Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

[suzihawk]

JVS wants to be allowed t serve his sentence in Aruba. He does not want to be in jail in Peru for fear they will kill him.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/493794/joran-van-der-sloot-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel
The link is in spanish
Google translation. http://translate.google.com/transla...t-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel&sl=es&tl=en

Thank you, fran

:boohoo: Shaking my head in disbelief. :snooty:

 

[rossva]

Perhaps he had originally planned on telling the truth, and actually giving up the location of Natalees body, and changed his mind last minute, but the true location was on the laptop? Maybe he had planned on trying the extortion game once again?

I doubt that too. I mean, people knew what he was doing (he asked for money, got the money, and then admitted he lied about the location of the body) so what could he possibly be afraid of she could reveal that was not already known?

 

[georger]

Second, it has been stated countless times that Natalee "was last seen" entering a car with Joran and the Kalpoes. The problem is, if one analyzes the statements from her friends/students at the bar, one discovers that NONE of them is on the record as having seen her get in a car with anyone that night. Only two people reported even seeing her leave the bar, one said "looked like with Joran" and the other one described her being with the Kalpoes, but said nothing about Joran. Despite this, Beth immediately seemed to focus on Joran and Joran only, and would go on to declare in a t.v. interview that "20-40" of Natalee's friends had seen her get in the car with Joran and the Kalpoes.

[/quote]

I remember this brief confusion over who, what, when, and in what order
things happened - you are referring to. The problem is, no matter which Permutation you
pick. the Kalpoes and Joran were together in the end with Natalie. The
Kalpoes extracated themselves saying they left Natalie with Joran and
Natalie was alive when they left Joran (on the beach?). This leaves Joran
with Natalie. That became The Theory of the Case. It was then alleged
Joran may have called the Kalpoes and enlisted their help disposing of
Natalie's body. The Kalpoes said "NO!". The Kalpoes said they knew nothing more.
Joran said something like "I left Natalie on the beach .... dont know more ...nada".

Now, what any of that has to do with 'Natalie's mother' hatching a plot
to frame Joran, is totally beyong me. Joran is self implicated. His implication does not
rely on Natalie's mother .... or me eating Lasagna on Tuesdays!

In a backward way you might as well say: "Natalie's mother's plot against Joran proves
Natalie's mother wanted to get rid of Natalie so sent her to Aruba where she knew she would be murdered by somebody". That of course is unproven nonsense. But what you are
claiming is logically tantamount to a claim of that nature ...

Your premises have no grounding in reality, don't co-join, and are wrong.

 

[suzihawk]

I think JVS was, did, knew etc all kinds of scrupulous people. International gambling and sex trafficking? No small french fry stuff here. IF the computer theory turns out to be true (?) I think he was scared for his own safety--as always, not for the protection OF someone else...just what may happen to him if "they" were implicated.

Remember there had to be more than just daddy involved in the cover up for him and the mention of the level of corruption down there. Everything didn't happen via a computer link nor did JVS live in a vacuum.

Didn't Joran have a god-father that was some big muckity muck? Can't remember if he was a politician, judge or police. I even remember people referring to as 'god daddy'. It was thought that he had something to do with the covering up for JVS and/or Paulus. Gad, I wish I could remember all these million details from five years ago.

 

[songline]

JVS wants to be allowed t serve his sentence in Aruba. He does not want to be in jail in Peru for fear they will kill him.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/493794/joran-van-der-sloot-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel
The link is in spanish
Google translation. http://translate.google.com/transla...t-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel&sl=es&tl=en

Thank you, fran

This SOBMF infuriates me, how dare he snuff these young girls life out as if it does not matter?
He must never be allowed to serve his time in a civilized prison / Aruba.
He needs to serve the time where he did the crime - Peru has some wild prisons. He needs to be in the general population and experience the fear and humiliation that these 2 girls felt. Get some major beatings there. Just for starters, and maybe he will get killed.
He had no value for their lives, I cant have any value for his.
I do feel sorry for his mom.

 

[abbra]

fran,

The immigration document is legitimate- it is not a forgery. Beth went through customs at 7:45, which means she probably arrived there at app. 7:00. Why she has said consistently that she arrived at 11:00 is something for her to explain. Btw, there is an employee at the airport who has verified the earlier arrival time.

