PLEA DEAL REACHED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #109

[StarryStarryNight]

Most certainly she's lining up for the penalty phase.

There hasn't, however, been so much as a whisper of VSS. Nothing.

I still think it'll be difficult to engender sympathy for BK. He's just a sorry, unsympathetic soul. But she has to try.

It's just that, for any ACE (adverse childhood experience), the opposite is arguably true.

Poverty. But actually he grew up in a pretty typical middle income family.

Maybe he was bullied. Just as much anecdotal information that he was a bully.

Clumsy, can't tie his own shoelaces, makes upside down 5s. Even the judge was incredulous-- as to what bearing that has on him now. "Was that before his doctoral program?"

VSS, to be honest, is probably her beat bet for pulling on jurors' heartstrings. Poor boy, sitting out of life, because of VSS, struggling to make sense of a significant disease, not getting the diagnosis and treatment he needed, but it looks like a door AT ain't opening. So she has reasons not to. Heroin might be one big reason. Score 1 for VSS, lose 10 with hard-core drug use. Actually lost all sympathy.

AT's biggest barrier (for the penalty phase) IMO is that any documentable hardships for BK were historical, dating to his childhood and adolescence. Kindergarten BK didn't murder anyone in Moscow. Teen BK didn't murder anyone in Moscow.

Adult BK did. An adult who enjoyed more academic success than most of the population, an adult who lived and worked independently, applied for programs and housing and secured both, who could drive a car by day and night, manage tabs and license plates, voted if he wanted to, navigated the real carnivorous world to manage a complicated vegan diet, successfully shed 100# and maintained it with dedication and running.

And killed four people anyway. Which animal wins? As the saying goes, the beast you feed.

BK catered to his own dark thoughts, as an adult. That's on him.

I feel sorry for his parents because they lose kindergarten BK and teen BK and baby BK, whom they surely loved as parents do. But that's not who showed up at 1122 King Road. That was grown up BK, making life choices, freely and without apology.

IMO he betrayed them, betrayed everything they tried to do for him.

His childhood isn't going to save him now.

JMO

From above…

“I feel sorry for his parents because they lose kindergarten BK and teen BK and baby BK, whom they surely loved as parents do. But that's not who showed up at 1122 King Road. That was grown up BK, making life choices, freely and without apology.
IMO he betrayed them, betrayed everything they tried to do for him.
His childhood isn't going to save him now.”

Well said.
I wish the prosecution would include this in their closing arguments.

 

[whatzthebuzz]

It's my opinion (and my friend Chat GPT agrees with me) that if 48 hours charges for a podcast, it's only for the early release and eventually, all of their podcasts are free. Not sure of the time frame.

The June 19th 48 hours on Kohberger is free for me on several platforms.

48 hours is going to cover the trial. This will be the first time 48 hours is doing podcasts to cover a trial. Looks like the podcasts may be quite frequent. Overcast (a podcast app) has a free version (if you don't like Amazon). Apple podcast app is free on the Apple store and there are several Android free apps.

At any rate, the premium shows eventually become free (IME, it's usually about a week).

IMO.

Thanks for the information! I've been using an Android App, Podcast Addict, for a very long time. I think I was a little over anxious when I searched the app for the podcast as I couldn't find it the first time I searched. The search engine picked it up yesterday and I breathed a sigh of relief.

 

[Teche]

Most certainly she's lining up for the penalty phase.

There hasn't, however, been so much as a whisper of VSS. Nothing.

I still think it'll be difficult to engender sympathy for BK. He's just a sorry, unsympathetic soul. But she has to try.

It's just that, for any ACE (adverse childhood experience), the opposite is arguably true.

Poverty. But actually he grew up in a pretty typical middle income family.

Maybe he was bullied. Just as much anecdotal information that he was a bully.

Clumsy, can't tie his own shoelaces, makes upside down 5s. Even the judge was incredulous-- as to what bearing that has on him now. "Was that before his doctoral program?"

