Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

[songline]

Yes, he would keep trophies and memories. He lives in an under-world.
He is not capable to functioning in the normal world th rest of us struggle
in daily, so he takes whatever small victories and trophies wherever he can as proof of accomplishment, just like the rest of us.

Very likely somebody told him very young he was no good and it got
reinforced, and he took it to heart, and now he is what he is for the
rest of us to have to deal with ...
This isnt rocket science of some great mystery or conspiracy.

Too many of us did not get strong self esteem at home, to many of us have been yelled at or verbally abused when we were small, not because all parents do not care. ONLY because they did what was done to them, and they did not know better.
IT IS OUR RESPOSNSIBILITY to heal and correct it. Other wise the government may as well put a huge tent over most of us and give us prison gear.
I AM NOT BUYING THAT BS. He was more fortunate then most economically there are seminars and self help books by the dozen no excuses, many orked it out before there was so much help to work it all out.
the rest is BS. a poor excuse to be bad.
He is just a SOB... he had plenty of money to go heal.
Many do not come from money and decide to work it out.

 

[3doglady]

Is this the "Godfather" in Aruba?

The first Chief of Police in the Natalee case. He was said to be Joran's godfather. He retired early.

 

[cat thief]

Joran wrote a book?!

Yes it was a two part series.

The first being "How To Get Away With Murder" :Jumpie:

The second "How Not To Get Away With Murder" (in publication from a Peruvian jail cell) :argue:

 

[SleuthyGal]

I think the earlier arrival time in Aruba is very significant, because it effects everything else that Beth and co. supposedly did after they arrived.

Beth Twitty's arrival time and actions in Aruba are the least significant things even remotely connected to this case. By the time BT arrived, her daughter was already dead and buried...by none other than....JVDS or one of his helper-bees.

Doesn't matter if Beth parachuted in to Aruba, came with carrier pigeons, or on the back of a camel, at 6pm or 7pm or 9pm or 11pm or even the next day. The ONLY thing that matters is NH was in the company of JVDS and the Kalpoe brothers, which is verified by ALL of them, and was never seen again.

THAT is the only evidence that is salient here. Everything else is just an attempt to obfuscate the case and try to make it into something complicated. And it's really very simple:

Boy preys on young women in bars (has a reputation for doing so), boy meets girl (NH), boy leaves with girl (NH), boy goes to the beach with girl (NH) and then.... girl is never seen alive again. Boy says he was with girl but <insert one of many lies about what happened next > by boy.

 

[BloodshotEye]

Didn't Joran have a god-father that was some big muckity muck? Can't remember if he was a politician, judge or police. I even remember people referring to as 'god daddy'. It was thought that he had something to do with the covering up for JVS and/or Paulus. Gad, I wish I could remember all these million details from five years ago.

Haven't quite caught up yet...apologies if this has been posted already.

The Chief of Police, Jan van der Straaten, was reported to be JVDS' godfather.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

Great find! Can you also stick a copy in the Media thread, thanks.
Stephany Flores Ramirez Media Links and Images **NO DISCUSSION** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Patty G I have been looking all over the threads for those pictures of Joran's passport..I did searches but no luck. Do you happen to know where they are?

Thanks!

 

[suzihawk]

Maybe HE checked his email and was ticked that there was no email from Beth's attorney advising that money had been wired. I agree with you, there is no reason that he could ever come up with to justify murdering either Stephany or Natalie.

There was no reason for him to expect any further money from the extortion. He'd already received $25,100.00, given them the supposed location that they found unreliable and, when confronted, he said... oops, I lied (again).

 

[songline]

Maybe HE checked his email and was ticked that there was no email from Beth's attorney advising that money had been wired. I agree with you, there is no reason that he could ever come up with to justify murdering either Stephany or Natalie.

Stephanie was the winner in that card game, he lost.... what if he just wanted to rob her of her loot?
He is no good, he is calculated, he is a bum. she may have fallen prey to him without ever having been near his computer or knowing anything about Natalee.

 

[hollyblue]

Let me just put it this way. His story was that he went out for coffee, came back and found her on his laptop. Now it appears he did not go out to get coffee, he actually came out of the room with the cups and apparently pretended to be locked out of the room. So what makes you think any part of the story he told the police was the truth? If he did not go out for coffee, then how would she manage to get on his laptop without his permission long enough to find something incriminating-the room is very tiny.

With all due respect, I think you've missed the point.

1. I was giving you a theory of what she may have found on his computer.....IF the computer theory was to be believed... as stated so in my previous posts.

2. I, in fact, as stated, do not believe the computer had anything to do with it. (if anything, she may have grabbed it to say "Give me my money back or I'll take you puter." Period.) My guess, his fear was of something on his computer...hence the excuse---psychologically speaking.

3. As I've mentioned also, I don't think we have all the videos pertaining to him leaving the room in that 4 hour time frame. And with every video that is released we are open for more interpretations of what really happened and more what if's. Most irrational actions are made on the factor of fear....he feared "something" in the context of SF. What?

 

[KR2tonenow]

The first Chief of Police in the Natalee case. He was said to be Joran's godfather. He retired early.

Wow, see I missed that! Well then, that would explain the initial cover up quite a bit.

 

[impatientredhead]

Beth Twitty's arrival time and actions in Aruba are the least significant things even remotely connected to this case. By the time BT arrived, her daughter was already dead and buried...by none other than....JVDS or one of his helper-bees.

Doesn't matter if Beth parachuted in to Aruba, came with carrier pigeons, or on the back of a camel, at 6pm or 7pm or 9pm or 11pm or even the next day. The ONLY thing that matters is NH was in the company of JVDS and the Kalpoe brothers, which is verified by ALL of them, and was never seen again.

