Patsy Ramsey

[bettybaby00]

Can you imagine immediately leaving town for an "important meeting" when your child is lying brutally battered and bashed in the morgue? No, these people did not act rationally - which is exactly why the ridiculous ransom note and the crime scene are so nonsensical. This forum tries to make sense of all the bizarre evidence over and over. But it is impossible.

"In the morgue," no, she was still lying lifeless on the living room floor.

To your last point, no matter the crime, or the perpetrator, there will likely always be aspects of a case that don't fit, or make sense. Sometimes even when there is a confession.

 

[bettybaby00]

Let me clarify. With the sexual assault and strangulation already done, obviously they'd have had to explain how that happened. Throwing her down the stairs wouldn't explain that all away. The self incriminating evidence very well might have been already there. They did try to get out of Dodge, just a little too late. IMO only.

For me it has always, and will always circle back to the prior sexual "contact."

There was no way they could "throw her down the stairs," and say they found her there the next morning. Not only would the autopsy disprove that, but it would have also revealed the previous abuse. For me, that was the can of worms that scared the hell out of them.

 

[gramcracker]

the fibers on the back of JB's shirt matched the black fibers found in her pubic area: in the blood smears on her skin which corresponded to the blood in her panties, and in the folds of her labia. which according to the ME indicated that someone had wiped the child's pubic area with a cloth

there is a reason why BPD pointedly asked during the interrogations what JR was in the habit of doing with his dry-clean-only clothing, such as the black wool shirt from Israel that he wore to the Whites' party. which IMO is where the black fiber deduction may have come from. I don't see it addressed in the usual book sources, and I don't yet have SD's book thoroughly marked for reference

 

[questfortrue]

plus, a simple search of this forum would give an answer

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-really-killed-JonBenet&p=8998149#post8998149

Well, thanks, Red. I went back and saw Roshomon’s post there about the black fibers.

What is interesting, imo, is the responses of JR in several interviews, including the black shirt discussion of 2000. Some may recall JR’s varying and multiple responses about breaking of the basement window. His response on the flashlight is also accompanied with extraneous information. (Why did JR bring up that he doesn’t even know if the flashlights in the home worked, because they always needed batteries?) One interpretation might be that it points away from him, redirects from the topic at hand as to whose Maglite it was. When someone consistently deflects when questioned about evidence, it leads to more questions, at least for me.

IIRC, the shirt was an expensive wool item from Israel which would have been dry-cleaned. He wore it to the W’s party that evening. The family arrived home from delivering gifts after the W’s party between 9:00 and 10:00. It has never been mentioned that they were doing laundry at that hour. JB was carried up asleep and placed in bed. It was PR who changed her party pants and dressed her for bed in the longjohns while she was “zonked”, or at least that is what JR and PR said.

Folks can read JR’s statements for themselves in the 2000 interview. My takeaway from it was that JR couldn’t remember what he did with his shirt that night. Here’s a construction of his responses:

1) Normally dry-cleaning items go to the cleaners.
2) Clothes which would be dry-cleaned he would hang up, or place on a chair, so that he could get more than one cycle out of them.
3) If it was a suit or sweater, he would not throw such an item on the floor.
4) But he wasn’t that organized or “religious” about it. It could have ended up in a pile of laundry on the floor, especially if it was a shirt. And someone then could have placed it into the laundry chute. There could have been a mistake. And a shirt might have been thrown into the laundry chute by mistake.
5) JR did not know the final destination of the laundry chute.

Does anyone think PR was tidying up and picking up clothing and putting them into the laundry chute that night? Also, according to JR she went to bed, and he was up with BR putting a toy together, so conceivably he was still in his party attire. Anyone think PR got up after JR went to bed and began tidying up?

But JR is giving an explanation about how the shirt could have ended up in the basement. Could it be that he doesn’t want anyone to even think for a minute he may have worn the shirt into the basement? It’s a head scratcher. Or it could also be called deflection.

JMHO.

 

[redheadedgal]

I just searched through the link you provided, and nothing there answers the question: did Kolar mention the fibers from Mr Ramsey’s shirt.

yes, it's there. i don't make a habit of not pointing something out when i point it out.