As a mother whose daughter was killed by a drunk driver I want to say this: The body and mind go into shock mode to cope with the horrific realities that victims face. To this day I do not remember the State Troopers calling and telling me I was needed at the hospital promptly, I do not remember time, Places, Dates or other and have had to ask several family members who were with me what went on at the hospital, with the police, with the funeral home, with the man that killed my daughter and her friend. We as victims live in a slow motion world and go through the motions of living but we cannot comprehend what has happened until we allow ourselves to open our heads and hearts to those feelings of anger and grief.
There is no doubt in my mind that Beth Holloway suffered a traumatic shock and fear as she was informed of her daughters missing. To her in her mind she feels 11 oclock is the time she arrived at the Aruban Airport. Thats why she may repeat that time constantly because in her mind that what she remembers.
Granted perhaps her timeline is off , I couldn't think straight and didn't know whether I was coming or going for days on end.
Beth Holloway may not be able to grieve because Natalees body was never found. Every time Joran Van Der Sloot brought up Natalees death on prime time TV he was sticking the daggers into the heart of Beth and her family. And she still had no body to grieve and that shock takes over to help her cope.
If you ask medical personel they will tell you that the body does go into shock so that it can try and function during times of extreme duress and that persons suffering from shock usually don't remember anything during that time.

 

[songline]

Didn't Joran have a god-father that was some big muckity muck? Can't remember if he was a politician, judge or police. I even remember people referring to as 'god daddy'. It was thought that he had something to do with the covering up for JVS and/or Paulus. Gad, I wish I could remember all these million details from five years ago.

I do remember something as well, and yes I do believe that his father helped cover up Natalee's murder.
I dont think his family can help him in Peru. He needs to stay in Peru and pay his dues there.

 

[suzihawk]

Thank you so very much. Now I am more confused. Did he actually go out for a coffee run or did he stage this happeneing.. I'm under the impression MF stated there were two cups of coffee found in the room...Could it be he went to get coffee, went inside the room and decided to come back out pretend he didn't have a key..Was he hoping the person who opened the door would go in and find her so he could claim the murder occurred when he was out geting coffee for the two of them.. If what I just posted doesn't make sense, please be gentle, like I stated I have not read everything that has been posted...And I never followed the NH case extensively either.. Only thing I know is what I saw on TV about her disappearance..JMO

No, your assumptions are the same many of us have made. I think he was staging an alibi. Either for the camera's sake or... hoping the hotel employee would discovery the body with him so he could claim he was out of the hotel when it happened.

 

[georger]

I think she was killed because Joran needed and wanted her money.

I think she was killed because unwittingly she ran up against somebody
who literally trades in people's lives ........... like a self appointed JUDGE!

oH, DID i SAY THAT!? yEP, HIS dADY WAS A jUDGE.

 

[fran]

fran,

The immigration document is legitimate- it is not a forgery. Beth went through customs at 7:45, which means she probably arrived there at app. 7:00. Why she has said consistently that she arrived at 11:00 is something for her to explain. Btw, there is an employee at the airport who has verified the earlier arrival time.

As for the students, please provide an example of one of them testifying to Natalee getting in the car. Yes, everyone (last night, the "Dateline" special repeated this, again without any examples) maintains that "Natalee was seen" entering the car, but the individual statements do not reflect this. I realize Joran and the Kalpoes admitted being in the car with her, but as you know, there was initially some doubt as to whether or not they even knew who Natalee was, or were confusing her with another blonde.

That doesn't mean I necessarily doubt that Natalee got into a car with them, but it does seem very strange that none of her friends were willing to go on the record, individually, about actually witnessing it. Of course, this hasn't stopped Beth and company, or any mainstream journalist, from declaring that they did.

I think there are a myriad of disturbing questions in both of these cases.

They showed the alleged receipt on the televised supposed investigative report done that included the two self-proclaimed psychics. The receipt was NOT genuine, it was a fake. Sorry, try again.

Uhmmmmm.............I don't know about the alleged witness, but I DO KNOW that lot's of people remembered one thing and gosh!! came up with revelations a year or two later. Sorry. not buyin' the 'eye-witness' that has risen from the depths years after the fact.

Going over the MB groups testimonies is fruitless and a waste of time. The three BOYS - J2K, admitted they were with Natalee, that they drove away with Natalee, so who's disputing that? What's the point?

nice try though,
fran

 

[Kimmer]

Does anyone have a link to the photo of Joran when he was in the police car with the blue lights behind him...I have been trying to locate it on the web and cannot find it for the life of me....Thanks

 

[CBTampa]

No, your assumptions are the same many of us have made. I think he was staging an alibi. Either for the camera's sake or... hoping the hotel employee would discovery the body with him so he could claim he was out of the hotel when it happened.

