GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #115

[Megnut]

Imagine the grave disrepect knowing one is a perfect specimen and uncanny genius yet no one properly reveres you for it.

Perpetually frustrated by the incompetence and ignorance of those around him.

Lonely on the top of one's pedestal.

Man, is he full of himself.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don't think he had it, that's why. I think at the point he was posting about it, he was starting to recognize he was having pycho-socio-something-tendencies and trying to assign a syndrome to it other than there being something wrong with his precious, genius brain. moo

Right, or just straight up lying for the attention and to engage the chat group with his brilliance. This murderer is a master manipulator he could have been playing the con game all along.

I don't believe anything he has said about his life and we know he's told many lies to try and impress others.

JMO

 

[Teche]

Mail exclusive with Ramsland


De Sales' Dr Kathleen Ramsland is trial ballooning her plan to interview him and do a book on him, imo

Personally I'd prefer it if Ramsland got De Sales to tell us about his behavior record at De Sales 2018-2022 ( Yes, ofc I don't think that will realistically happen, as previously posted)
IMO this guy didn't suddenly start exhibiting these behaviors at age 28 for just 5months



New TV series klaxon ( Henley TV show airs today)

'Dr Katherine Ramsland spoke to the Daily Mail ahead of the release of her new documentary, The Serial Killer's Apprentice, which delves into the mind and motives of infamous mass murderer Elmer Wayne Henley Jr.

I taught Bryan Kohberger about killers, here's why he must be studied

Bryan Kohberger's criminology professor has said she is 'horrified' that one of her former students went on a stabbing rampage that shocked the nation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Places herself in the limelight.

 

[indicolite22]

On the second para yes I do think he's also been radicalized post 2010 but this is based on the new BK statements in the WSU bundle.
For me, he just doesn't seem to be the same person he was on the TapaTalks. ( More resentful, bitter and angry. )

We know he'd spent the intervening ten years living a fairly solitary but very online life. I'd happily put a wager on FBI having found he'd previously been a member of gamer chats and Incel forums. (R/eddit's dedicated forums were only banned in the late 2010s.) In the WSU docs he references ideas which were also prevalent there - eugenics/ who doesn't deserve to procreate, misanthropy, a Professor is unable to grade me accurately because she's foreign etc etc. (BTW I don't think we'll ever see the full FBI digital investigation, just as the Cellebrite couple recently explained so this hunch can't be proved )

Anyway, load the impact of thos forums on top of all of his pre-existing difficulties and challenges from childhood and teens -including something like ASPD as you suggest - and increasingly a double-life centered on specific p/orn & compulsions for hard-core violence & SK material. A catastrophic mix.

The WSU dump, plus the Cellebrite stuff explains so much. Prior to these and for so long he was viewed as an enigma, as unfathomable. Now I do feel many of the ' But why did he do it?' type questions have now been resolved, for me.


Anyway have a listen to this Levy show if you get chance, see what you make of it. Levy covers a handful of WSU documents we've already discussed on WS but she adds extra commentary


the very calculating Mr Kohberger
18mins. Perhaps BK was considering a kind of counter-attack - wrt another male member of staff - in the event that BK was disciplined for sexual harassment. (Kinda blackmail on WSU CJ Dept)

At 28 minutes
Angenette Levy picks up on something this WSU student noticed. After the 1122 murders, when everybody is discussing them he doesn't participate but once the students start linking them to Bundy's Chi Omega murders, she speculates that he feels more comfortable and wants to get off on talking about those with her instead


and at 36mins Levy speculates on his questioning a WSU grad he likes- where do you live and what kind of ( guard) dog do you have?
He also told this woman ' whoever did the murders must have been pretty good' and discussed why the timing was right
People in the office thought he ' might be a possible future rapist' and discuss whether he might be an incel

Included is a clip of Ann Taylor speaking in a pre-trial hearing about the hundred hours of WSU interviews and the ' unkind things' and WSU said about him, ' mean' comments' . She attempted to mischaracterize the WSU testimony as ableist & autism-related. Prosecutor interjected, we're not using them at penalty phase anyway because we have evidence which is far more aggravating.

I think I heard it also on Angenette Levy's podcast that KB once speculated in class (or among colleagues) that the Moscow murders were perhaps a "one and done" type of crime.

The Cellebrite couple told Brian Entin that KB often took photos of his surroundings and sent them to his parents. He also took a lot of selfies but never sent them to anyone or posted them anywhere.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think I heard it also on Angenette Levy's podcast that KB once speculated in class (or among colleagues) that the Moscow murders were perhaps a "one and done" type of crime.

