GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

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  • #861
I'm curious what type of killer he will be termed. A spree killer? Can't be serial because there's a resting time between serial murders, not a great number at once. Maybe an opportunistic killer?
 
  • #862
For all of these reasons, I suspect he possibly wasn't even intending to kill anyone at all, not even one. Honestly!

I think that maybe he'd become fixated, obsessed, with stalking and surveillance - looking through the window and creeping around. Maybe he wanted to enter, hot prowl MM if she were fast asleep, maybe take photos, or maybe gag her, or KO her with some sort of gas or injection, hold her at knife point and do some weird horrid stuff that wouldn't leave any fibres or evidence. A perverse sexual drive and control maybe being the motivation, also maybe to create a puzzle.

If he thought there was going to be a large scale hunt for him, he'd not have bought a Kabar online, not left the house with his own mobile phone, he could have got a knife anywhere for cash, a second 'burner' phone, he'd have gone so far in a vehicle or used a motorbike and parked up discretely covering the rest on foot. The actual crime speaks to having no planning except some sort of coverall suit. The lack of any other 'cover up' leans into this outcome not being the original plan at all.

I don't mean to cause any offence in saying this. JMO MOO
I've always maintained that, although he may be intelligent, he's not smart.
 
  • #863
Sorry to be blunt.

But if someone misses red flags in one's own field of career,
then.... ummm....
whatever book on this particular subject/perp would not interest me at all.

Only MY Opinion
Because a professor didn't think her student was a future murderer? That's very unfair and uncalled for. She did explain people's high level of interest in the subject it's unusual, and often makes for good LE, FBI, etc.
 
  • #864
I'm curious what type of killer he will be termed. A spree killer? Can't be serial because there's a resting time between serial murders, not a great number at once. Maybe an opportunistic killer?

A mass murderer? 🤔
 
  • #865
If Ramsland plans to write an entire book on BK, she’ll have to get his consent to write anything about his education records, but she’ll likely have to interview him (and others who know him), as well. As others have said, her relationship with BK was formal, not like the intimate friendship Ann Rule had with Ted Bundy.

IMO
Did Ramsland say she plans on writing a book or everyone speculating? Thanks.
 
  • #866
  • #867
I work for a college in an office that is heavily focused on FERPA (student privacy rights). Based on my experience, I'm suspicious on how freely she's discussing his time as a student. It makes me seriously think she obtained a signed consent form to release his information and discuss his information.
I agree. We have to have signed releases to talk to student's parents, let alone the media. I would never talk about a student's work publicly.
 
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  • #868
If Ramsland plans to write an entire book on BK, she’ll have to get his consent to write anything about his education records, but she’ll likely have to interview him (and others who know him), as well. As others have said, her relationship with BK was formal, not like the intimate friendship Ann Rule had with Ted Bundy.

IMO
I guess I don't see her as needing to discuss his education records since that may not be particularly interesting. The interesting part is her own interactions with him and recollection of him in the classroom. But after this many years, her memory may be dim on specifics.
 
  • #869
Sorry to be blunt.

But if someone misses red flags in one's own field of career,
then.... ummm....
whatever book on this particular subject/perp would not interest me at all.

Only MY Opinion
I'll be blunt as well, Dotta. I feel the same way. And it's not just that she "misses" what's going on in her classes, but that in general, her books are compilations of other people's studies, other people's books, and on remarkably similar topics. Often sensationalized, such as "Vampire Murders in America" (or something like that). Yes, there are a number of academically documented cases of people drinking others' blood before or after murdering them; of people delusionally believing they're vampires and then killing someone, etc.

Her psychologically oriented studies (early work like Mind of a Serial Killer) provide some insights, but again, use standard case studies and others' psychological insights as well. The sheer volume of her work, especially on the "Vampire" side of things, along with the lurid cover graphics on some of her popular works put me off.