 

[Mama2JML]

According to cynic, Kolar makes no mention of black fibers collected from the victim's underwear/pubic region and purported to be consistent with JR's sweater.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...hree-critical-questions&p=8299171#post8299171

 

[elannia]

Can you imagine immediately leaving town for an "important meeting" when your child is lying brutally battered and bashed in the morgue? No, these people did not act rationally - which is exactly why the ridiculous ransom note and the crime scene are so nonsensical. This forum tries to make sense of all the bizarre evidence over and over. But it is impossible.

Even worse... just leave her laying there in front if the Christmas tree.. Makes me sick to think about. No way I could leave my murdered child and just go on

 

[elannia]

I just cant believe patsy would have the time to get JB changed and into bed and finish up (correct me if im wrong didnt she do some last minute packing?) and be in bed before john. I know him and burke put a toy together but didnt he say patsy was in bed before him?

 

[elannia]

I just cant believe patsy would have the time to get JB changed and into bed and finish up (correct me if im wrong didnt she do some last minute packing?) and be in bed before john. I know him and burke put a toy together but didnt he say patsy was in bed before him?

 

[Mama2JML]

Can you imagine immediately leaving town for an "important meeting" when your child is lying brutally battered and bashed in the morgue? No, these people did not act rationally - which is exactly why the ridiculous ransom note and the crime scene are so nonsensical. This forum tries to make sense of all the bizarre evidence over and over. But it is impossible.

This is what JR said to Barbara Walters in March of 2000, regarding his call to the pilot, on the 26th:

"BARBARA WALTERS: It was reported also Mr. Ramsey that shortly after you found your daughter's body, that you called the pilot of your plane to arrange a flight to Atlanta. Is that true?

JOHN RAMSEY: I did. We had um ... been asked to leave the house. Within minutes of that happening the police took the house over. We had no where to go. Atlanta was our home. Uh, we lived in Atlanta for 25 years. That's where our family was. We wanted to go home."​

Source: http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000ramseyonbarbarawalters.htm

 

[THE BUNK]

This is what JR said to Barbara Walters in March of 2000, regarding his call to the pilot, on the 26th:

"BARBARA WALTERS: It was reported also Mr. Ramsey that shortly after you found your daughter's body, that you called the pilot of your plane to arrange a flight to Atlanta. Is that true?

JOHN RAMSEY: I did. We had um ... been asked to leave the house. Within minutes of that happening the police took the house over. We had no where to go. Atlanta was our home. Uh, we lived in Atlanta for 25 years. That's where our family was. We wanted to go home."​

Source: http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000ramseyonbarbarawalters.htm

1. That "um" speaks volumes. Almost like he had to think about what the lie would be.

2.It's not like they went to an unknown location. They went to a place that anyone could have traced them to. A person who knew enough about their

3. You guys remember Fred Goldman from the OJ trial? The father of the murdered boyfriend. One of the things I remember so vividly about him was how livid he was for justice! His interviews were so heatbreaking because you knew he wanted to see justice for his son. A son that was an adult, not even a child.

I could not see Fred Goldman leaving his baby daughter on the gurney while her killer was still free.

Where's the sense of outrage and vengeance in John Ramsey? I'm not expecting him to be Batman or anything, but I would expect more of an interest in seeing his daughter's killer put to justice.

 

[bettybaby00]

Some might find that a reasonable explanation, but i don't. It's another example of JRs ever evolving statements. he definitively says initially, "I have an important business meeting." Which in retrospect makes no sense b/c they were scheduled to be away on 2 different vacation trips. was he going to charter some type of private transportation from the cruise ship to Atlanta for the meeting? Additionally, despite the Rs believing "Atlanta was home," it's hard to believe that they were completely ignorant to the fact the police would still want to speak with them, especially given the dead body in the living room.

Did he think he could simply provide LE further info via a conference call?

 

[THE BUNK]

"I have an important business meeting."

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but did this business meeting even occur? Who attended it besides John Ramsey?

 

[bettybaby00]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but did this business meeting even occur? Who attended it besides John Ramsey?

Obviously there was no business meeting. Like I asked, was he going to get some sort of private transportation from the Big Red Boat to Atlanta?

And The outrage? I asked about that in another thread. Never saw it. Instead, during the CNN interview he informs their national audience he's not angry. And as we know through various accounts, JAR thought the killer deserved "forgiveness."

