Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #18

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  • #401
There was a serious altercation here. It was not one-sided. I am
wondering now if she didnt even try to escape into the hallway and
he tackled her and dragged her back by her feet ... that scenario would
explain him then going into the hallway on a faked expedition simply to look around and test the air, for any sign of people alerted by the noise and standing in the hallway concerned, etc. Then he continues the ruse
(for the camera he knows is there) and he fakes being locked out ...

I wonder if anyone was even home in the rooms around him when this happened?

On In Sessions this morning, Jean C said that there was blood in the hallway, so your theory may be correct, JWarner.

ETA. She didn't specify, but I do believe she was referring to the little entryway into the room, rather than the actual common hallway outside the room door.
 
  • #402
  • #403
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008352-504083.html

The crime scene photos were obtained by "48 Hours | Mystery" from sources close to the investigation.

Are these genuine?

Just signed on from leaving last night. Paintr, IMHO yes those would be genuine crime scene photos. A great many of us here have seen actual CS photos, many more detailed of a victim than those. Just looking at the pics of the body, IMHO yes that is of Stephany (her hands, and her feet especially).
 
  • #404
I agree. I can't think of any reason she would be wearing his shirt. I don't think he put it on her because he made the comment that there was so much blood he was uncomfortable. So, I don't see him undressing her and re dressing her. But, who knows. jmo

This to JVDS: You caused that blood......so I think you should be made to look at it over and over together with your pet rat.
 
  • #405
Just signed on from leaving last night. Paintr, IMHO yes those would be genuine crime scene photos. A great many of us here have seen actual CS photos, many more detailed of a victim than those. Just looking at the pics of the body, IMHO yes that is of Stephany (her hands, and her feet especially).

Thank you kindly for the answer, Kat. I came to the same conclusion as I looked at the pictures more carefully. Guess I was just surprised the photos were released so quickly. I expected to wait till trial.
 
  • #406
Which picture shows her in the fetal position? I thought they said she was stretched out. And the pictures I have seen she is laying along the wall next to the bed. Will go back and look. So many different accounts.

Another question: if this had happened in the U.S. would they release the crime scene photos? Trying to remember if I have ever seen this before.tia
 
  • #407
Could it be they are looking for their 15 minutes?

One even want to become pregnant with his child.

Yuck.....another sociopath coming into the world....
It never ceases to amaze me.....especially when the inmate is in prison for killing another woman. :eek:
 
  • #408
I was translating :-). But actually, AVS didn't say "if" either, she said he may have done something to SF. But when a *mother* (especially on that has vehemently denied prior involvement in a death) says something like that, she's saying, "Okay, obviously he did kill this one."

If Joran said someone else killed SF and made it look like he did it, can you point me to that article? Hopefully the article explains that these framers killed SF in front of him so that he would know all the details of her death when he got around to confessing. Does it say how they forced her belongings & Jeep into his possession? Does it say how they made him take some of those possessions to Chile or how they made him stage the coffee videos?

These are the least of the questions I would have for a frame scenario. My biggest question is how did they get in and out of the room but aren't on the video, or perhaps Spiderman was involved (big grin)?

Really, I just can't wrap my mind around this. I mean, a lot of things are *possible* but out of everything that is possible, nothing is the least bit probable except that psycho-JVS is the murderer all the actual (not thought-up) the evidence shows he is.

But other theories would make a good sci-fi book. I'm sure JVS will write [another] one :-).

I DO love conspiracy theories, I readily acknowledge. However, this case has many puzzling questions about it. The "coincidence" meter alone is unbelievable; exact five year anniversary of Natalee's disapperance, the "extortion" story breaking on the exact day Joran was apprehended, the whole "sting" in Aruba happening on May 10, just before Joran decides (rather inexplicably, imho) to go to Peru, the fact that a security camera just happened to be located right outside his hotel room door, etc.

Joran has been vilified in the American media for five years. On only rare occasions has any "journalist" been unbiased about him, let alone interpreted anything in his favor. I think that, if he wasn't thought of as a sociopath/ psychopath/serial killer by the vast majority of the public in America and Peru (if not Aruba and the Netherlands, now), then the murder of Stephany would be looked at a lot differently by everyone.

There are many legitimate reasons to doubt the validity of the "evidence" coming from the authorities in Peru.

This is just my opinion, but I think that Joran was lured to Peru for a reason. I think he was going to be framed for something, but I don't believe it was supposed be for murder. Of course, I could easily be wrong.

I think the key to this whole case, and what first really raised my suspicions, is the fact that Stephany supposedly died early Sunday morning, but her body wasn't discovered until early Wednesday. It just has never made sense to me that any hotel would leave a room unchecked like that for three days.

So...I postulate that Stephany somehow informed Joran of what was about to happen. She was supposed to be a part of whatever was taking place, in some limited capacity (probably to lure him into something). She felt guilty, told him the truth, and he fled. She might have even urged him to take her vehicle, rationalizing that she was now in great danger herself and it would only give away the fact she was at the hotel. When those behind whatever was being planned for Joran discovered her betrayal, she was killed and a quick decision made to frame him for it.