Her first publication appears to be of her doctoral dissertation "Mind of a Serial Killer" and it is not often cited as an academic source, because it is a thought piece on just one serial killer and that serial killer lived in the prior century (Jack the Ripper). She was honing her writing skills, but it doesn't appear to me that she has done much face-to-face research with real humans. She only met with Rader a couple of times and said that wasn't working for her so she spoke to him by letter and by phone. I get that.

I guess I'm trying to write a small "apologia' for her in regards to Bryan Kohberger. It takes clinical experience (therapeutic or scientific observation) and being up close and personal with people to get a sense of who they are. I think we all know that. He was taking classes where he sat and listened to her in larger classrooms and then wrote good papers (much like her own education). She avoids any use of standard psychiatric or psychological diagnostic techniques (but uses others' papers with data on those topics). She did carve out a new approach to study what I would call serial killer behavior rather than "mind."

I will reference psychiatrist and professor Donald Lunde, who went and sat with the serial killers he wrote about. Harrowing research to be sure. His "Murder and Madness" is still the gold standard, IMO.
 
  • #870
Maybe, although I have always thought of mass murders as larger than four victims.

According to Wikipedia:

"Mass murder
is the violent crime of killing a number of people, typically simultaneously or over a relatively short period of time and in close geographic proximity.

A mass murder typically occurs in a single location
where one or more persons kill
several others.

In the United States, Congress defined mass murders as the killing of

three or more persons

during an event with no 'cooling-off period' between the homicides."

 
  • #871
Maybe, although I have always thought of mass murders as larger than four victims.
From Wikipedia: "In the United States, Congress defined mass murders as the killing of three or more persons during an event with no 'cooling-off period' between the homicides."

Mass shooting, on the other hand, varies In definition from 3-5 victims--CNN uses 4 people killed or injured; Mother Jones, which has a mass shooting database uses 3 people killed; the FBI uses 4 or more killed, excluding the perpetrator.
 
  • #872
According to Wikipedia:

"Mass murder
is the violent crime of killing a number of people, typically simultaneously or over a relatively short period of time and in close geographic proximity.

A mass murder typically occurs in a single location
where one or more persons kill
several others.

In the United States, Congress defined mass murders as the killing of

three or more persons

during an event with no 'cooling-off period' between the homicides."

Then mass it is.
 
  • #873
I guess I don't see her as needing to discuss his education records since that may not be particularly interesting. The interesting part is her own interactions with him and recollection of him in the classroom. But after this many years, her memory may be dim on specifics.
Did Ramsland say she plans on writing a book or everyone speculating? Thanks.

During her NewsNation interview with Brian Entin the day after the plea deal was announced, Dr. Ramsland said she would like to study BK if he is willing to let her. The video of the interview is linked on the following page (start at 9:33 to hear her speak about her desire to work with BK in the future):

Bryan Kohberger’s former professor wonders if serial killer classes inspired him

This July 2 New York Post article recaps Dr. Ramsland’s NewsNation interview:

The professor, who has published 73 books and authored over 2,500 articles, said she’d be willing to interview Kohberger in a bid to help identify warning signs, “developmental trajectories” and other triggers.
“I want to understand how he was able to completely fool me,” Ramsland said.

“If he wanted to do that, I know he has the intellectual capacity to do it, to be self-reflective and think about how his life came to this,” she added.
BBM

as does this Daily Mail article from the same day:

Despite her disgust, Ramsland - who wrote the literal book on BTK killer, Confession of a Serial Killer: The Untold Story of Dennis Rader, the BTK Killer - admits she's interested in potentially studying Kohberger.

'This is my work. If he wanted to do that, I would,' she said, adding that the study would be to try and learn 'developmental trajectories' and 'red flags' so killers can be identified faster.
'I would definitely do it if he were willing. It would be hard but I think because I have so much material for him, I have questions for him that I think nobody but me could
BBM
 
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  • #874
I’ll bet that @SteveP is still handsome and brilliant, even though he’s outed us oldsters.

