Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered

[CARIIS]

JMO but i think that would be a total mistake to try to transmit the information only when required because that is another point of possible failure. We have seen time + time again that things just dont work right when accidents happen. IMO, they just need something very simple and to transmit the GPS location all the time in a fairly frequent basis. Once every 30 seconds would be good enough for me, although even more frequently would be better. Just the location is all that is needed IMO.

Yeh, I agree. And its all the media. IN the history of aviation, MAL is a anomoly. THe notion that we have to invest 7 trillion dollors to correct a non problem is just that. The truth here is, typically, just like here with AIsia, yeh it takes 3=5 days, over water, to locate, a very few plane crashes that occur over water.

And its social media. The notion that one nneds to know where a crash airliner is within 2.5 seconds is the cell phone generation stuff. Low frustration tolerances, but in reality I cant think of an aviation wreck where knowing in 2.5 seconds exactly where the plane had crashed changes any utlimate outcomes!

NTSB, Canada, France,Britain agencies have done amazing just amazing stuff in getting to what one needs to know- what happened and why to try and avoid a repeat. Aviation has done so amazinly. WHich is also (!) going to translate to big issue for AIrbus, if this turns out to be a mirror AF - very very big problem for them. The whole reason for accident investigation is to avoid repeat if poss. IF this ends up , where the computers on this flight blocked the flight crew from doing certain things because it was "thinking" on wrong data, then we are right back where we were the night of AF .

ANd AIrbus is going to have an aweful lot of trouble ($$$) explaining why it did not recify the problem on this series.

Suspensful music: "Your honor, you felt the pivot tubes were dangerous enough to warrent a refit on your A340/A330 series,did you not? More music. What rationial do you have to explain not refitting your A320 series? Music picks up a bit now!

Can you provide the court, other than financials, the reasons why the problematic tube remains (build up the music) to this very day sir, (soaring cresendo of heart pounding music now) aboard all your A320 aircraft? Cymbals crash and silence.

Closeup on the greedy CEO, Americans in the court room jumping up and down seeing $$$ signs, and the jurors gasping!

Next headline. Jury awards victims 32.4 trillion in damages. The story goes away. Airbus fights. Ten years later Airbuss agrees to actually depart with 1.6 million, but the story is stale so noone knows that nothing happened as a result of cooperate greed. Rinse repeat!

 

[Hatfield]

Yeh, I agree. And its all the media. IN the history of aviation, MAL is a anomoly. THe notion that we have to invest 7 trillion dollors to correct a non problem is just that. The truth here is, typically, just like here with AIsia, yeh it takes 3=5 days, over water, to locate, a very few plane crashes that occur over water.

And its social media. The notion that one nneds to know where a crash airliner is within 2.5 seconds is the cell phone generation stuff. Low frustration tolerances, but in reality I cant think of an aviation wreck where knowing in 2.5 seconds exactly where the plane had crashed changes any utlimate outcomes!

NTSB, Canada, France,Britain agencies have done amazing just amazing stuff in getting to what one needs to know- what happened and why to try and avoid a repeat. Aviation has done so amazinly. WHich is also (!) going to translate to big issue for AIrbus, if this turns out to be a mirror AF - very very big problem for them. The whole reason for accident investigation is to avoid repeat if poss. IF this ends up , where the computers on this flight blocked the flight crew from doing certain things because it was "thinking" on wrong data, then we are right back where we were the night of AF .

ANd AIrbus is going to have an aweful lot of trouble ($$$) explaining why it did not recify the problem on this series.

Suspensful music: "Your honor, you felt the pivot tubes were dangerous enough to warrent a refit on your A340/A330 series,did you not? More music. What rationial do you have to explain not refitting your A320 series? Music picks up a bit now!

Can you provide the court, other than financials, the reasons why the problematic tube remains (build up the music) to this very day sir, (soaring cresendo of heart pounding music now) aboard all your A320 aircraft? Cymbals crash and silence.

Closeup on the greedy CEO, Americans in the court room jumping up and down seeing $$$ signs, and the jurors gasping!

Next headline. Jury awards victims 32.4 trillion in damages. The story goes away. Airbus fights. Ten years later Airbuss agrees to actually depart with 1.6 million, but the story is stale so noone knows that nothing happened as a result of cooperate greed. Rinse repeat!

You are right that if this turns out to be the same basic problem as the Air France jet crash, then people will have some explaining to do why this series was not also retro-fitted with the same type of fix.

Its interesting that we see that same sort of thing with automobile recalls. We are seeing it today with the recall on the "air bags" that are faulty in millions of vehicles and when the air bag goes off, it blows bits of metal + plastic parts in your face. The manufacturers and auto companies are trying to say only certain models + years are affected but it is much more widespread than they are claiming. It is all about $$$$ and how they are basically lying to people and not recalling all the cars that need recalled.

I saw the same thing in one of my Chevrolets with the ignition switch. They first claimed my vehicle was not part of the recall and then much later they finally included my model. Until I get it fixed, I am supposed to be sure to not have heavy key chain hanging from my ignition when driving or my car may shut off by itself. LOL

We see this sort of thing all the time with automobile recalls.