Anyhow, that's just my conjecture. It may sound outlandish, but the truth often is. I certainly would love to view all the uncut video tape....

Unreals, I'm catching up from where I last left off (thread 11) and I've read your posts and am trying to take in your arguments but they're not convincing.

Will you please answer Cottages questions in the post above? It's not fair to keep pressing on with the 'Joran was framed theory' before answering some simple questions -

Why did he flee the hotel with bags in hand and not return when he said he would only to be tracked down in Chile, the Sporter sporting orange hair with items on him that belonged to Stephany? And would it matter any less if he fled leaving an almost dead Stephany?*

How does the above fit in with the idea that Joran was framed?

*I'm sensing you're trying to put blame on the hotel staff for not checking the room sooner. In other words, Joran leaves almost dead girls in his wake so it's not his fault?
 
  • #409
Just on Dutch TV: an exclusive interview with Anita van der Sloot. They talked about the recent developments and ofcourse about Natalee Holloway.

The interview started with Anita who talked about the first days of Natalees disappearance. Anita was in Holland when she learned there was a girl missing on Aruba and that her son Joran was the last person seen with her. She boarded the plane back to Aruba with mixed feelings. Back on the island Joran told her the story about how he dropped Natalee of at the hotel. Joran told her that Natalee probably would show up soon. When Anita saw the first posters of Natalee she thought that she had run away.

There was tension in the house. Brothers didn't understand why Joran lied and sneaked out of the house. His father told Joran that he could get arrested and that he needed to tell the truth. First they believed the story about Natalee getting dropped of at the hotel. When that story changed to the one where he left her at the beach Anita was shocked. She had doubts and thought that there may have been an accident and that Joran was scared to tell the truth.

Paul and Anita both tried to contact Natalees parents. It was very difficult to reach Beth Holloway because of the media. She could only imagine what Beth was going through. She felt horrible for her. Would have loved to hug her. Both parents (Paul and Anita) said that if Joran or one of his friends had done something they would do anything to get it out of him.

Eventually they talked with Beth. (FOX interview) She thought it was very difficult to be confronted with a mother who lost her child. Media was very agressive. They said that Paul was involved and that they where protecting Joran. They literally said that they would destroy the v/d Sloot family.

She then talks about Paul. They alwayss supported each other. Cries when she talks about Paul. It's only been 4 months since he passed away. She said that if Paul suspected Joran being involved in the disappearance of Natalee he would have taken him to the police.

She says that if you tell so many lies no one believes you. She thinks he should have worked with police and if he had known something he should have said so. If he was involved he needs to be punished for that. He has done so many stupid things according to Anita. But the Joran she knows would never murder or rape someone. She does not know the Joran who is portrayed by the media as a killer or rapist. But she knows the Joran who gambles, steals money and lies.

The death of Paulus had a huge impact on Joran. He always gave Joran advice. Joran was very sad when he came to Holland. He wouldn't leave his fathers coffin. He talked to him and sat next to him. He promised him things. Became very depressed. According to Anita he needs help. He's sick in his head. He should not only be treated for his gamble addiction but also for his personality disorder.

After Pauls death he came to Aruba and stayed 2,5 month. Helped Anita around the house. Painted the house, worked in the garden. Anita offered him psychological help. He had a couple of conversations on Aruba. Anita had contact with a Dutch institution. She became very angry when she found out he left to Peru. She doesn't know how he got the money. It was not from her. He left her a note that said that he was going to Peru to play poker. He was being followed on Aruba and that he could not stand to see the sadness in Anita's eyes. He would call her.

She doesn't want to say what they said in the first telephone call. But it was clear that she was done with Joran. She says that if you are a mom you always have that little bit of hope that everything will be allright. She says that maybe she is fooling herself. But if you dont have that hope it's very hard.

After she learned of Stephanys dead she had a telephone conversation with Joran. He said that he was on his way to Chile and that he feared for his life because he was being followed by people with posters of Natalee Holloway. He said that he was on his way to the embassy. Anita then said that there was a girl murdered and that he needed to contact the police or embassy. Joran said: what girl? Anita couldn't remember her whole name but only Flores. Joran became very quiet and started to cry. He said what happened? They didn't hurt her did they? Anita believed Joran at that moment.

Anita thinks its terrible for the parents of Stephany. She also lost a child although it was his own fault. She thinks that if he's guilty of killing Stephany he should be punished. She won't visit him in his cell because she has no reason to do so.


Her biggest fear is that he's gonna get killed. She can imagine people saying something like 'he deserves it to be there under those circumstances'. She cant blame those people. She even thinks it herself sometimes. The last things she will do for him are pay for a lawyer, give him some clothes, make sure he has a mattress and that he can wash himself.

She hopes Joran will get a fair trial. She finds it bizarre that this happened exactly 5 years after Natalee disappeared. She believes in karma. She often tought that he had a bad karma and that he attracts bad things because of that.