[[/I]

I totally agree with this. He wanted a witness that he was outside of that room..locked out. Thanks wasn't enough.

 

[songline]

fran,

The immigration document is legitimate- it is not a forgery. Beth went through customs at 7:45, which means she probably arrived there at app. 7:00. Why she has said consistently that she arrived at 11:00 is something for her to explain. Btw, there is an employee at the airport who has verified the earlier arrival time.

As a mother whose daughter was killed by a drunk driver I want to say this: The body and mind go into shock mode to cope with the horrific realities that victims face. To this day I do not remember the State Troopers calling and telling me I was needed at the hospital promptly, I do not remember time, Places, Dates or other and have had to ask several family members who were with me what went on at the hospital, with the police, with the funeral home, with the man that killed my daughter and her friend. We as victims live in a slow motion world and go through the motions of living but we cannot comprehend what has happened until we allow ourselves to open our heads and hearts to those feelings of anger and grief.
There is no doubt in my mind that Beth Holloway suffered a traumatic shock and fear as she was informed of her daughters missing. To her in her mind she feels 11 oclock is the time she arrived at the Aruban Airport. Thats why she may repeat that time constantly because in her mind that what she remembers.
Granted perhaps her timeline is off , I couldn't think straight and didn't know whether I was coming or going for days on end.
Beth Holloway may not be able to grieve because Natalees body was never found. Every time Joran Van Der Sloot brought up Natalees death on prime time TV he was sticking the daggers into the heart of Beth and her family. And she still had no body to grieve and that shock takes over to help her cope.
If you ask medical personel they will tell you that the body does go into shock so that it can try and function during times of extreme duress and that persons suffering from shock usually don't remember anything during that time.

I am so sorry for your loss, and I sure do understand the feeling of becoming crystallized when the body gets shocked.
My daughter has mental issues has done things that made my hair grow straight, my little girl is gone transformed to a very sick person; NO it is not the same at all.
I do understand the feeling of being crystallized to cope sometimes.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I'd like to make a common sense response to Unreals's theories:

1. No one connected with this case--not Joran, not the Kalpoes, not Joran's attorney, not the Aruban authorities, not Joran's father, not the MB students--has ever disputed that Natalee left with Joran and the Kalpoes. After five years, this is an established fact.
2. There is now tape and documents from the extortion case in which Joran admits he knows where Natalee's body is. In addition to the extortion attempt and the undercover video of Joran admitting he was present when Natalee died, now we have accounts that he is telling Peruvian LE he knows where her body is. While Joran is clearly an habitual liar, one thing is consistent about his statements: he knows what happened to Natalee and where her body is. See point 1.
3. Who benefits from the unfounded claims that Beth Holloway is somehow dishonest or that Natalee had a bad home life?? Only Joran, his family, Arubans who hope to cover up the death of a tourist or the corruption of LE that declined to prosecute the son of prominent man, and others who hope to profit from this case being a mystery. It's never been a mystery. Not even the unwillingness of Aruban LE to prosecute is a mystery. The only things we don't know are how Natalee died and what Joran did with her body.
4. How anyone can look at the evidence already available to the public in Stephany's murder and not conclude that Joran is a killer is beyond me. Even his various attorneys are not proclaiming his innocence. The hope is to get him incarcerated in the most favorable spot. There is a law in the US that allows the US to press for the extradition of those who are suspected of murdering US nationals in other countries. Peru and the US have an extradition treaty, so that he may well face murder charges, as well as extortion charges, in the US. Of course he wants to go back to Aruba; he got away with murder there.
5. Beth Holloway got on a plane and flew to Aruba to find her missing daughter, I don't care a rat's patootie when she got on or off a plane or whether her version of the timeline of her actions fits with one reconstructed by someone who wasn't there and doesn't know her. It doesn't matter if she and Natalee's father was divorced or whether she and Natalee got along at the time of the disappearance. Beth, Jug Twitty, Dave Holloway and their family and friends have fought like tigers to find this girl's body and bring her home. For five years. Beth coughs up thousands of dollars in the extortion sting in the hope of finding the body. Now that yet another family has been robbed of a young daughter at the beginning of adult life, it is ludicrous to rehash these so-called discrepancies about Beth's movements and motives in Aruba.

