thing to make ya go hhhuuummmm .. just kinda weird that they didn't make public who the last responder was .. could be to go into CYOA mode b/c he didn't make physical contact in a missing persons case OR could be he had an "accidental" encounter w/Kortne and something terrible happened. Maybe Kortne was still in "fight cat" mode and he tried to subdue her and something terrible happened .. he paniced and well ... hhuummmm

maybe-if-maybe-if-maybe-if Maybe/If LE held a presser .. there wouldn't be so many Maybe/Ifs ...

Just like .. does LE still have Kortnes car? (if so possible evidence/crime scene?) hhuummmm

Why is crime scene tape still up on her apt over a month after her disappearance? (possible evidence/crime scene?) or perhaps it's at the parents request until Kortne comes home ... I guess I could put crime scene tape around my house and keep it there as long as I wanted to .. hhuuummmm

whynopressersorsearchesnonamedpersonsofinterest...hhhuummmmm

 

[JurysOut]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I knew I missed something Cluciano. Can you point me to the link that the last officer never left his vehicle? That, to me, is certainly a failure to carry out his duties.

No one can point you to any official regarding the last visit.

You may wish to request clarification from the Lebanon County DA's office.

I'd love to hear some actual facts.


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[StacyMarie83]

O/T What scares me the most is----a strong-willed girl like Mickey Shunick who took precautions by carrying mace and TRYING to be safe at a late hour was still kidnapped and murdered--even after she got a hold of the knife. I really do believe LE needs to make a statement about safety...KS isn't the only woman in town (ESPECIALLY if they believe it is random perp...maybe they don't). I'll get of the subject now lol

 

[JurysOut]

O/T What scares me the most is----a strong-willed girl like Mickey Shunick who took precautions by carrying mace and TRYING to be safe at a late hour was still kidnapped and murdered--even after she got a hold of the knife. I really do believe LE needs to make a statement about safety...KS isn't the only woman in town (ESPECIALLY if they believe it is random perp...maybe they don't). I'll get of the subject now lol

You're right. They could tell us what *didn't* happen. That would be great.

Yikes, it's late & I have an early meeting.

Please solve this without me. That'd be great, too.


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[reedus23]

The public should consider local LE a suspect in this case until LE presents information sufficient to clear them.

They were there the night Kortne vanished......3 times!

They were among the last to make contact with the missing person!

Details about the last LE visit to the missing person's residence is being withheld by LE!

They have maintained silence about the investigation and key details, such as 911 calls!

Wake up Palmyra and Lebanon County! Hold your LE agencies accountable for these VERY suspicious circumstances!

So the theory is that the LEO, after it has been recorded that he was responding to Kortne's residence, showed up, knocked her out or otherwise subdued her and threw her into his squad car. Then, took Kortne in his squad car and either disposed of her or took her to where he is holding her, taking no further calls during that time? Just trying to figure out how that one plays out.

Also, I will say again, if withholding information equated to active involvement, every case would be solved in 24 hours because LE always withholds information.

 

[cluciano63]

It has also been suggested that he DID knock, and did not get an answer because the neighbor who called was busy disposing of Kortne at that time...so it is not as though the only scenario revolves around LE.

 

[Boots]

SBM

More than a few locals consider Lebanon County to be secretive at best, corrupt at worst.

MOO, Lebanon County doesn't like 'others' coming into their county to tell them how to do their jobs. JMO, Lebanon County officials 'stick together' and do not take kindly to 'outside interference'. FWIW

 

[reedus23]

I agree that LE owes us nothing.

However, as a local I'd appreciate some assurance that this wasn't the act of some random evil doer within walking distance of my town. I don't want tiny details. A broad brush is fine.

Is some cases LE will issue a statement saying they won't be making any statements. We haven't even gotten that.

I don't let my daughter take out the trash after dark. Just sayin'

According to people who've been involved with emergency management in surrounding counties for decades, it's not completely outrageous to imagine some sort of cover up could be happening. Maybe not even about the possible crime itself. There could be internal machinations we know nothing about.

