Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #18

[hollyblue]

My guess is that Joran thinks if people have an inkling of hope that he holds the key to the truth, people will not killl him. He's dangled that carrot for five years regarding NH. :banghead: IMO his bluff has run its course.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Exactly. Natalee's "story" was his money maker...now it's his lifeline....as seen in his eyes. IMO.

 

[texaslb218]

No, I meant concurrent. I hope he's tried in all countries or areas in parallel with one another (at the same time or close to the same time), therefore he would serve consecutive sentences. In other words, he can be tried "concurrent" in the US for the wire fraud, in Aruba for Natalee's murder, & in Peru for Steph's murder (or anything else that pops up that he's involved in) all at the same time. I think this would be better in getting the most out of his sentencing, instead of making Natalee's family way for him to finish his sentence in Peru, then be shipped back to Aruba to be tried there & serve his sentence, then after that come to the US for the wire fraud charges...kwim? If the trials aren't concurrent, vicxtims families may have to wait and it may not be as "raw" as it is now, meaning the notoriety would die down...which is what I don;t want to happen. I want him to have the strictest longest sentence he could possibly get.

gotcha! Thanks!

 

[Patty G]

Patty G, the link that you were asking for is what I just supplied in this post. I'm just now coming to this thread, so I didn;t see that another poster copied the whole thing already. At least we have the link now, though. I'm trying to find the Dutch TV link now...

Thank you. I am looking for the info to back up what has been posted. Right now we have what was on Dutch TV without a video or article in the paper.

 

[sandangel]

The Peruvia report said he was not a psychopath. I thought that strange. One thing JC read from the report was that Joran liked to do things that elicited excitement and he was always looking for the next thing to do that.

I had a friend that was just like that. He would do unbelievable things for excitement. Always trying to get in trouble or cause horrendous problems. He was a burgular, liar, and a bully always picking fights.

He was diagnosed as being bi-polar and manic depressive. This is one thing I have not heard that Joran could possibly have. My friend was on medication but went of off it all the time. He thought he could self medicate using pot and crack.

He also hallucinated. Dead now. Found in a field with both his hands cut off.

Since the murder of Stephany I have heard on the news on numerous occasions discussing Joran, whether he is a sociopath or psychopath. Given the meaning of both, I do not believe that Joran is a psychopath because he is not organized in his crimes and he does not plan in great detail when he decides to murder. He appears to fit more as a sociopath.

I by no means am an expert on this, I am just going by discussions I have heard and material I have read regarding these 2 disorders. Besides that, I do not believe one is less severe/worse than the other. They are both horrible!

 

[JBean]

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5322523#post5322523"]Ramirez -Van der Sloot Q&A **NO DISCUSSION** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Kat]

Since the murder of Stephany I have heard on the news on numerous occasions discussing Joran, whether he is a sociopath or psychopath. Given the meaning of both, I do not believe that Joran is a psychopath because he is not organized in his crimes and he does not plan in great detail when he decides to murder. He appears to fit more as a sociopath.

I by no means am an expert on this, I am just going by discussions I have heard and material I have read regarding these 2 disorders. Besides that, I do not believe one is less severe/worse than the other. They are both horrible!

I am reading a book right now (not connected to this case or JVDS) and it's very interesting. It's about Borderline PD, male and females that have been diagnosed.

I don't know what JVDS diagnosis would be, could be a number of things, a number of a combination of things.

FWIW, what I've read thus far, it's being stated that Borderlines can be just as dangerous if not more than those that have been diagnosed with APSD.

Just wanted to throw that into the ring LOL. It's an interesting disorder, for anyone that wants to have a look later on. I, by no means, would apply that to JVDS because 1. I do not have a formal education in psychology. 2. I don't think even a trained forensic psychologist can diagnosis someone without first having interviewed them. JMHO. But wanted to share

 

[janetgk]

Hey guys...I came across something that I thought was interesting. It's from Ainta's (VDS) Dutch TV Interview. This link is from insession but I'm off to find some other link. I only wanted to quick post this bc it shows she's actually human, & if true, she's probably feeling pretty empty right about now.

Mods: If you need to remove the link, please read it first. It's very interesting. I'm trying to find a Dutch TV link that has the actual translated interview in full.

Thank you to koawally for the indepth recap.
In Session Message Boards - View Single Post - Tuesday - June 22 - PM

Patty G, the link that you were asking for is what I just supplied in this post. I'm just now coming to this thread, so I didn;t see that another poster copied the whole thing already. At least we have the link now, though. I'm trying to find the Dutch TV link now...

Believe Insession Kowally took it from here Md89 #356 P.15 who said he translated it hurriedly from the TV.

 

[mck16]

Tip from Tae Kwon Do :

The elbow is the strongest point on your body to use for defense.

I just got the above in an email totally unrelated to the case, but speaks to the question as to did Joran have any kind of martial arts training. I thought it was an interesting fact. He is 6'5 and probably weighs a ton. She was so tiny.jmo

 

[Chanler]

Psychological evaluations in cases like this are generally self-serving media concoctions that are usually done long distance. The speculations that I have seen about Joran fit that description.