The Cellebrite couple told Brian Entin that KB often took photos of his surroundings and sent them to his parents. He also took a lot of selfies but never sent them to anyone or posted them anywhere.

Yes that stood out. It's the same female student ( where do you live & which dog) I wondered if he was trying to throw them off because she'd said something like -could be a SK.

Another thing stood out in the documents, although it's not in her show. In the WSU dump the interviewees reference a potluck they held. It was just before winter break and he turned up wearing all black, including black gloves. IDK the exact date but if he's so compulsive and voyeurism is an engrained pattern developed over years in PA, maybe he felt the urge to start prowling again in December ??

 

[Chloegirl]

Imagine the grave disrepect knowing one is a perfect specimen and uncanny genius yet no one properly reveres you for it.

Perpetually frustrated by the incompetence and ignorance of those around him.

Lonely on the top of one's pedestal.

Man, is he full of himself.

JMO

I have to comment on this. Others cannot procreate? His looks have been distracting from the get-go, and I do not mean in a good way. Proportions of his body are off, and I do not want to be unkind or judgmental.

I have seen AI generated photos and immediately knew it was that because it was so flushed out, regular, there were no spaced out looking staring eyes, odd lumbering stance, and lurchy movements. How can he not know what he looks like, how he comes across, how inept he is in society? That is of course rhetorical. JMOO

 

[Warwick7]

re: BK's phone call habits with his parents BEFORE the crimes

I know I've seen more detailed, better articles than this one with the experts from Cellebrite, but this one will do to start. They looked at BK's phone habits prior to the murders to establish his baseline habits once he had moved to WA in order to see if/how they changed leading up to, during, and after the murders.

Bryan Kohberger Called His Mother After Idaho Murders — Once When He Got Home and Again While Driving Back to Crime Scene (Exclusive)

The digital forensics team who worked on the Bryan Kohberger case tells PEOPLE that he spent over three hours on the phone with his mother after killing four University of Idaho college students

people.com

Kohberger would mostly speak to his parents, says Barnhart, who adds that Kohberger would start calling his mother as early as 4 a.m. some days.

This information was all gathered from the Samsung Galaxy phone Kohberger owned and had purchased in June, around the same time he moved to Washington from Pennsylvania.

and

He had his parents saved as "Mother" and "Father" in his phone, says Barnhart, and would often call his mother first followed immediately after by his father if he did not get an answer.

"And he would go back and forth texting: 'Father, why did mother not respond? Why is she not answering the phone?" Barnhart says.

Expert who was to testify at Kohberger trial says ‘he prepared’ for Idaho murders

Before the DNA, before the arrest, before his name was ever made public, Bryan Kohberger was already preparing to kill. Two digital forensics experts tell Andrea Cavallier what they discovered by digging through his phone

www.the-independent.com

“Starting at 6:13 a.m. the morning after the murders, he’s calling and texting his mom and dad nonstop,” Heather said. “It was incessant. But it was also one of the only things he did that matched his normal behavior.”

That is separate from his phone calls on Nov 13

**************

BK's calls on Nov 13 (they appear to be listed as what time it was in WA not in PA (summarized from same articles):

6:13 a.m: BK called mom, she didn't answer
6:14 a.m. BK called dad--don't know if answered
proceeds to call and text both several times
Unknown time that a.m.: mom finally answers, call lasts 36 min
8:03 a.m. BK calls mom--call lasts 54 minutes (call ends right before his phone pings on cell tower near the crime scene
9:00 a.m. BK calls mom again, call lasts 9 min
4:05 p.m. BK calls mom again, call lasts 2 min
5:53 p.m. BK calls mom for last time that day, call lasts 96 minutes

total time on phone with mom that day: 3 hr 17 min

Wasn't his phone shut off for hours 5:30pm to 8:30pm?

 

[gremlin444]

Has anyone seen anything in all the ISP documents (or any others) or any interviews, etc, about the fellow female CJ grad student we learned about in the Dateline episode?

We had heard about her vaguely before in regards of her having an apartment break in, being scared, and asking BK to install a security camera for her.

Then in the Dateline episode they gave her name (SO NOT COOL), and said she shared an office with him. Said she had a crush on him (AGAIN, NOT COOL, UNLESS THEY INTERVIEWED HER AND SHE GAVE PERMISSION). They said the night she discovered the break in (burnt cake moved from kitchen counter, bathroom toiletries moved around), she called BK and asked to stay at his apt (she lived in the same complex). She eventually wondered if it has been him who had entered her apartment because that day, she had went to get her apt keys from her office desk drawer (where she always put them) and they were gone. She said she had been out of the office earlier for a bit, but when she discovered the keys were gone, BK wasn't in the office. Later he came in, and she asked him if he had seen the keys--he said no. But they turned up later that day.