 

[Mama2JML]

Some might find that a reasonable explanation, but i don't. It's another example of JRs ever evolving statements. he definitively says initially, "I have an important business meeting." Which in retrospect makes no sense b/c they were scheduled to be away on 2 different vacation trips. was he going to charter some type of private transportation from the cruise ship to Atlanta for the meeting? Additionally, despite the Rs believing "Atlanta was home," it's hard to believe that they were completely ignorant to the fact the police would still want to speak with them, especially given the dead body in the living room.

Did he think he could simply provide LE further info via a conference call?

BBM
Who heard Mr. Ramsey say this? Who reported it? Where can I find more info?...

 

[Anti-K]

Well, thanks, Red. I went back and saw Roshomon’s post there about the black fibers.

What is interesting, imo, is the responses of JR in several interviews, including the black shirt discussion of 2000. Some may recall JR’s varying and multiple responses about breaking of the basement window. His response on the flashlight is also accompanied with extraneous information. (Why did JR bring up that he doesn’t even know if the flashlights in the home worked, because they always needed batteries?) One interpretation might be that it points away from him, redirects from the topic at hand as to whose Maglite it was. When someone consistently deflects when questioned about evidence, it leads to more questions, at least for me.

IIRC, the shirt was an expensive wool item from Israel which would have been dry-cleaned. He wore it to the W’s party that evening. The family arrived home from delivering gifts after the W’s party between 9:00 and 10:00. It has never been mentioned that they were doing laundry at that hour. JB was carried up asleep and placed in bed. It was PR who changed her party pants and dressed her for bed in the longjohns while she was “zonked”, or at least that is what JR and PR said.

Folks can read JR’s statements for themselves in the 2000 interview. My takeaway from it was that JR couldn’t remember what he did with his shirt that night. Here’s a construction of his responses:

1) Normally dry-cleaning items go to the cleaners.
2) Clothes which would be dry-cleaned he would hang up, or place on a chair, so that he could get more than one cycle out of them.
3) If it was a suit or sweater, he would not throw such an item on the floor.
4) But he wasn’t that organized or “religious” about it. It could have ended up in a pile of laundry on the floor, especially if it was a shirt. And someone then could have placed it into the laundry chute. There could have been a mistake. And a shirt might have been thrown into the laundry chute by mistake.
5) JR did not know the final destination of the laundry chute.

Does anyone think PR was tidying up and picking up clothing and putting them into the laundry chute that night? Also, according to JR she went to bed, and he was up with BR putting a toy together, so conceivably he was still in his party attire. Anyone think PR got up after JR went to bed and began tidying up?

But JR is giving an explanation about how the shirt could have ended up in the basement. Could it be that he doesn’t want anyone to even think for a minute he may have worn the shirt into the basement? It’s a head scratcher. Or it could also be called deflection.

JMHO.

Yes, but Rashomon expresses surprise that Kolar did NOT mention the fibers from Mr Ramsey’s shirt.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

yes, it's there. i don't make a habit of not pointing something out when i point it out.

I think you’ve made a mistake. No one at the link you posted mentions Kolar talking about the fibers, nor are there any posts there that verified the fibers in any way.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

BBM
Who heard Mr. Ramsey say this? Who reported it? Where can I find more info?...

I think I have this somewhere, but I’m heading out of town for a cpl days. I’ll have a look when I come back – if no one else has answered this for you.
...

AK

 

[gramcracker]

BBM
Who heard Mr. Ramsey say this? Who reported it? Where can I find more info?...

PMPT - on Dec 26, JR told (Acting) Cmdr of Detectives Larry Mason that he was going to ATL because he had "something really important to attend to"

IRMI - during the June interviews, ST asked JR about the plan to return to ATL: because he "wasn't thinking clearly" and because PR "enjoys the country club and the shopping there, and she can't find lipstick in Boulder"

FF - on Dec 26, JR told Detective Bill Palmer that he had "an important business meeting" in ATL

 

[redheadedgal]

I think you’ve made a mistake. No one at the link you posted mentions Kolar talking about the fibers, nor are there any posts there that verified the fibers in any way.
..

any mistake, is not mine. the question was "did kolar mention the fibers"? the post i pointed out gave an answer to that question.

::bangs head::