Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #4

[Paladine]

Very good discussions......

To get a better understanding we can use the cliche "It is what it is". In this case a suicide is a suicide and a homicide is a homicide. The events that lead up to the death will indicate which it which.

If we witness a person jumping from a bridge (no one pushing him) the conclusion of a suicide can be made easily. If there are no eye witnesses then information is needed to validate the claim of suicide.

Going back to the cliche a suicide would/should have been cut and dry with a note and a simple death. Often you see the event occur in a closet or such. The more elaborate it gets the further away from the norm it goes. At a certain point past the norm deception starts to take form. When deception is identified the scales starts to tip to homicide and the many different facets (Murder, criminal and so forth).

In RN's case the initial investigation starts off questionable in that the scene was altered which compromises the investigation (no one saw RN in the natural position of death.) This starts the questioning of events.

Questions are further induced by AS claim to make a revival attempt with the found positioning of RN questioning his account not to mention the nudity of her body this takes the case off the norm.

I don't think someone set out to murder her, It does not look like she was in a state of depression to commit suicide which leads to the potential of an accidental death and a cover up that followed.

Here is the point that brings AS first in the pool of suspects. A body that has been hung has certain conditions in place which some of those conditions are visually disturbing and indicates death. For AS to think that he could have revived her he had to have been near the TOD.

A jump to death would have broken the neck and the visual signs of death would have been present negating the need for revival.

These factors plays an important part and the forensic results will validate the true cause of death and the inconsistencies be eliminated.

I think LE has the scene mapped out they just need the forensic to collaborate it and it does have a twist other wise they would have stated the facts long ago.

Inobu

Verbatim quotes from Police presser:

"reporting party told the responding officers he had found Nalepa with a rope around her neck and hanging from a balcony off the main house."

"Adam S. informed us that he cut her down when he found her"

"When the first units from Coronodo Police arrived they believed she was deceased yet they performed life saving measures, anyway, until the fire dept. showed uo to pronounce her"

Was she hanging by the neck? "That is what we were told from the reporting party (AS) when he found her""

"numerous items of evidence, the scene was quite suspicious"

"Not ready to disclose what the material was for the bindings, there was a rope suspending her"

911 caller said: "there was a woman on the property who appeared to be dead"

Did Adam heard any sign of struggle on property? "We're not ready to disclose that information"

Last seen alive: "Tuesday evening by Adam".

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/...oCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

 

[Inobu]

oceanblueeyes

That is why the time of the statement is important.

This is hypothetical

Say that the comment of the tugboat was made as he was going to the airport (to San Diego) this means that he was making a false statement to cover his where about.

If he made the statement prior to the knowledge of the accident then it coincides with the truth.

Inconsistencies seems to come from him a lot.

 

[Inobu]

Paladine,


Inconsistencies can have us running in circles.

watch..

"When the first units from Coronodo Police arrived they believed she was deceased yet they performed life saving measures, anyway, until the fire dept. showed uo to pronounce her"

Based on the aerial images. Her arms were still behind her back. Cannot preform CPR with arms in that position need to position the body so that the lungs can be filled with oxygen and heart pumped to circulate blood. Blue article around her neck and body position does not indicate such action.

 

[Carrington]

Toxicology reports normally take up to six weeks to be completed, but authorities could have them finalized by the end of next week, FOX reported.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/new...irlfriend-of-arizona-millionaire-ncx-07202011

This story was written on July 20th.
I think they have everything they need to make the determination, suicide or murder.
What's the hold-up?

IMO

 

[x_files]

I agree Inobu this would take way too long to be a hit. And many hits are not traceable because they are exacted so quickly. So little evidence is left.

It's too complicated. It reminds me of Sharon Tate (just the hanging part and that it's in a mansion).
It seems ritualistic. Either she committed suicide ritualistically or someone committed a ritualistic homicide fueled by sexual obsession, sadism, to humiliate or to torture.
I have a real hard tie a sad grieving possibly drunk woman could hogtie herself naked and throw herself off a balcony. This is very dramatic and complex way to commit suicide.
I wonder about ritualistic murders and homicides recently that could be connected. Or about JS mental state.

 

[Inobu]

You have to key on the quotes from the investigating LE in that they will be as precise as possible. For example the media is using hanged based on AS report and the LE used "suspended".

LE used criminal act which is a classification.

I have a feeling that it is cut and dry but family implication is impeding it.

 

[arielilane]

Why would AS think that Maxie's fall was anything other than an accident? Certainly the killer would realize that a nude body would draw more attention to this situation...unless she was nude when he confronted her?

Rebecca may have had a habit of sleeping in the nude?

 

[Paladine]

Paladine,


Inconsistencies can have us running in circles.

watch..

"When the first units from Coronodo Police arrived they believed she was deceased yet they performed life saving measures, anyway, until the fire dept. showed uo to pronounce her"

Based on the aerial images. Her arms were still behind her back. Cannot preform CPR with arms in that position need to position the body so that the lungs can be filled with oxygen and heart pumped to circulate blood. Blue article around her neck and body position does not indicate such action.

So, by what we see, it would seem the police are misinforming us...

 

[Paladine]

Rebecca may have had a habit of sleeping in the nude?

That's what I'm thinking, too, arielilane...

 

[Paladine]

It's too complicated. It reminds me of Sharon Tate (just the hanging part and that it's in a mansion).
It seems ritualistic. Either she committed suicide ritualistically or someone committed a ritualistic homicide fueled by sexual obsession, sadism, to humiliate or to torture.
I have a real hard tie a sad grieving possibly drunk woman could hogtie herself naked and throw herself off a balcony. This is very dramatic and complex way to commit suicide.
I wonder about ritualistic murders and homicides recently that could be connected. Or about JS mental state.