 

[Danie]

Wow, that step by step video is great! Funny when he discovered the camera. He must have thought where's Daddy NOW!!

Just saw Joran says Women want to marry him & have his baby. I lost my appetite, LOL!!! And loved when Mike brooks said he should've been a screen writer, lies & stories one after the other.

 

[Danie]

You all don't forget tomorrow night on National Geographic ~ World's worst prisons ~ the one Joran may be going to in Peru.

 

[panthera]

Nancy's on!

Bombshell tonight ~ Joran's psych evaluation, is capable of murder

Ex-girlfriend breaks her silence

Joran: "I was tricked into confession"

Anita breaks her silence, claiming he was going to enter a psych ward

 

[Danie]

Exactly, the evidence is so overwhelming that even she can't dispute it.

Makes me think about how she refuses to belive he killed NH, when the Dad was in on the aftermath. Mom can't be that ignorant.

 

[passionflower]

When will we get a forum for all of this???? to separate:
Stephany. Arrest. Jail. Future hearings etc

 

[Salem]

A new thread has been created for your questions. Remember all TOS apply! You can find the thread here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107465"]Ramirez -Van der Sloot Q&A **NO DISCUSSION** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Salem

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Respectfully snipped: Woe.be.gone

Will you please answer Cottages questions in the post above? It's not fair to keep pressing on with the 'Joran was framed theory' before answering some simple questions -

Not Unreals, but I could give you a reason for everything questioned by Cottages and others in the "conspiracy theory", but I think it is moot. Just as I feel the whole discussion on this should now be. Ones bringing the issue forward should be willing to give explanations or answer questions by those of us who were willing to discuss this side of a theory says it all to me. Not being snarky, but I think some people are just very analytically minded...which I admire, but spit it out if you want to go there. Saying I don't want to tell what I think ends the discussion. KWIM? JMO

Huh? I don't get this post. Is it directed at me? My post is basically asking for what you are saying that is for the conspiracy theorists to explain/answer the non conspiracy theorists questions for the sake of logic.

 

[Kat]

Psychological evaluations in cases like this are generally self-serving media concoctions that are usually done long distance. The speculations that I have seen about Joran fit that description.

I agree Chanler with your post.

I want to jump off and share a personal opinion but it's not directed at you

I've seen it discussed (not on this thread but elsewhere on WS) multiple times that some of the TH's always diagnose many of the perpetrators of certian crimes as having a diagnosis of ASPD. (armchair diagnosis, TH diagnosis, not formal ones).

It is very commonplace here on this site to actually see many that are later diagnosed formally with ASPD (and secondary PD traits) because of the very nature of this site . We are discussing people that brutalize, torture and murder others .

However, IMHO---it's not enough that we can assume that it's a duck, because it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck---etc. In these cases sure it's a duck---duck implying a very disordered personality. But what kind of duck is it? LOL. That's like saying all ducks are the same---KWIM? Sure we can clearly observe another human and see severe dysfuction in the way they walk and talk and act sometimes. But I like to get down to the brass tacks and always look forward to reading psych evals that give possible diagnosis.

Just thoughts on that topic and how they might apply to JVDS. He's a duck alright LOL. JK.

 

[panthera]

NG on Joran's psych evaluation: has no patience, provokes violence against women, no respect for the opposite sex, capable of murder

Stephany's body in major state of decomp; difficult to perform autopsy. Crainial fracture, significant head injuries.

Jean has a copy of the local newspaper "Trome" where it says Joran is making a mockery of the Peruvian justice system. She's talking about Stephany's injuries; much worse than imagined; hemorrhage to the brain from the cranial fracture, lesions to her neck.

Ellie has crime scene photos of Stephany's hands, feet, shoes, sheet on the floor with large bloodstain. Another reporter in Peru is saying photos are consistent with what Joran said happened.

Rupa reporting about Joran's statements to Dutch media, saying he was lured to Peru (by FBI), Elton Garcia arranged and paid for everything for him.

commercial break

 

[epiphany]

NGS:

JeanC Live:

right now the psych is the most important document in the case
psych analysis: at time of evaluation, does not show psychopathology
traits of anti-social relationships
can establish superficial social relationships

 

[KR2tonenow]

NG on Joran's psych evaluation: has no patience, provokes violence against women, no respect for the opposite sex, capable of murder

Stephany's body in major state of decomp; difficult to perform autopsy. Crainial fracture, significant head injuries.

Jean has a copy of the local newspaper "Trome" where it says Joran is making a mockery of the Peruvian justice system. She's talking about Stephany's injuries; much worse than imagined; hemorrhage to the brain from the cranial fracture, lesions to her neck.

Ellie has crime scene photos of Stephany's hands, feet, shoes, sheet on the floor with large bloodstain. Another reporter in Peru is saying photos are consistent with what Joran said happened.

Rupa reporting about Joran's statements to Dutch media, saying he was lured to Peru (by FBI), Elton Garcia arranged and paid for everything for him.

commercial break

Sorry, I missed that. Elton Garcia paid for the trip to Peru? and now the FBI was stalking JVDS? OK, I have to admit I'd like to know more about this Mr. Garcia. He is the one that introduced Stephany to JVDS.