VSS, to be honest, is probably her beat bet for pulling on jurors' heartstrings. Poor boy, sitting out of life, because of VSS, struggling to make sense of a significant disease, not getting the diagnosis and treatment he needed, but it looks like a door AT ain't opening. So she has reasons not to. Heroin might be one big reason. Score 1 for VSS, lose 10 with hard-core drug use. Actually lost all sympathy.

AT's biggest barrier (for the penalty phase) IMO is that any documentable hardships for BK were historical, dating to his childhood and adolescence. Kindergarten BK didn't murder anyone in Moscow. Teen BK didn't murder anyone in Moscow.

Adult BK did. An adult who enjoyed more academic success than most of the population, an adult who lived and worked independently, applied for programs and housing and secured both, who could drive a car by day and night, manage tabs and license plates, voted if he wanted to, navigated the real carnivorous world to manage a complicated vegan diet, successfully shed 100# and maintained it with dedication and running.

And killed four people anyway. Which animal wins? As the saying goes, the beast you feed.

BK catered to his own dark thoughts, as an adult. That's on him.

I feel sorry for his parents because they lose kindergarten BK and teen BK and baby BK, whom they surely loved as parents do. But that's not who showed up at 1122 King Road. That was grown up BK, making life choices, freely and without apology.

IMO he betrayed them, betrayed everything they tried to do for him.

His childhood isn't going to save him now.

JMO

Was Bryan officially diagnosed with VSS or did Dr. Google?

 

[Megnut]

Was Bryan officially diagnosed with VSS or did Dr. Google?

I don't know the answer, but if he self diagnosed, maybe that's why AT is staying away from it. No mention in any of the motions we've seen and I can't think of a legal reason why she'd be able to hide it under seal.

JMO

 

[Sundog]

Most certainly she's lining up for the penalty phase.

VSS, to be honest, is probably her beat bet for pulling on jurors' heartstrings. Poor boy, sitting out of life, because of VSS, struggling to make sense of a significant disease, not getting the diagnosis and treatment he needed, but it looks like a door AT ain't opening. So she has reasons not to. Heroin might be one big reason. Score 1 for VSS, lose 10 with hard-core drug use. Actually lost all sympathy.

<snipped for focus>

I don't think that BK will lose sympathy from the jurors during the sentencing phase based on his use of heroine. It is most likely that at least one (if not more) jurors have known one person who died from an overdose of drugs or is suffering from an addiction and will probably be sympathetic to drug addiction. Also, he overcame the addiction, which is so difficult for so many young people today. I think there could be sympathy on that issue.

 

[Seattle1]

Was Bryan officially diagnosed with VSS or did Dr. Google?

BK wrote that he developed the syndrome on Sept. 21, 2009. He was almost 15 years old at that time and his friend T. Arntz quoted below recalls how he tried to cure his VSS through diet. Given BK was school-age then, I think he'd be receiving regular medical care but experts today still don't know much about the cause of VSS, and per the link below, there is no known cure. IMO, hard to say if there's anything "official" about this diagnosis. I'd not heard of VSS until this case!

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article273153545.html

3/27/23

The man charged with the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students has spent much of his teen and adult life consumed by a rare neurological disorder known as visual snow syndrome.

“He would talk about it, like, all the time,” Thomas Arntz, a former friend of Koberger’s in high school, told the Idaho Statesman in a phone interview. “The word that comes to mind is that he was neurotic about it, and talked about it relentlessly. I guess it truly bothered him to no end.”

Learning of the condition through Bryan Kohberger was the first time many people following the case had heard of the little-known condition. Even experts say they have a lot to learn.

[..]

Suspect documented condition

Online records suggest that Kohberger turned to the internet to talk about his struggles with the condition. A user who appeared to be Kohberger posted about visual snow on Tapatalk, an online forum, between 2009 and 2012.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article273153545.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Megnut]

<snipped for focus>

I don't think that BK will lose sympathy from the jurors during the sentencing phase based on his use of heroine. It is most likely that at least one (if not more) jurors have known one person who died from an overdose of drugs or is suffering from an addiction and will probably be sympathetic to drug addiction. Also, he overcame the addiction, which is so difficult for so many young people today. I think there could be sympathy on that issue.