Unreals, it might be time to look at Joran and ask yourself what there is about his actions in the past five years that suggests he is an innocent man being framed by two governments and two different families.

 

[hollyblue]

Didn't Joran have a god-father that was some big muckity muck? Can't remember if he was a politician, judge or police. I even remember people referring to as 'god daddy'. It was thought that he had something to do with the covering up for JVS and/or Paulus. Gad, I wish I could remember all these million details from five years ago.

Yes, IIRC, his GF was a member of LE of some kind. They even did a little bit of an interview....him stating more or less that JVS was a handful and in fact, did have an explosive temperament.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Does anyone have a link to the photo of Joran when he was in the police car with the blue lights behind him...I have been trying to locate it on the web and cannot find it for the life of me....Thanks

From Amanda's photobucket.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...ee Holloway -Aruba --- Stephany Flores -Peru/

 

[BuzzieCat]

Then where did the danish come from? This entire coffee run episode is so confusing.

It's not totally out of the question that he already had coffee cups, empty or filled, in his room, along with snacks of some kind. But I fully admit, I have no idea if there might be a tape of him going out to get them, then returning, doing lord only knows what, and then coming out into the hall to make his alibi attempt. I am eagerly awaiting any further video that might be forthcoming. Like others, I wish we could get ALL JVDS-related video with continuous run, even though it might be terribly boring to watch most of it, just so we could see what kind of time lapse there was and if there is possibly anyone else shown going into/out of JVDS' room (though I highly doubt that). I can see why they don't put it out there because most people would find it too dull to watch - cut to the chase and all that.

Didn't Joran have a god-father that was some big muckity muck? Can't remember if he was a politician, judge or police. I even remember people referring to as 'god daddy'. It was thought that he had something to do with the covering up for JVS and/or Paulus. Gad, I wish I could remember all these million details from five years ago.

I don't have a link but was thinking I read recently that JVDS' godfather was something like a chief of police. That sort of clicked with me because, if true, it would give the PVDS and JVDS a good way to get JVDS out of the charges without having to be "influential," a full-fledged judge, or fabulously wealthy. Just know the right person and you can get out of it. MOO. But of course now I'm accusing the godfather and he may be totally innocent, I just don't know.

I find it frustrating because with both Aruba and Peru, it's hard to know just how influential any of these people are. Some people said PVDS was so influential, wealthy, and a judge, but then it turns out he was really only training to be a judge and may not have been that loaded after all.

Same with SF's family. Just how famous in Peru is her father really? I don't know if I could recognize or remember the names of any children of past US presidential candidates who did not win. I guess I'm hoping he's pretty well known so that the Peruvian gov't will not cave in to pressure to release JVDS to Aruba.

 

[fran]

Didn't Joran have a god-father that was some big muckity muck? Can't remember if he was a politician, judge or police. I even remember people referring to as 'god daddy'. It was thought that he had something to do with the covering up for JVS and/or Paulus. Gad, I wish I could remember all these million details from five years ago.

Maybe if you wander around here you'll remember some things you THOUGHT you'd forgot!


fran

Natalee Holloway Forum - reading only, no posting

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[georger]

suzihawk,

Yes, we've all heard that her friends saw her getting into the car, they shouted at her, she shouted something back, etc. The problem is, when you examine their individual statements, you find that none of them testified to that. If you can come up with one who is on the record saying he/she saw her get into a car, let me know, because I couldn't.

The fact that an official document shows Beth got to Aruba about four hours earler than she claimed is obviously very important. First, it establishes that she didn't tell the truth .........

It does not establish that at all! How does it establish that?
All that is established is the "possibility" of a discrepancy where
none may in fact exist at all... frankly it sounds like you are out
after Natalie Holloway's mother for some reason - you dont like her
for some reason ?

What facts back your contention up? FACTS?

You are just inventing something out of thin air that does not even
exist as an independent fact in the world, so you can run with it. It
isnt even a theory. At best its an unproven hypothesis. What it is: is
a statement on your part about something you cannot and do not even know the truth of, and yet you are building your whole case around it.

Very clearly you have something against Mrs. Holloway. What is it?

 

[Kimmer]

From Amanda's photobucket.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...ee Holloway -Aruba --- Stephany Flores -Peru/

Thank You so much, my daughter has been out of town for over a week and a half due to the death of her Grandma, I was trying to catch her up on this senslesss murderer....Thanks again.