I remember playing with Wooly Willy, but it annoys me when a commercial product misspells something. “Wiskers” instead of “Whiskers.”

Now get off my lawn. 😀

View attachment 600402
Very odd; the vintage Woolies have it spelled correctly...

Wasn't there another face, also? I seem to remember a second similar toy? IT WAS SO LONG AGO hee hee.
 
  • #875
Very odd; the vintage Woolies have it spelled correctly...

Wasn't there another face, also? I seem to remember a second similar toy? IT WAS SO LONG AGO hee hee.
The only other drawing toy I can remember from all those DECADES ago is Etch A Sketch.

That would be useless in trying to draw eyebrows because it frustratingly only drew horizontal and vertical lines.

I don’t think there is any gadget in the universe capable of making BK appear harmless. It oozes out of him, IMO.
 
  • #876
Very odd; the vintage Woolies have it spelled correctly...

Wasn't there another face, also? I seem to remember a second similar toy? IT WAS SO LONG AGO hee hee.
There was Wooly Billy. More of a normal face. And a woman's face. Harriet? Something like that. ETA: For hairstyles.
 
  • #877
Sorry to be blunt.

But if someone misses red flags in one's own field of career,
then.... ummm....
whatever book on this particular subject/perp would not interest me at all.

Only MY Opinion
How many instances are there of doctors and specialists missing an illness in a patient?

People, even those who are the best in their fields aren't mind readers or soothsayers. Unfortunately, one can have all of the knowledge, experience and education but still mistakes can and do happen 😞

Do we even know what the actual extent of creep face and KR's educational relationship was? Like I remember reading bits but cannot recall properly. Were the lectures in person or over zoom? Were they all 121 or group settings? I gather she will have looked over work of his maybe, but to what extent? I'm asking as I'm thinking if Katherine was his professor and he was one in a class of a dozen that she gave lectures to a couple years prior to the night of the crime, would she have remembered his name IF he hasn't have done this and ended up in the media y'know? Maybe enough to say oh yah I remember he was in my class, I dunno. She was one of a bunch of lecturers on that course so wasn't his primary professor (like his tutor) right?
If it's what I think is likely and he was just one in a class of many classes she taught and she spent a very small amount of time conversing 121 with him, if at all, then even with a 6th sense - how could she see what he was hiding deep under his people suit?

I dunno, I'm half asleeps and babbling
 
  • #878
How many instances are there of doctors and specialists missing an illness in a patient?

People, even those who are the best in their fields aren't mind readers or soothsayers. Unfortunately, one can have all of the knowledge, experience and education but still mistakes can and do happen 😞

Do we even know what the actual extent of creep face and KR's educational relationship was? Like I remember reading bits but cannot recall properly. Were the lectures in person or over zoom? Were they all 121 or group settings? I gather she will have looked over work of his maybe, but to what extent? I'm asking as I'm thinking if Katherine was his professor and he was one in a class of a dozen that she gave lectures to a couple years prior to the night of the crime, would she have remembered his name IF he hasn't have done this and ended up in the media y'know? Maybe enough to say oh yah I remember he was in my class, I dunno. She was one of a bunch of lecturers on that course so wasn't his primary professor (like his tutor) right?
If it's what I think is likely and he was just one in a class of many classes she taught and she spent a very small amount of time conversing 121 with him, if at all, then even with a 6th sense - how could she see what he was hiding deep under his people suit?

I dunno, I'm half asleeps and babbling
She said in her NewsNation interview that she was his academic advisor when he joined the forensics track at DeSales (in the fall of 2018). She taught him four courses:

Undergraduate:
  1. Introduction to Forensic Pasychology
  2. Psychological Sleuthing (a death investigations class)
  3. Dangerous Minds (the psychology of antisocial behavior)
Graduate: Behavioral Criminology

Please see my recent posts about Ramsland for more details.
 