THAT is the only evidence that is salient here. Everything else is just an attempt to obfuscate the case and try to make it into something complicated. And it's really very simple:

Boy preys on young women in bars (has a reputation for doing so), boy meets girl (NH), boy leaves with girl (NH), boy goes to the beach with girl (NH) and then.... girl is never seen alive again. Boy says he was with girl but <insert one of many lies about what happened next > by boy.

Excellent post.

And generally the most simple explanation is the correct one, so I will go with the reason for the discrepancy would be an error/typo on the official document.

In the Casey Anthony case there were "official documents" with the wrong date, wrong address, etc.....

I understand people's desire to spread the blame in a tragedy. Makes the monsters seem less powerful if you can say well it wouldn't happen to me because the victim did ___________, and I wouldn't do that. It wouldn't happen to me because the victim's mother did _______________, and I wouldn't do that.

But if you really need to share Joran's responsibility with others Beth wouldn't make my first 25 suggestions.

 

[Kat]

Until there's a linky, please chock it up as a rumour. I looked on Google for ages, and didn't find a thing. The only mentions were on message boards -- and I don't think we can use those as verified links.

MOO

Mel

Hi Mel. I was looking for thread number 5 and since I'm on my son's netbook with an itty bitty screen and even smaller keyboard to type on I can't seem to find it today.

We had poster that posted that she/he had remembered that rumor (JVDS having an incident that required him to have some sort of psych care) originated from JDVS' parents during an interview (I don't know if it was written or video interview) during the Holloway case.

I can't go back and find that but there's a clue right there if anyone wants to go back and comb through the past five years of interviews with his parents.

I would try to search but I can't until a few more weeks. If no one finds it I'll be happy to try to find it also once I get my new home set up.

 

[karma-girl]

Joran wrote a book?!

Lol! Apparently so, here you go...http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3925483&page=1

 

[3doglady]

Joran wrote a book?!

Yes, I did not read it but it was discussed in detail on another website. I think it was after Dave and Beth's book. I'm sure it was full of lies but I remember the "mental institution" statement because I thought there may have been a grain of truth to it.

IRRC Natalee's aunt asked Van der Straaten about the investigation when she was in Aruba. He told her Natalee was dead and when she asked him how he knew, he replied (paraphrasing) "because I'm the investigator and you are not." Natalee's aunt discussed this on GVS but it has been several years ago and I don't have a link.

 

[songline]

Is this the "Godfather" in Aruba?

YES He is.

 

[FLNY]

I sincerely believe that accusing Beth Holloway is the last thing we went to do on this thread. Let's please just stick to the facts of this case!!~

I agree wholeheartedly!!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hi WBG, You know I admire you but what on Gods earth does this have to do with this case? :waitasec:
Been to several sweat lodges in my life and it was a purification that I really enjoyed.
there are many azz holes in this world - my advise is use your head, but dont make all sweat lodges wrong just because one azz hole was calloused.

Sorry for being critical of sweat lodges - I'd never heard of them before. Sauna's, yes, but sweat lodges, no.

The connection I'm making (I'm weird I guess) is that somebody is trying to sell us a tall story here regarding JVS's self inflicted problems.
Meaning no disrespect to people who utilize sweat lodges, if I felt I was burning up in one, I would immediately exit no matter what some guru
was telling me to do. So, I'm pointing out that someone is trying to sell us a bridge here imo.

That's all - nothing personal about sweat lodges. I'll have to work on my creative writing skills ~ :blushing:.

 

[3doglady]

Hi Mel. I was looking for thread number 5 and since I'm on my son's netbook with an itty bitty screen and even smaller keyboard to type on I can't seem to find it today.

We had poster that posted that she/he had remembered that rumor (JVDS having an incident that required him to have some sort of psych care) originated from JDVS' parents during an interview (I don't know if it was written or video interview) during the Holloway case.

I can't go back and find that but there's a clue right there if anyone wants to go back and comb through the past five years of interviews with his parents.

I would try to search but I can't until a few more weeks. If no one finds it I'll be happy to try to find it also once I get my new home set up.

In the first interview Joran gave GVS, she asked him about this.

 

[Unreals]

To those of you who have responded respectfully to my admittedly unpopular theorizing, I express my appreciation. To those who think my thoughts are unworthy of discussion, no one is forcing you to discuss them.

In Peru, nothing has been "made public." All the "evidence" against Joran, outside of the video snippets, which prove nothing other than that he entered the room with a girl who is purportedly the one who was later found dead in the same room, did the strange thing with the coffee and the hotel employee, and then later left the hotel, have consisted of ever changing leaks and pronouncements from Peruvian authorities. In my view, the authorities in Peru have little more credibility than Joran does.

We have heard nothing from Joran, and only sporadic comments from a few attorneys- I'm not even sure who his lawyer is at this point. Certainly any good defense attorney would have been questioning the wildly varying accounts of the crime scene, and be confident of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury, on that basis alone. Of course, that would happen under our system, but I'm not certain what role a defense attorney plays in the Peruvian courts; Joran's fate will be decided by three hooded judges.

I'd just like to gently suggest that we all keep an open mind about this until the real facts stop changing. All any of us should be interested in is truth and justice.

 

[impatientredhead]

Yes, I did not read it but it was discussed in detail on another website. I think it was after Dave and Beth's book. I'm sure it was full of lies but I remember the "mental institution" statement because I thought there may have been a grain of truth to it.

IRRC Natalee's aunt asked Van der Straaten about the investigation when she was in Aruba. He told her Natalee was dead and when she asked him how he knew, he replied (paraphrasing) "because I'm the investigator and you are not." Natalee's aunt discussed this on GVS but it has been several years ago and I don't have a link.

I looked for it recently to see if it was online somewhere but it appears it was published only in Dutch?