The only reason I'm asking is because the ISP dump includes tons of interviews with other grad students in the program and accounts of BK being in their offices and preventing them from leaving/coming in uninvited. It struck me that I didn't recall seeing any interview that could have been with her (and I think he may have even had 1 more office mate).

Maybe ISP is not releasing documents pertaining to her/that incident in order to protect her privacy and that's fine. After all, we've not seen anyone else other than Dateline mention that she was an office mate, supposedly had a crush on him, or seen her name elsewhere. I'm sure there was at least a subset of Probergers after the Dateline episode that tried to find and attack her via email/social media.

I was just wondering if I had missed it in the recent document dumps.

 

[Nichevo]

Regarding the ISP document dump, is that blue stain running down the wall next to the backpack blood cast off ?!? Is that what it looks like with disclosing solution?

 

[cottonweaver]

Has anyone seen anything in all the ISP documents (or any others) or any interviews, etc, about the fellow female CJ grad student we learned about in the Dateline episode?

We had heard about her vaguely before in regards of her having an apartment break in, being scared, and asking BK to install a security camera for her.

Then in the Dateline episode they gave her name (SO NOT COOL), and said she shared an office with him. Said she had a crush on him (AGAIN, NOT COOL, UNLESS THEY INTERVIEWED HER AND SHE GAVE PERMISSION). They said the night she discovered the break in (burnt cake moved from kitchen counter, bathroom toiletries moved around), she called BK and asked to stay at his apt (she lived in the same complex). She eventually wondered if it has been him who had entered her apartment because that day, she had went to get her apt keys from her office desk drawer (where she always put them) and they were gone. She said she had been out of the office earlier for a bit, but when she discovered the keys were gone, BK wasn't in the office. Later he came in, and she asked him if he had seen the keys--he said no. But they turned up later that day.

The only reason I'm asking is because the ISP dump includes tons of interviews with other grad students in the program and accounts of BK being in their offices and preventing them from leaving/coming in uninvited. It struck me that I didn't recall seeing any interview that could have been with her (and I think he may have even had 1 more office mate).

Maybe ISP is not releasing documents pertaining to her/that incident in order to protect her privacy and that's fine. After all, we've not seen anyone else other than Dateline mention that she was an office mate, supposedly had a crush on him, or seen her name elsewhere. I'm sure there was at least a subset of Probergers after the Dateline episode that tried to find and attack her via email/social media.

I was just wondering if I had missed it in the recent document dumps.

I haven't seen it but I haven't been able to go through all of them - there's almost 600 pages!
To save time I found it faster to use a word search on the link which Mass Guy provided - posted on all the first few pages of this WS thread. Maybe try a word search to check?

 

[Dotta]

How can he not know what he looks like, how he comes across, how inept he is in society? That is of course rhetorical. JMOO

The problem is...

His perception of himself is disturbed.
Because his mind is disturbed.

Everybody sees oneself through one's filter.
How you or I see ourselves
differs how others see us.

The extreme example is
how a painfully thin anorexic girl sees herself in a mirror - she sees herself as fat.

And what's more...
No two people see us in the same way.

Because
we all interpret differently what or who we see.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

Bizarre behaviour before the murders...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1957536116459831563

 

[pittsburghgirl]

On the second para yes I do think he's also been radicalized post 2010 but this is based on the new BK statements in the WSU bundle.
For me, he just doesn't seem to be the same person he was on the TapaTalks. ( More resentful, bitter and angry. )

We know he'd spent the intervening ten years living a fairly solitary but very online life. I'd happily put a wager on FBI having found he'd previously been a member of gamer chats and Incel forums. (R/eddit's dedicated forums were only banned in the late 2010s.) In the WSU docs he references ideas which were also prevalent there - eugenics/ who doesn't deserve to procreate, misanthropy, a Professor is unable to grade me accurately because she's foreign etc etc. (BTW I don't think we'll ever see the full FBI digital investigation, just as the Cellebrite couple recently explained so this hunch can't be proved )

Anyway, load the impact of thos forums on top of all of his pre-existing difficulties and challenges from childhood and teens -including something like ASPD as you suggest - and increasingly a double-life centered on specific p/orn & compulsions for hard-core violence & SK material. A catastrophic mix.

The WSU dump, plus the Cellebrite stuff explains so much. Prior to these and for so long he was viewed as an enigma, as unfathomable. Now I do feel many of the ' But why did he do it?' type questions have now been resolved, for me.