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  • #879
During her NewsNation interview with Brian Entin the day after the plea deal was announced, Dr. Ramsland said she would like to study BK if he is willing to let her. The video of the interview is linked on the following page (start at 9:33 to hear her speak about her desire to work with BK in the future):

Bryan Kohberger’s former professor wonders if serial killer classes inspired him

This July 2 New York Post article recaps Dr. Ramsland’s NewsNation interview:



BBM

as does this Daily Mail article from the same day:



BBM

Quote from the post above:

"Bryan Kohberger’s former professor wonders if serial killer classes inspired him."

I don't think so.

IMO
He was drawn to these particular studies because of his intense interest/obsession of the subject matter.

"Drawn as a bee to honey"
as we say in my country.

The murders were IMO
the apogeum/culmination his twisted mind led to through his life.

JMO
 
  • #880
Katherine Ramsland’s PhD is in philosophy, not criminal justice, though she has an impressive collection of lower degrees:

View attachment 600430
Source

I think of Ramsland as primarily a teacher and a writer—a popularizer—of a field she became intrigued by fairly late in her career—the forensic psychology of serious offenders like serial and mass murderers (she earned her MA in forensic psychology 16 years after completing her PhD).

She’s even written books about the supernatural—vampires, witches, ghosts, anything that delve into human and human-adjacent darkness.

I wouldn’t expect Ramsland, a gifted teacher, to look out for psychological pathology in her own students. Of course she looked out for such pathology in her research subjects like Dennis Rader (BTK). One could argue, though, that she should have look out for red flags in her students since she was aware that some might take her courses to learn to be a better criminal.

The cops in my extended family, unlike Katherine Ramsland, are pragmatic, non-intellectual (though intelligent), and very suspicious of everyone. They would not last long in their careers without this cynical outlook—it keeps them alive.

I expect that a criminal justice prof who had a prior or concurrent career in law enforcement would easily see red flags in BK’s behavior. But Katherine Ramsland saw none. Remember that BK wanted something from Ramsland, so he manipulated her, just as he did his other female criminal justice professor at DeSales, Dr. Michelle Bolger.

IMO, Katherine Ramsland is intrigued by BK because she was duped by him. I fully expect her own desire to figure out how he did this will force her to write about him, regardless of any wish she may harbor for a perhaps final hurrah in her own publishing career.

And don’t forget that at least one female cop was seemingly duped by BK. He acted in a polite and curious (though to many, annoying) manner toward the officer who pulled him over for moving into the intersection while attempting to make an unprotected left turn. Of course, we know BK was lying through his teeth about the non-existence of crosswalks back home in Albrightsville, but the officer didn’t seem alarmed by his behavior or demeanor and did not ticket him. I expect she became far much more suspicious of polite young men after BK was arrested.

Both Katherine Ramsland and Michelle Bolger were fooled by BK, but that’s because they saw him as a student, not a perp they were studying. Don’t mistake for one minute what Ramsland will be fooled again by BK now that she knows what he has done.

Unlike cynical, street-weary cops, most of us take people at face value. The women who were afraid of BK or noticed he was “off” are the women he wanted to frighten or intimidate. BK knew how to weasel into the affection or regard of the women who could help him, but now they know his number, just like the rest of us.

IMO
Sorry I can't figure out how to double quote thingy. I read your last comment and went back as I was a page behind when I posted.

Totally agree. KR has numerous expertise and is very very good at what she does (teaching). If (I believe she will and can't blame her tbh) she does write on BK for a book or for any academic reasons, he will not be able to hide behind the mask anymore.

Personally, I don't think she is fretting so much about what she MISSED during her time associated with BK, I think what's itching at her is what she TAUGHT him. Imagine, like imagine how that would feel. I believe that's what her writings will focus on and likely in future, change the way she teaches.

Edited because I've currently got eyes all aboogly 😑
 
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