If there *is* a feasibility study about consolidating police departments underway (document posted up thread), this would be a very bad time to have an officer responding from a nearby municipality who took longer to get there or didn't know the players or the neighborhood.

There's a little funding for consolidated departments. Not a lot, but these are very small departments.

If a kidnapping/murder happened while they were testing out the consolidation process, that could be bad.

More than a few locals consider Lebanon County to be secretive at best, corrupt at worst.

It's not as much of a reach as a casual onlooker might think, IMO.

I don't have a strong feeling that LE is doing something awful. But I'm not taking it off the table.


So, yeah...you folks that think Kortne may have wandered off - keep that on the table too.

With zero information available, every theory is a viable theory.


I wish Kortne had left a clue. Well, I guess she's made it clear that whatever happened to her probably didn't happen in her apartment, so there's that. Maybe.


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The first bold I absolutely agree with 100%. I do think it's irresponsible not to communicate to the public. I just don't think that automatically puts them on a list of potential suspects.

The second bold I also absolutely agree with 100%. Again, I must have misread the posts because I took it to mean covering up the crime itself. I absolutely would not put it past LE to cover up issues that may draw questions concerning how they carried out their duties.

Jury, I think I'm following your logic more clearly now and I can see and agree with those points here. Thanks so much. I could be wrong but at some point the word involvement was used and I think I took that to mean involvement with Kortne disappearing. Thanks again for clarifying!!!!!

 

[Meems]

So the theory is that the LEO, after it has been recorded that he was responding to Kortne's residence, showed up, knocked her out or otherwise subdued her and threw her into his squad car. Then, took Kortne in his squad car and either disposed of her or took her to where he is holding her, taking no further calls during that time? Just trying to figure out how that one plays out.

Also, I will say again, if withholding information equated to active involvement, every case would be solved in 24 hours because LE always withholds information.

Really .. I think everyone is just looking at ALL angles as a possibility .. Isn't that really what this forum is here for? Police are not "above the law" just because they are "the law" .. Not all follow the law just because they took an oath to uphold it ... honestly I don't think specuating on LE's involvment is any different than speculating on MR's, CP's or any of the neighbors involvement OR the possibility that Kortne just walked away. At this point .. with NO information coming from LE, the media, the parents, their attorney, her friends .. minds are running rampant .. EVERYONE is accountable for their actions that night ...

Wasn't Drew Peterson LE? Where's Stacey?

 

[StacyMarie83]

I'm sure somebody has brought this up, I probably missed it, but on the missing facebook page facebook.com/missingcases On monday there is an article and a paragraph that states:

Todd Saksek, who owns the house adjoining Stouffer's apartment, said he did not know the young woman well and did not hear any disturbance on Sunday morning.

I knew he said he didn't know her, but I did NOT know he said he didn't hear any disturbance....when he was involved in the disturbance?!?!

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

So the theory is that the LEO, after it has been recorded that he was responding to Kortne's residence, showed up, knocked her out or otherwise subdued her and threw her into his squad car. Then, took Kortne in his squad car and either disposed of her or took her to where he is holding her, taking no further calls during that time? Just trying to figure out how that one plays out.

Also, I will say again, if withholding information equated to active involvement, every case would be solved in 24 hours because LE always withholds information.

In this case, the omissions, withholding, and lack of definitive facts is different than other cases I have followed. In my opinion, LE is at the very least in loss mitigation mode and in anticipation of a wrongful death suit.

 

[reedus23]

I agree. But her entire disappearance is improbable to me. Someone would have had to carry her out of that building without anyone seeing or hearing anything, or she would have had to head out in the night, without phone or wallet, at 4am or later. None of the available scenarios are probable, but one of them occurred.

ETA: And IF the officer did not follow out his duties as he/she should have, that is being covered up.

Agreed about this case. Each scenario seems as improbable as the next.

Regarding your ETA, I can only guess it is. ASSUMING he/she didn't carry out his/her duties, I still don't know if they've been reprimanded, fired or otherwise, although I don't know if it would happen that fast. I will agree it is certainly not being discussed, whether or not that constitutes a cover up I guess is each to form their own opinion.