Very true (people being sympathetic to addiction)... but he did overcome it so it's not really an element of the crime which I feel is why any sympathy might be canceled out. In particular how relevant is drug use like 10 years prior?

The jury will constantly weigh what he did then (for which they might help sympathize) to what he did now (slaughter four victims), I just wonder how much sympathy will carry over.

I know she needs just one (juror) to lean in.

It's glaring to me that there's NOTHING from which AT can elicit sympathy for BK in his adulthood. He's enjoyed a relatively hohum adulthood, despite any childhood adversity.

Family (his family) impact statements might yield more sympathy than anything else.

JMO

 

[MeadowMuffin]

Was Bryan officially diagnosed with VSS or did Dr. Google?

What Happened to Bryan Kohberger? Part 3: Linking His Physical Symptoms to Toxic Metals and EBV

The above link is to a 4 part series I read. Take the medical stuff with a grain of salt. This is from Part 3.

He writes in his Tapatalk posts that he saw either an ophthalmologist or optometrist for his eyes, then saw a neurologist a short time after. He had migraines, tinnitus, visual problems, etc. Tried many meds, things either didn't help or he had side effects.

In one of the November 2009 posts, Kohberger notes that he had sought professional medical help for his condition:

On the left side of your peripheral vision there is like.. a point where you pass something and it gets deformed slightly as if something flickers over it… I
can feel this somehow in my eye but I will be seeing a neurologist in 4 days, and since I saw an eye doctor a month ago and no eye condition develops like that
don’t tell me to see one (yes I saw an opthamologist and an optomitrist or w.e).

Kohberger did not report back on his appointment with the neurologist, but apparently it didn’t help because in 2011 he was back in the forum posting about his symptoms.

 

[gremlin444]

What Happened to Bryan Kohberger? Part 3: Linking His Physical Symptoms to Toxic Metals and EBV

The above link is to a 4 part series I read. Take the medical stuff with a grain of salt. This is from Part 3.

He writes in his Tapatalk posts that he saw either an ophthalmologist or optometrist for his eyes, then saw a neurologist a short time after. He had migraines, tinnitus, visual problems, etc. Tried many meds, things either didn't help or he had side effects.

In one of the November 2009 posts, Kohberger notes that he had sought professional medical help for his condition:


Kohberger did not report back on his appointment with the neurologist, but apparently it didn’t help because in 2011 he was back in the forum posting about his symptoms.

My adult son has VSS. He also started with optometrists, ophthalmologists, and a neurologist. The ultimate doctor he ended up at was a neuro-ophthalmologist. I suspect that in the period of time between his groups of postings, BK was referred to one as well.

 

[SteveP]

<snipped for focus>

I don't think that BK will lose sympathy from the jurors during the sentencing phase based on his use of heroine. It is most likely that at least one (if not more) jurors have known one person who died from an overdose of drugs or is suffering from an addiction and will probably be sympathetic to drug addiction. Also, he overcame the addiction, which is so difficult for so many young people today. I think there could be sympathy on that issue.

The same jurors that may be asked, in the sentencing phase, to extend sympathy and grace to BK for having, and overcoming, a past history of heroin use and addiction, may also extend that same sympathy and grace to the poor DD driver, who may have been battling her own demons with opioid use, due to a claim of Fibromyalgia and severe arthritis. The DD driver who was out that early morning, not stargazing, but working, that may be called to provide key evidence that places BK at the scene of the murders, at the time of the murders. Any attempt by AT to paint her as an unbelievable, whacked-out druggie may come back to bite her in the tuckus. JMO

 

[Megnut]

The same jurors that may be asked, in the sentencing phase, to extend sympathy and grace to BK for having, and overcoming, a past history of heroin use and addiction, may also extend that same sympathy and grace to the poor DD driver, who may have been battling her own demons with opioid use, due to a claim of Fibromyalgia and severe arthritis. The DD driver who was out that early morning, not stargazing, but working, that may be called to provide key evidence that places BK at the scene of the murders, at the time of the murders. Any attempt by AT to paint her as an unbelievable, whacked-out druggie may come back to bite her in the tuckus. JMO

Please, Universe, this.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Most certainly she's lining up for the penalty phase.