She hopes he feels what he has done to all the familys involved. Not only Natalee and Stephanys family but also his own.

'---------------------------

I'm sorry for the very very bad translation. I know that there are many faults but please forgive me as I'm really busy. :)

Very curious why Anita did not want to talk about the first phone call with Joran this time. She did in her earlier interview.The one where he told her that he and a girl had been stopped and robbed in the car by two men, who were shoving pictures of Natalee in his face.
He used that tale as part of the story , he told Chilean LE. We all were wondering when that phone call occurred. Prior or after Stephany's brutal murder.
 
  • #410
Which picture shows her in the fetal position? I thought they said she was stretched out. And the pictures I have seen she is laying along the wall next to the bed. Will go back and look. So many different accounts.

Another question: if this had happened in the U.S. would they release the crime scene photos? Trying to remember if I have ever seen this before.tia
Florida has the Sunshine Law under which a lot of evidence comes to light, however crime scene photos usually are reserved for trial so as not to taint the potential jury pool. MOO
 
  • #411
My guess on the blood in the hallway is from his shoes, I imagine after walking thru that horrific crime scene he had to have had blood all over his shoes, I can see his cleaning being pulling the sheets off the bed and cleaning the floor would amount to him throwing the sheets on the floor and scooting them around with his feet, I certainly don't see him getting on his hands and knees doing any real cleaning...So I would imagine that he had blood all over the hallway from his shoes.
 
  • #412
Which picture shows her in the fetal position? I thought they said she was stretched out. And the pictures I have seen she is laying along the wall next to the bed. Will go back and look. So many different accounts.

Another question: if this had happened in the U.S. would they release the crime scene photos? Trying to remember if I have ever seen this before.tia

I haven't seen CS photos released prior to a trial here in the US. I don't know what the Peruvian standard is though. There was discussion in one of the other threads earlier in this case about the differences in cultures and how Latin countries tend to show more on TV about crimes (even to include the victim before removing them to the morgue).

I'm not suprised to see these. But then again, I lived on the border of the US and used to watch Mexican TV stations and have also watched Galavision and other channels for years.

In fact, during that converstation I mentioned above, those involved anticipated the release of the actual CS photos. IMHO the American media station that has these probably has all of them, but given that we (USA) aren't used to seeing victims as such, are not going to publish them at this moment. KWIM? All JMHO.
 
  • #413
Thats what I think, not laid OVER her as Joran stated, but On her ...
probably prior to the killing.

That's what it looks like in Pic #20. The shirt seems to be around her back with her t-shirt showing beneath the shirt on her front.
 
  • #414
Hate to bring this up but the tech(s) arent wearing latex gloves. That's a basis for challenging
evidence in Court ... especially mtdna, dna, or any biological evidence lawyer could claim contamination ...

I see them wearing latex gloves in each picture where they are holding something etc.
 
  • #415
FWIW, the pic of Stephany's foot that shows the greenish bruising (healing bruises) shows bruises exactly in the same spot that my youngest daughter always has bruising on her feet from practicing footwork. Soccer. Another member brought that up but I can't remember who, I agree with that poster that it's a distinct possibility. JMHO.
 
  • #416
  • #417
Quote from md89's translation of AVDS interview

Paul and Anita both tried to contact Natalees parents. It was very difficult to reach Beth Holloway because of the media. She could only imagine what Beth was going through. She felt horrible for her. Would have loved to hug her. Both parents (Paul and Anita) said that if Joran or one of his friends had done something they would do anything to get it out of him.

I thought that according to Beth's account, she was at Joran's house with a detective speaking with him, one of the Kalpoe brothers and Paul the day after NH disappeared. She also claimed that Paul cut off the conversation when Joran started talking to them about the evening before. Doesn't sound like a man trying to get the truth out of his son IMO.

Was I mistaken about this?
 
  • #418
Quote from md89's translation of AVDS interview



I thought that according to Beth's account, she was at Joran's house with a detective speaking with him, one of the Kalpoe brothers and Paul the day after NH disappeared. She also claimed that Paul cut off the conversation when Joran started talking to them about the evening before. Doesn't sound like a man trying to get the truth out of his son IMO.

Was I mistaken about this?

I remember seeing Beth, Jud, and others at the house that morning talking with Joran's father. But, also Beth and Greta did an interview with them at their house. I am not sure what date that was.
 
  • #419
Florida has the Sunshine Law under which a lot of evidence comes to light, however crime scene photos usually are reserved for trial so as not to taint the potential jury pool. MOO

Good point Panthera. May I add also that JVDS won't be getting a trial by Jury in Peru. Their system is set up much different than ours. I know you aleady know that just adding that for our guests who may have missed that on another thread.
 
  • #420
Florida has the Sunshine Law under which a lot of evidence comes to light, however crime scene photos usually are reserved for trial so as not to taint the potential jury pool. MOO

I believe it also has something to do with preserving the dignity of the deceased here in the US as well. I'll see if I can dig something up about that as well.
 
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