Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 11/3/14 Hearing

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  • #1,041
and what does the faux art plagerist possibly have to say to her partner-n-crime? What could possibly be so funny? This is exactly why the camera's need to be there. Isn't MDR an actual mitiagatio att.? She never speaks, nor has any reports for her witness's Just what is her job as a mitagation att?I call foul on her , why is she on this case getting paid. She brought it on herself.



She is not an Atty - she is a mitigation specialist who works for the DT, her job is to help identify mitigating factors that might save JA's life. Wilmott & Nurmi are the Atty's and they can chose to use what Miss Cougarlicious digs up or not.

The point to my post was that she is a paid professional of the court and she knows how to act accordingly (even if cameras were rolling). I believe poster NotMyselfNEmore when she said there was really nothing of substance being discussed that she could surmise from the lip reading. Nurmi whined to the court that a lip reader might be able to understand what the conversation was that took place and Nurmi wants the camera to quit panning to the DT.

I still say if Nurmi wants to whine that this video will somehow compromise JA's ability to get a fair trial - then bring on the professional lip readers (appointed by the court) if this is part of his motion to the COA (or any other court for that matter). At some point, let's call Nurmi's bluff on what is and what isn't harmful in court proceedings.
 
  • #1,042
Since we know they read here is it really necessary or smart to continue to give them ideas? Unless you want to make this thread secret.

They are already reading here . . . happens all the time that we have someone (from the DT) lurking in a big trial. AZL already answered this (keep reading) and it's a Moot point. Just my spaghetti theory anyway - trying to wrap my brain around what Nurmi might be trying to argue to the COA that hasn't already been addressed in their ruling.
 
  • #1,043
I realize the defense can claim a lot of things however I sure wish the judge would scrutinize any allegations much more closer before having knee-jerk reactions.

For example the allegation of the video being done against the rules. A close scrutiny of the wording of the ruling appears that maybe the ruling doesnt cover that. If so, change the ruling first before automatically assuming people did something wrong.

I also thought that any testimony from any witnesses had to at least have some type of foundation to come in as evidence. It seems that the defense witnesses are being allowed to get on the stand and claim anything under the sun with zero foundation that there is even a remote chance that it is true.

For example, the claims that the parents beat and choked Jodi. From what I recall from first trial, there was no testimony before about choking. So how can Nurmi just declare that with no foundation. It seems Juan and the judge could have objected based on no foundation.

And I am going out on a limb here but I am guessing the secret witness is making another outrageous claim with zero foundation.

Just wish any allegation or testimony from the defense would be more closely scrutinized by the judge before they are taken at their word and before any actions begin to happen based on them. Because I for one think a lot of times they are just plain lying at this point.
 
  • #1,044
Since we know they read here is it really necessary or smart to continue to give them ideas? Unless you want to make this thread secret.

I think it's OK since this idea had no legal basis lol.
 
  • #1,045
Can she be declared delusional?

Who JSS? (jk)

I think the only person who might be having some delusional thoughts right now in this trial is Nurmi! MOO
 
  • #1,046
I've never heard about it before, but certainly I've had experiences with other judges in Maricopa County Superior Court who seem unclear about the right of the public to attend court hearings.

One of the questions of COA Judge Portley to Nurmi was (exceprt from wikipedia) In Sheppard v. Maxwell, 384 U.S. 333 (1966), the Supreme Court ruled that the right to a public trial is not absolute. In cases where excess publicity would serve to undermine the defendant's right to due process, limitations can be put on public access to the proceedings.

I gather this case does not meet that burden, but then so many shenanigans going on, we never know what is going to happen next. The Shepherd Maxwell case was reversed on this same argument, I won't even try to understand it, because my legal education does not go beyond torts 101, but am very worried that this case can go that same path, Nurmi trying really hard to make something stick, which is his prerogative, but this entire trial just doesn't seem right, but what do I know.:scared:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheppard_v._Maxwell

Excerpt: Sheppard v. Maxwell, 384 U.S. 333 (1966), was a United States Supreme Court case that examined the rights of freedom of the press as outlined in the 1st Amendment when weighed against a defendant's right to a fair trial as required by the 14th Amendment. In particular, the court sought to determine whether or not the defendant was denied fair trial for the second-degree murder of his wife, of which he was convicted, because of the trial judge's failure to protect Sheppard sufficiently from the massive, pervasive, and prejudicial publicity that attended his prosecution.
 