There hasn't, however, been so much as a whisper of VSS. Nothing.

I still think it'll be difficult to engender sympathy for BK. He's just a sorry, unsympathetic soul. But she has to try.

It's just that, for any ACE (adverse childhood experience), the opposite is arguably true.

Poverty. But actually he grew up in a pretty typical middle income family.

Maybe he was bullied. Just as much anecdotal information that he was a bully.

Clumsy, can't tie his own shoelaces, makes upside down 5s. Even the judge was incredulous-- as to what bearing that has on him now. "Was that before his doctoral program?"

VSS, to be honest, is probably her beat bet for pulling on jurors' heartstrings. Poor boy, sitting out of life, because of VSS, struggling to make sense of a significant disease, not getting the diagnosis and treatment he needed, but it looks like a door AT ain't opening. So she has reasons not to. Heroin might be one big reason. Score 1 for VSS, lose 10 with hard-core drug use. Actually lost all sympathy.

AT's biggest barrier (for the penalty phase) IMO is that any documentable hardships for BK were historical, dating to his childhood and adolescence. Kindergarten BK didn't murder anyone in Moscow. Teen BK didn't murder anyone in Moscow.

Adult BK did. An adult who enjoyed more academic success than most of the population, an adult who lived and worked independently, applied for programs and housing and secured both, who could drive a car by day and night, manage tabs and license plates, voted if he wanted to, navigated the real carnivorous world to manage a complicated vegan diet, successfully shed 100# and maintained it with dedication and running.

And killed four people anyway. Which animal wins? As the saying goes, the beast you feed.

BK catered to his own dark thoughts, as an adult. That's on him.

I feel sorry for his parents because they lose kindergarten BK and teen BK and baby BK, whom they surely loved as parents do. But that's not who showed up at 1122 King Road. That was grown up BK, making life choices, freely and without apology.

IMO he betrayed them, betrayed everything they tried to do for him.

His childhood isn't going to save him now.

JMO

All great points, IMO. Just keeps me wondering what the missing pieces of the puzzle might be as to what lead to / why he allegedly did this.

And not that his Defense team or family as witnesses would necessarily go there, but I wonder sometimes what if there are extenuating circumstances they may bring up in the penalty phase that are under seal?

Scratching my noggin, wondering where the Defense may have been going awhile back with the family genetics should be investigated trope, and if it might come up at the end as a sort of Hail Mary.

JMO

 

[seasideForest]

Everybody has stuff. Pasts. Diseases, disorders, challenges, traumas. Tales from junior high. We all survived adolescence. Even if we concede ASDL1, OCD and ADHD, those aren't uncommon diagnosis. None of them are direct paths to homicidal tendency. He's just a mean person.

Exactly.

I have cptsd and a number of points on the ACE scale. It's not even an excuse to vandalise a building or go shoplifting far less (allegedly) stab 4 people to death in their sleep.

JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

My take on the penalty phase is how BK presents himself and how the jurors feel about it. People cannot help their impressions. If BK is found guilty and he continues to not react, the average person will not feel sorry, but assume he'd just do it again if he should escape. But there will be some people who would look at that and say "Somethng is wrong with that man" and fill in their own experiences and stories to find sympathy. It's going to boil down to who ends up on the jury, imo. I don't think anything AT says will matter nearly as much as BK's actions that the jury can see.