That's the big question, to me. Some folks are into BDSM. Was Jonah? Domination and bondage doesn't always have to be mutually agreeable; it should be, but it's not...domination fuelled by rage might just go too far, and then a coverup might be needed....AS's role? IMO.

ETA: we need hospital tapes, imo.

 

[Inobu]

So, by what we see, it would seem the police are misinforming us...

No, we have to be attentive in that "people" are taking notes and writing what LE is stating and then writing the articles. Their interpretation could skew what we are getting.

 

[Paladine]

No, we have to be attentive in that "people" are taking notes and writing what LE is stating and then writing the articles. Their interpretation could skew what we are getting.

The note I took, and the note you quoted, was directly from the police presser, verbatim...so, to get this straight...are you then saying the OTHER reporting is wrong? :waitasec:

ETA: just saw your response...need reading glasses. Got it. And I SO agree...interpretation is everything...thats why I wrote out exactly what Curran said.

 

[scorekeeper]

As I stated before it is important to listen to the words used and the source.

This article is from Memphis. Home town of AS. http://www.wmctv.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion?clienttype=printable

Adam Shacknai lives in an apartment in Midtown Memphis. His leasing agent neighbor, Robert Sanders, said he last saw him a few days ago."He said that he was going to have to go back out on the tugboat company he works for," said Sanders.

Instead, Adam Shacknai ended up in San Diego in a guest house in his brother's mansion.

The time of this conversation is important in that it indicates if AS was trying to set up an alibi or was prior to him knowing the events of his nephew and a change of plan was ensuing unannounced to him.

Monday, Jonah Shacknai's son fell down a staircase at the home and is in a coma. Nalepa was the only one at home with the boy when that happened.

The source of information or comment is important in that it ties RN as a responsible party in someone's mind. The question is where did the reporter get this info and what does the statement implies and by whom?

RN's death is bazaar and not random. It has to be associated to something and someone other then her.

BBM

His apartment manager said "he saw him a couple days ago". The article was written on the 15th; MS had his "accident" on the the 11th. Did he see him Sunday, Monday or Tuesday am (not sure when he arrived at the mansion - Monday/Tueday)....

Did JS or someone send for him? To get information from RN? Do "do the dirty work"?

I don't think RN's death was random either....the way she was found...speak anger, anger, anger..

This was also taken from the article:

Adam Shacknai said from San Diego that the police were questioning him but he did not have anything to do with Nalepa's death.

Why would you say that??? Did JS or DS make such statements????

Without more information, there are to many unanswered questions and theories

 

[4Jacy]

I believe it. I can see a woman attack her husband if it is really late at night - he reads a story to the baby - and then says "i'm going out now"...(probably going to see the mistress). I can see a woman going crazy and wanting to get physical with the husband.

[I]Oh, Yeah!!![/I]

Me? I would have said "don't let the door hit you in the back but listen buddy when you get back let's talk divorce -- so make time for me." :rocker:

I wouldn't have said anything, because at that point, he wouldn't be able to hear :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[pferrin]

If AS is the perpertrator then his mindset could be more than just revenge for his nephew. It could be that he has had women probs for a long time and may have a great deal of anger towards women.

The manner in which the body was treated could have partially been due to some of his personal issues.

AS lie to landlord is gonna be interesting to see if his cell records show that he got the call about Maxie before or after he planned trip.

Ocean .. I dont think I would ever set up a homicide to look like this one does..but someone that has never commited homicide before might make irrational decisions trying to cover.

Thank goodness I have never come close to homicide..just trying to get into their mindsets.

 

[pferrin]

Rebecca may have had a habit of sleeping in the nude?

This s what I have thought all along.

 

[Paladine]

What if he was a special needs child and required extreme supervision...

FYI: I've searched and searched and can find NOTHING that says he was special needs....

 

[MizStery]

That's the big question, to me. Some folks are into BDSM. Was Jonah? Domination and bondage doesn't always have to be mutually agreeable; it should be, but it's not...domination fuelled by rage might just go too far, and then a coverup might be needed....AS's role? IMO.

ETA: we need hospital tapes, imo.

Thanks Palatine for your post. I just can't forget the pronoun used by Michael Jackson's doctor calling JS 'saturnine'. I think it might be closer to the truth than even we realize. Just my own speculation based on that very thought provoking post.

 

[Paladine]

I honestly have no idea either but the death investigators do seem to think toxicology results can be a factor in suicides.

This morning I read this article. Now they did declare his MOD as a suicide quickly but they also added this.

Los Angeles County Assistant Coroner Chief Ed Winter told The Associated Press in an email Friday that the 42-year-old Irabu died by hanging himself, and the mode was suicide. He said Irabu did not leave a note.

Winter said an autopsy was performed Friday, but it will take six to eight weeks for the results of toxicology tests, which could shed further light on the circumstances of Irabu's death.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6...hanged-self?campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

To All:

Any thoughts on why they could rule his hanging death a suicide before tox results and we need tox results before they rule one way or the other on Rebecca?

 

[arielilane]

Investigators on Tuesaday told 3TV that they are looking into the possibility that the deaths could be linked. They are looking for clues into Zahau's mental state, and trying to see if Max's fall or something else could have led her to suicide.
San Diego Sheriff's Sgt. Roy Frank said suicides and homicides often look alike, even in the bizarre death of Zahau.
"Suicides are unusual. We're seen people who've bound their hands and feet together before committing suicide. People are creative and put a lot of thought into it," said Frank.
Frank added, it could be many more days or weeks before Zahau's autopsy results are released.
"We only get one shot at this, and we have to make sure we get it right."
Investigators consider Jonah Shacknai, his ex-wife, Dina, and his brother, Adam, all witnesses in Zahau's death. Frank says all have been cooperative.
http://www.kmov.com/news/business/125731173.html