Anyway have a listen to this Levy show if you get chance, see what you make of it. Levy covers a handful of WSU documents we've already discussed on WS but she adds extra commentary


the very calculating Mr Kohberger
18mins. Perhaps BK was considering a kind of counter-attack - wrt another male member of staff - in the event that BK was disciplined for sexual harassment. (Kinda blackmail on WSU CJ Dept)

ETA - not a literal, physical attack

At 28 minutes
Angenette Levy picks up on something this WSU student noticed. After the 1122 murders, when everybody is discussing them he doesn't participate but once the students start linking them to Bundy's Chi Omega murders, she speculates that he feels more comfortable and wants to get off on talking about those with her instead


and at 36mins Levy speculates on his questioning a WSU grad he likes- where do you live and what kind of ( guard) dog do you have?
He also told this woman ' whoever did the murders must have been pretty good' and discussed why the timing was right
People in the office thought he ' might be a possible future rapist' and discuss whether he might be an incel

Included is a clip of Ann Taylor speaking in a pre-trial hearing about the hundred hours of WSU interviews and the ' unkind things' that WSU said about him, ' mean' comments' . She attempted to mischaracterize the WSU testimony as ableist & autism-related. Prosecutor interjected, we're not using them at penalty phase anyway because we have evidence which is far more aggravating.

Thanks for sharing this video. What the Cellebrite interviews and WSU documents did for me was correct any notion I had that the now-Inmate had the capacity to be a functioning adult in the academic or working world. The calls to his parents are shocking in terms of his need for not just daily contact but near-constant contact and his expectation that his parents are there on demand for him. I wonder if he talks to them like he talked to the professor who felt "controlled" by BK dropping in to chat late on Friday about essentially nothing. In this case, hour and hours of talk about maybe nothin.

It seems likely to me that commuting to undergrad classes, doing the master's online, and living at home meant his parents were available to him for hours a day; maybe he didn't need as much talk if they were in the same house for hours at a time. I'd love to know about that home. But I imagine his parents thought that WSU was a launch into adulthood and independence but I'm sure the 7-8 am phone calls (PA time, Eastern) destroyed the hope that he would be OK on his own--which explains his dad flying out to Pullman to ride home with him at Christmas. He may have demanded that--or the parents knew he was incapable of doing that trip on his own.

I'd love to hear a top forensic psychologist talk about this.

 

[DizzyB]

Bizarre behaviour before the murders...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1957536116459831563

Mistakes in that article. Combining incidents that were not about the residents of the house with unrelated things.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

Given BK's multiple known mental health diagnoses, in addition to those we don't know about or that were never properly evaluated or diagnosed, as well as the complexity that arises when people have multiple diagnoses, its not possible to attribute specific behaviors to a particular diagnosis.

But some behaviors and behavior patterns do tend to be associated more strongly with some diagnoses than others. As an example, the hand washing until hands are red and raw would commonly be associated with OCD, and less likely with something like Generalized Anxiety Disorder.

IMO, BK's behavior of talking extensively AT people without paying attention to whether they want to keep engaging, can commonly be associated with the autism spectrum. I would speculate that these specific topics BK insisted on talking to everyone in his program about were one of his major special interests, if not the only one.

For people on the ASD spectrum, it is common to have a subject or topic (or more than one) that can become all-encompassing. These can last for short periods of time, or they can last for years or decades. This can be quite positive if the person can channel their special interest into a career.

I'm guessing that this was his family's hope - they saw that BK found a topic he was deeply passionate about, and this motivated him to pursue higher education. If he didn't have all the other problems and issues, he very well could have become an expert in his special interest area, and that could have led to a successful career. Being able to succeed in that area would then lead to other positive experiences such as increased self-esteem, etc.

For some on the autism spectrum, their special interest can become something that they want to talk about any chance they get. It may be difficult for them to resist the urge to talk extensively about their topic as it is so meaningful to them. They may have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours studying and learning about their special interest. They may actually know more about it than others simply due to the fact that they've spent so much time immersing themselves in it.

Conversation can then become a time to "info dump" or "monologue" about the special interest as opposed to an opportunity to connect with another person. A quick google search on terms like "special interests" "monologuing" and "info dumping" will pull up hundreds of articles about this.

Of course, BK is a complex person, and autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is only one element of his overall psyche. Clearly there are more things at play here. Just as we cannot attribute everything about him to ASD, we also cannot remove it entirely from our understanding of him. There are many other elements of his behavior (that are known to us so far) that I believe connect quite strongly to being on the autism spectrum IMO, but I decided to focus on these recent posts about his interactions with people at WSU.

All MOO and a caveat - I hope/think our community here at WS has the wisdom to know that discussing how autism spectrum disorder potentially plays a role in a specific person's actions (in this case, BK's), it doesn't equate to a global judgement/assumption about all people who are on the spectrum.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Haven’t watched this yet but it should be interesting.