 

[Megnut]

My take on the penalty phase is how BK presents himself and how the jurors feel about it. People cannot help their impressions. If BK is found guilty and he continues to not react, the average person will not feel sorry, but assume he'd just do it again if he should escape. But there will be some people who would look at that and say "Somethng is wrong with that man" and fill in their own experiences and stories to find sympathy. It's going to boil down to who ends up on the jury, imo. I don't think anything AT says will matter nearly as much as BK's actions that the jury can see.

He's in Big Trouble if anyone on the jury is familiar with duper's delight.

JMO

 

[Sachi]

He's in Big Trouble if anyone on the jury is familiar with duper's delight.

JMO

I looked that up and reading the full description and realized, we have all witnessed that in someone , sometime in our life, thank you Megnut! Gives me the heebie jeebies

 

[Gemmie]

Was Bryan officially diagnosed with VSS or did Dr. Google?

No idea if he was officially diagnosed... but he did talk about having it as a teen (in 2009) back in 2011. So either he self-diagnosed... or was officially diagnosed.

The New York Times reported on Jan. 13 that Kohberger, 28, allegedly posted on an online message board devoted to a condition called visual snow syndrome, a disorder that causes someone to see static.

In January 2011 he allegedly wrote: "I have had VS [visual snow] since september 21st of 2009. Since then I have changed, mainly from the anxiety and sense of derealization and hopelessness."

Kohberger wrote in May 2011 that he has "depression, no interest in activity, constant thoughts of suicide, crazy thoughts, delusions of grandeur, anxiety, poor self image, poor social skills, NO EMOTION." The post concluded: "When I get home, I am mean to my family. This started when VS did. I felt no emotion and along with the depersonalization, I can say and do whatever I want with little remorse."

In a July 2011 post, Kohberger allegedly wrote: "I have had this horrible Depersonalization go on in my life for almost 2 years. I often find myself making simple human interactions, but it is as if I am playing a role playing game. ... As I hug my family, I look into their faces, I see nothing, it is like I am looking at a video game, but less. ... I am blank, I have no opinion, I have no emotion, I have nothing."

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger wrote about 'delusions of grandeur' in online forum

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger allegedly posted in an online forum years ago that he had "crazy thoughts" and "delusions of grandeur."

abc7.com

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Remember when AT said at least two people committed the murders? Then why did she think her fourth alternate perpetrator, at least, could do it alone?

 

[PunishThenForgive]

The prosecution says that the DD receipt corroborates its witnesses’ testimony.

So who are these witnesses? DM and BF (because it supports their claim that the murders occurred after 4 am), and the DD driver herself?



Source: States Reply to Defendants Objection to MIL RE Self Authentication of Records

 

[snooptroop88]

Good luck with that argument. Most of the inmates on death row come from impoverished backgrounds. Bk’s parents weren’t impoverished imo - they just have terrible credit ratings.

I tend to agree. Just generally, there have been many defendants in high profile cases that were much-- and I mean much-- more sympathetic than BK, jmo. And they got the DP. By the time the jurors reached conviction, my guess is they were anxious to dispense justice, and the crimes in these cases are so heinous that this probably seemed to the jurors to be an entirely just punishment. And while you can bifurcate the trial, you can't bifurcate the jurors' short-term memories, and I'm sure it's not lost on them that they just had to watch the P fight tooth and nail to show this same person before them now is guilty.

He's not at all sympathetic, jmo. If I were a juror, I'd be looking at him knowing full well that if he had the chance again, he'd probably go out and do the exact same thing. It's harsh, but it's jmo.

Bundy's background was so freakish in its own right that he might actually have stood a better chance of avoiding the DP than BK does. BUT Bundy was so arrogant he wouldn't allow a proper defense. Arrogance doesn't bode well in terms of successful mitigation. And that's something Bundy fanboy BK (LOL, I really appreciate the poster who came up with that)... that's one of the few things BK acutally has fully in common with Bundy, jmo. BK has just that same attitude. And he'll probably die for it, and with it. I don't think AT is going to be able to pull this off. And just updating as I'm reading, Bundy was actually offered a plea deal and he turned it down.