  • #1,047
I think it's OK since this idea had no legal basis lol.

True Dat!

But as far as I can figure . . . . neither have Nurmi's demands during this entire trial! HA!
 
  • #1,048
I realize the defense can claim a lot of things however I sure wish the judge would scrutinize any allegations much more closer before having knee-jerk reactions.

For example the allegation of the video being done against the rules. A close scrutiny of the wording of the ruling appears that maybe the ruling doesnt cover that. If so, change the ruling first before automatically assuming people did something wrong.

I also thought that any testimony from any witnesses had to at least have some type of foundation to come in as evidence. It seems that the defense witnesses are being allowed to get on the stand and claim anything under the sun with zero foundation that there is even a remote chance that it is true.

For example, the claims that the parents beat and choked Jodi. From what I recall from first trial, there was no testimony before about choking. So how can Nurmi just declare that with no foundation. It seems Juan and the judge could have objected based on no foundation.

And I am going out on a limb here but I am guessing the secret witness is making another outrageous claim with zero foundation.

Just wish any allegation or testimony from the defense would be more closely scrutinized by the judge before they are taken at their word and before any actions begin to happen based on them. Because I for one think a lot of times they are just plain lying at this point.

I'm not sure what you mean by foundation in this context, but if you mean "some reason to think the evidence is true," JSS is not free to reject testimony on the ground that it seems like a lie.
 
  • #1,049
Because evidence that is relevant to mitigation is often not relevant to guilt. E.g., whether or not Jodi is a model prisoner.



In this phase, the rules of evidence are mostly suspended, so I don't think it would be necessary for her to testify in order for the experts to talk about what she told them.

AZ Lawyer, even though the pedo letters were excluded, Martinez still had to make a motion to have testimony of witnesses excluded where they were going to testify about Travis' sexual deviancy. The motion was submitted in 6/2011 and the judge ruled in Martinez favor, so the only way that the pedo claim could get in was if Arias herself took the stand and then the experts would be able to bring it up. His argument went to hearsay and experts repeating hearsay as fact.

If in fact Arias is the secret witness, perhaps this is why she must lay a foundation for her expert?
 
  • #1,050
One of the questions of COA Judge Portley to Nurmi was (exceprt from wikipedia) In Sheppard v. Maxwell, 384 U.S. 333 (1966), the Supreme Court ruled that the right to a public trial is not absolute. In cases where excess publicity would serve to undermine the defendant's right to due process, limitations can be put on public access to the proceedings.

I gather this case does not meet that burden, but then so many shenanigans going on, we never know what is going to happen next. The Shepherd Maxwell case was reversed on this same argument, I won't even try to understand it, because my legal education does not go beyond torts 101, but am very worried that this case can go that same path, Nurmi trying really hard to make something stick, which is his prerogative, but this entire trial just doesn't seem right, but what do I know.:scared:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheppard_v._Maxwell

Excerpt: Sheppard v. Maxwell, 384 U.S. 333 (1966), was a United States Supreme Court case that examined the rights of freedom of the press as outlined in the 1st Amendment when weighed against a defendant's right to a fair trial as required by the 14th Amendment. In particular, the court sought to determine whether or not the defendant was denied fair trial for the second-degree murder of his wife, of which he was convicted, because of the trial judge's failure to protect Sheppard sufficiently from the massive, pervasive, and prejudicial publicity that attended his prosecution.

The right is not absolute, of course--few rights are. That's why the judge has the discretion to, e.g., kick out the cameras or disallow live streaming.
 
  • #1,051
AZ Lawyer, even though the pedo letters were excluded, Martinez still had to make a motion to have testimony of witnesses excluded where they were going to testify about Travis' sexual deviancy. The motion was submitted in 6/2011 and the judge ruled in Martinez favor, so the only way that the pedo claim could get in was if Arias herself took the stand and then the experts would be able to bring it up. His argument went to hearsay and experts repeating hearsay as fact.

If in fact Arias is the secret witness, perhaps this is why she must lay a foundation for her expert?

What I'm saying is, in this phase, hearsay is generally allowed. So prior rulings based on hearsay objections are subject to reconsideration in this phase.
 