Thanks @MassGuy that was very interesting. This couple were contacted by the FBI to assist on the phone data recovery. They said that they were planning on extending an invitation to the families of the victims to meet with them in person and answer any questions they may have about what they found.

I find that deeply touching and respectful. That want to provide them with any answers now that the gag order has been lifted.

They touched on some of the strangest things they found the murderer did on his phone and computer. Like he spent all of Christmas Night into the next day on a SK website. He did use a program called Eraser to delete a lot of his browser history and they explained why large chunks of information could have missing.

I think that is why The Defense and The State (conceded) that they didn't have PROOF of a digital connection between the murderer and Maddie, Kaylee, Zana and Ethan.

JMO

 

[Chloegirl]

Given BK's multiple known mental health diagnoses, in addition to those we don't know about or that were never properly evaluated or diagnosed, as well as the complexity that arises when people have multiple diagnoses, its not possible to attribute specific behaviors to a particular diagnosis.

But some behaviors and behavior patterns do tend to be associated more strongly with some diagnoses than others. As an example, the hand washing until hands are red and raw would commonly be associated with OCD, and less likely with something like Generalized Anxiety Disorder.

IMO, BK's behavior of talking extensively AT people without paying attention to whether they want to keep engaging, can commonly be associated with the autism spectrum. I would speculate that these specific topics BK insisted on talking to everyone in his program about were one of his major special interests, if not the only one.

For people on the ASD spectrum, it is common to have a subject or topic (or more than one) that can become all-encompassing. These can last for short periods of time, or they can last for years or decades. This can be quite positive if the person can channel their special interest into a career.

I'm guessing that this was his family's hope - they saw that BK found a topic he was deeply passionate about, and this motivated him to pursue higher education. If he didn't have all the other problems and issues, he very well could have become an expert in his special interest area, and that could have led to a successful career. Being able to succeed in that area would then lead to other positive experiences such as increased self-esteem, etc.

For some on the autism spectrum, their special interest can become something that they want to talk about any chance they get. It may be difficult for them to resist the urge to talk extensively about their topic as it is so meaningful to them. They may have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours studying and learning about their special interest. They may actually know more about it than others simply due to the fact that they've spent so much time immersing themselves in it.

Conversation can then become a time to "info dump" or "monologue" about the special interest as opposed to an opportunity to connect with another person. A quick google search on terms like "special interests" "monologuing" and "info dumping" will pull up hundreds of articles about this.

Of course, BK is a complex person, and autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is only one element of his overall psyche. Clearly there are more things at play here. Just as we cannot attribute everything about him to ASD, we also cannot remove it entirely from our understanding of him. There are many other elements of his behavior (that are known to us so far) that I believe connect quite strongly to being on the autism spectrum IMO, but I decided to focus on these recent posts about his interactions with people at WSU.

All MOO and a caveat - I hope/think our community here at WS has the wisdom to know that discussing how autism spectrum disorder potentially plays a role in a specific person's actions (in this case, BK's), it doesn't equate to a global judgement/assumption about all people who are on the spectrum.

BK and Defense used ASD to explain away behaviors. I am not buying it and it is disrespectful to anybody who is on the spectrum. Just shows you how manipulative he is, and what lengths they go to in applying diversional tactics. JMOO

 

[Ghostwheel]

"Two high school friends of Bryan Kohberger's, Casey Arntz and a young woman named Bree said:

'Kohberger was overweight
and was bullied a lot in high school,
until his senior year, when he lost about 100 pounds'.

Casey Arntz says,
'He was rail thin
and It was after that weight loss that a lot of people noticed a huge switch'."

RSBM

This is what I see in his pictures. The picture of him overweight, he has normal eyes, though a little unfocused, an open face. After he lost the weight, he has the bulging, staring eyes and a closed face. I don't know what happened in there, but something did. Maybe he found out that the weight wasn't really the issue. Maybe he thought if he just lost the weight, people would accept him but if people weren't his strong suit, losing weight does not fix that. And I have no idea where his drug habit fell in the timeline.

 

[cottonweaver]

TRO on media releasing any further bedroom crime scene photos.
( media outlets FOIA'd 200 photos and were expected to publish over time. Maddie's Mom initiated the TRO, understandably)

 

[Inthedetails]

TRO on media releasing any further bedroom crime scene photos.
( media outlets FOIA'd 200 photos and were expected to publish over time. Maddie's Mom initiated the TRO, understandably)

In case anyone else didn't know:

TRO = Temporary Restraining Order