 

[reedus23]

At the very LEAST, LE is (or should be) embarrassed that she vanished so soon after so many 911 calls, and that LE did not make contact on the final one. She, or someone else, could have been dead behind one of those unanswered doors, for all they knew. They knew tempers were flaring only less than an hour earlier.

Ok, I think I've taken up enough of everyone's night with my idiocy. Yes, I do believe if LE failed at their jobs, they should be held accountable. Yes, I'm frustrated with the lack of communication and frankly think it's the wrong decision. Yes, LE should be embarrassed if not more because of the timing. I'm following now and feel stupid for misreading some posts and thinking it meant actively involved with her disappearance. Thanks y'all for putting up with my questions.

 

[StacyMarie83]

Does palmyra LE take their cars home w/ them or leave them at the station?

 

[PalmyraDad]

Ok, I think I've taken up enough of everyone's night with my idiocy. Yes, I do believe if LE failed at their jobs, they should be held accountable. Yes, I'm frustrated with the lack of communication and frankly think it's the wrong decision. Yes, LE should be embarrassed if not more because of the timing. I'm following now and feel stupid for misreading some posts and thinking it meant actively involved with her disappearance. Thanks y'all for putting up with my questions.

Don't beat yourself up. We're all here together trying to work with very little information to try our best to piece together as clear a picture as possible of what happened to Kortne Ciera Stouffer. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and questions and debates. It shows that there are people, some local and some far away, that care about this girl and her family right here in my hometown. So keep asking questions and keep wrestling. I say the same to those who may be lurking. Come on in and join us. Your observations may be what turns on the light bulb in someone else's mind. That's all I wanted to say. I'll get off my soapbox now. Have a good night all and God bless the Stouffers.

 

[PalmyraDad]

Does palmyra LE take their cars home w/ them or leave them at the station?

Their cars are kept at the back lot of the municipal building on South Railroad Street.

 

[reedus23]

Really .. I think everyone is just looking at ALL angles as a possibility .. Isn't that really what this forum is here for? Police are not "above the law" just because they are "the law" .. Not all follow the law just because they took an oath to uphold it ... honestly I don't think specuating on LE's involvment is any different than speculating on MR's, CP's or any of the neighbors involvement OR the possibility that Kortne just walked away. At this point .. with NO information coming from LE, the media, the parents, their attorney, her friends .. minds are running rampant .. EVERYONE is accountable for their actions that night ...

Wasn't Drew Peterson LE? Where's Stacey?

Actually now that you say that, I hope I don't get a timeout. :what: I actually think there is some rule about LE being discussed as suspects. Think I better go to bed before I get in more trouble. Sleep well all and prayers for Kortne.

 

[StacyMarie83]

Their cars are kept at the back lot of the municipal building on South Railroad Street.

Thank you!!! Do you know what time shift-change is?! I'm just wondering if maybe the lack of concern (did LE knock/didn't they) could of been an end of the night 'i want to go home and not deal with this AGAIN' kind of thing Appreciate the information!

 

[parker38]

I was just thinking of all that time before KS and CP returned to her
apt.
She was already mad because of her boyfriend's arrest so this
kettle started boiling before they even got to the bars.
What if something happened there which would bring he/she
to KS apt. after closing? We know nothing of that time just
as we know nothing of those am/pm hours leading up to her missing.

Leaving this life behind doesn't sit well with me with such a young
woman.
If anyone remembers the DA Ray Gracar; he managed that I believe but
he was in his fifties and being a DA he most likely had reason to start
over again. But I just don't see a 21 year old doing this jmo

 

[evergreen]

It has also been suggested that he DID knock, and did not get an answer because the neighbor who called was busy disposing of Kortne at that time...so it is not as though the only scenario revolves around LE.

the neighbor who called police is disposing of the body? Not sure I would call police if I were doing that. considering they could be there in 5 minutes. just thinking out loud.