  • #1,052
and what does the faux art plagerist possibly have to say to her partner-n-crime? What could possibly be so funny? This is exactly why the camera's need to be there. Isn't MDR an actual mitiagatio att.? She never speaks, nor has any reports for her witness's Just what is her job as a mitagation att?I call foul on her , why is she on this case getting paid. She brought it on herself.

Well ... as it was Mr. Nurmi's earlier contention that his client had no mitigating factors, I believe<mod snip> found her job redundant, and agreed to remain as a paid babysitter/warden/courier, whose responsibility now is to keep the client a) occupied b) amused c) out of trouble and d) out of Nurmi's hair.
 
  • #1,053
One of the questions of COA Judge Portley to Nurmi was (exceprt from wikipedia) In Sheppard v. Maxwell, 384 U.S. 333 (1966), the Supreme Court ruled that the right to a public trial is not absolute. In cases where excess publicity would serve to undermine the defendant's right to due process, limitations can be put on public access to the proceedings.

I gather this case does not meet that burden, but then so many shenanigans going on, we never know what is going to happen next. The Shepherd Maxwell case was reversed on this same argument, I won't even try to understand it, because my legal education does not go beyond torts 101, but am very worried that this case can go that same path, Nurmi trying really hard to make something stick, which is his prerogative, but this entire trial just doesn't seem right, but what do I know.:scared:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheppard_v._Maxwell

Excerpt: Sheppard v. Maxwell, 384 U.S. 333 (1966), was a United States Supreme Court case that examined the rights of freedom of the press as outlined in the 1st Amendment when weighed against a defendant's right to a fair trial as required by the 14th Amendment. In particular, the court sought to determine whether or not the defendant was denied fair trial for the second-degree murder of his wife, of which he was convicted, because of the trial judge's failure to protect Sheppard sufficiently from the massive, pervasive, and prejudicial publicity that attended his prosecution.

Thanks for this info!

Maybe I'm being deliberately naive, but I don't understand. How can the media really affect a defendant's right to a fair trial? The jury is instructed to avoid all media anyway, so it shouldn't matter if the media tweets, airs video, etc. It's the jury's responsibility to steer clear. It's not the media's job to avoid airing things a juror might see! Short of a jury being unable to avoid the news for some crazy reason, I wouldn't think the media would have any impact on the jury's decision.
 
  • #1,054
and so far the media had not run to court challening her. I don't see a judge making a "calling" your bluff call. I don't know her normal trial behavior enough to truly make an informed opinion as to why her rulings are what they are. But the kind of decision made here, to completely close the court and allow secret testimony from a secret witness is pretty much without positive precedent in jurisdictions I'm familiar with and AZL didn't note anything that made AZ more amenable to this type of decision.

It almost seems like she is unable to maintain objectivity and evaluate attorney requests (motions). Which is weird. Litigation goes on constantly and lawyers and judges learn to shrug off criticism and threats of appeals, mistrials etc. and go about their job. But she seems fairly cowed by the DT. I mean Nurmi is always crying the sky is falling, this will cause a mistrial, Jodi's constitutional rights are being violated, etc. NO matter how mundane the issue, he's making it out to be the worst thing ever. I feel like maybe she falls for it. It's a DP case. Maybe she has truly lost sight of what actually consists a "fair" trial for constitutional purposes and buys into DT hype.

But Juan clearly said what was going on today in his comment (helpfully transcribed by daisyd):
The thing that should not be lost in this argument of whether or not we should proceed in this sort of “star chamber” approach to things is the victims’ rights.

He clearly knows "secret" witnesses are unconstitutional. But I'm not sure he even cares anymore-he wants to get this trial done for the family. So, not so much that he doesn't care about unconstitutional rulings, but he's got the lay of the land in dealing with JS and he will work around it. He won't be deterred from his primary mission, getting this completed, which is the exact opposite of Nurmi's primary mission, i.e. mucking up the proceedings and getting a mistrial.

That isn't to say everything Nurmi SAID is wrong. It's true that if the victim's rights under the AZ constitution and statutes are in conflict with the due process rights of the defendant, the defendants rights prevail. But that general statement is, IMO, far removed from anything going on here. Any such conflict, first, should be argued in the open. The burden is on the one seeking an extraordinary remedy to demonstrate the compelling reason for such. The most we can tell, since so much is conducted in secret, is that Nurimi is arguing that they need to present a secret witness with secret testimony in order to ensure due process for JA. But what is this based on? No one associated with the trial has been physically attacked. So, it must be based on the fact that basically everyone pretty much hates a heinous murderer who trashed her victim and made us look at giant blowups of her girly parts. JA is the cause of most of the hate directed at her and, by association, to those that would support what she did or said. She chose to go on the stand in public and lie for 18 days. That can make people really hate ya and witnesses that try and bolster you. And then she got convicted. There is no constitutional right for a convicted murderer to be insulated from public hatred.

There have been many hated killers over the years. The fact that people can blog and twitter has not changed this. It just gives people on all sides of an issue more opportunity to make their views public. That so many people dislike a convicted first degree murderer does not affect her right or ability to put on mitigation witnesses. If witnesses choose to not want to be publicly associated with her, so what? You have no right to be supplied with mitigation. If mitigation exists you can present it. You can subpoena a witness who must testify truthfully. The system is, or should I say was, the same for everyone.

Here, the constitutional right of the Victim is clear:
The Victims’ Bill of Rights, Article II, § 2.1 of the Arizona Constitution, states:

Section 2.1. (A) To preserve and protect victims’ rights to justice and due process, a victim of crime has a right:...

10. To a speedy trial or disposition and prompt and final conclusion of the case after the conviction and sentence.

You can certainly argue that right has alreayd been denied by all the machinations by the DT to delay, prolong and stop, via a mis-trial, this trial.

I do kind of hope that the Appeals CT ends up ruling on the substantive issue of whether there can be secret testimony. Maybe that will jolt JS into stiffening her spine a bit and getting and keeping this trial on track.



IMO
She could not have known in advance that the media would appeal this. So I dont agree that JSS had some planning for this at all. It was just a really bad decision because she is way way way too worried about possible appeals when she has the laws on her side.

She needs to just rely on the law she is trained on and make sound decisions fair to both parties, not just defense.

Nurmi said he is planning on appealing anyway. Its going to happen no matter what she does. She needs to quit worrrying about it and making decisions out of fear.
 
  • #1,055
AZL . . . I have been wracking my brain trying to come up with something that Nurmi might be doing that could actually have a potential of not being laughed out of court @ COA, and then asking you if there is any possible angle he could be trying (given what little snippets we have been afforded). First, thank you so very much for answering and being so patient!

Second . . . what possible angles do you think Nurmi might be trying given what ya know? There has to be some pattern of behavior or some filing or specific thing that he would need to support his seemingly irrational behavior - no?
 
  • #1,056
  • #1,057
True Dat!

But as far as I can figure . . . . neither have Nurmi's demands during this entire trial! HA!
And that's my point. Nurmi doesn't seem to mind if it has a legal basis or not and he has already added that her dad choked her and is now claiming mental illness that wasn't in the first trial. My point is that I don't want him wasting any more of the courts time by ideas he is reading online anywhere but especially here. Since he seems to rely heavily on the social networking that he hates so much. And bottom line is that he really is only concerned with his reputation. Well this is a trial that is ALREADY going to be talked about for years (if it ever reaches a conclusion) and so that ship has already sailed but he cares more about that then he does if JA gets the DP or not. JMHO
 
  • #1,058
I'm not sure what you mean by foundation in this context, but if you mean "some reason to think the evidence is true," JSS is not free to reject testimony on the ground that it seems like a lie.

Thanks AZ. You covered what I was trying to understand.

I keep forgetting that the defendent is more than willing to commit perjury on the stand.

For any improper allegations that are alleged by the defense team besides witness testimony, I just hope the judge doesnt immediately take them at their word before really checking out the allegation.
 
  • #1,059
I'll be in Phoenix around Dec 10. For sure, I thought this sentencing phase would be well over by then, but it looks like it will continue to the end of time. I thought I heard that now there's some process to be able to attend the trial. Does anyone know if this is true? Or, is it just like the last time and I'd have to be there extremely early in the morning?
 
  • #1,060
And of course she got carpal tunnel from writing endless handwritten motions since she was convicted.
Those were my thoughts exactly when the brace was brought into view, the killer has to be writing up a storm, literally.
 
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