 

[Bravo]

Fascinating and informative posts on this terrible tragedy

 

[margarita25]

Fascinating and informative posts on this terrible tragedy

(Indeed. As I've said in all the past similar threads, way above my head, all this aviation stuff. I'm all ears!)

 

[Bravo]

(Indeed. As I've said in all the past similar threads, way above my head, all this aviation stuff. I'm all ears!)

I hear ya. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Never had a fear of flying but I do have "concerns" now with Asian Airlines. Will watch closely as to the conclusions. Thailand is to be our launching pad to several other Asian Countries!!!!!

 

[newone]

I hear ya. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Never had a fear of flying but I do have "concerns" now with Asian Airlines. Will watch closely as to the conclusions. Thailand is to be our launching pad to several other Asian Countries!!!!!

When I was attempting to garner information on their coast guard potential last night, it was scary. JMO that profits trump safety.....coast guard capability is being beefed up to thwart smuggling and guard commercial interests. Did not see mention of public safety in this November 2014 announcement at all. Given the MH370 disaster you would think that would be a priority as well.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/13/us-indonesia-security-idUSKCN0IX10220141113

 

[Yoda]

Update. Three bodies, not 40 have been found.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/as...ndonesia-search-chief-says-three-bodies-retri

 

[Yoda]

Tomnod.com. They are up and running with satellite images if anyone wants to search.

 

[Hatfield]

I have to give some props to Mr. Fernandes for not shying away from this disaster. He at least is not hiding and being secretive or anything. Below are a few comments he made and glad to see that he is out there and taking it on the chin so far. He is the founder of AirAsia.

“I have apologized profusely for what they are going through,” he said of his contact with relatives. “I am the leader of this company, and I have to take responsibility. That is why I’m here. I’m not running away from my obligations.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/1...airasia-flight-8501-bodies-found-in-java-sea/

 

[Bravo]

Tomnod.com. They are up and running with satellite images of anyone wants to search.

Do you have a direct link? TIA. I remember pouring over tiles and must admit not a great eye. I hope some of the folks who have a talent for it swing by.

 

[CARIIS]

I hear ya. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Never had a fear of flying but I do have "concerns" now with Asian Airlines. Will watch closely as to the conclusions. Thailand is to be our launching pad to several other Asian Countries!!!!!

My dear! It is just so safe flying!
The world has been enjoying the safest-ever overall period in aviation history, according to the aviation safety number crunchers.Last year, 265 people were killed in flight incidents -- the safest year in aviation since 1945..This year, the worldwide number of aviation deaths has more than doubled, but it's still relatively low. There have been 761 deaths in 12 commercial aviation accidents in 2014, according to the Aviation Safety Network

But in fairness we need to subtract MAL 17 (295)- so we are at what worldwide 461 fatalties?

The U.S. hasn't seen a large airliner crash with major loss of life since 2001, when American Airlines Flight 587 slammed into the Queens neighborhood of Belle Harbor, New York, killing 265.

You also have to factor in the overall amount of aviation traffic.

o do that, aviation industry trackers monitor total worldwide airport departures by all commercial aircraft. Then they divide the number of annual accidents by that number of departures. The result is called the aviation accident rate. Last year, the rate was 0.24 out of 1 million departures. That means less than one accident for every 1 million flights.

The worst crash year on record — 1972 — also had the most deaths: 2,429

2013 had the least deaths

“The glory of the air transport industry,” Charlton said, “is that when something goes wrong, we work incredibly hard to work out what went wrong and make sure it doesn't happen again.”

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/07/travel/aviation-data/

 

[CARIIS]

Do you have a direct link? TIA. I remember pouring over tiles and must admit not a great eye. I hope some of the folks who have a talent for it swing by.

I am not good at that stuff either. Would this help someone who is good at this : latitude – 4.1235 and longitude 110.3821. last place of plane in air.

THey all keep talking about seeing a shape of a plane under water. I would think that Tomcat thing would show us no?

 

[Bravo]

My dear! It is just so safe flying!
The world has been enjoying the safest-ever overall period in aviation history, according to the aviation safety number crunchers.Last year, 265 people were killed in flight incidents -- the safest year in aviation since 1945..This year, the worldwide number of aviation deaths has more than doubled, but it's still relatively low. There have been 761 deaths in 12 commercial aviation accidents in 2014, according to the Aviation Safety Network

But in fairness we need to subtract MAL 17 (295)- so we are at what worldwide 461 fatalties?

The U.S. hasn't seen a large airliner crash with major loss of life since 2001, when American Airlines Flight 587 slammed into the Queens neighborhood of Belle Harbor, New York, killing 265.

You also have to factor in the overall amount of aviation traffic.

o do that, aviation industry trackers monitor total worldwide airport departures by all commercial aircraft. Then they divide the number of annual accidents by that number of departures. The result is called the aviation accident rate. Last year, the rate was 0.24 out of 1 million departures. That means less than one accident for every 1 million flights.

The worst crash year on record — 1972 — also had the most deaths: 2,429

2013 had the least deaths

“The glory of the air transport industry,” Charlton said, “is that when something goes wrong, we work incredibly hard to work out what went wrong and make sure it doesn't happen again.”

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/07/travel/aviation-data/

Thank You. Only concern is with Asian carriers standards. Agree flying is much safer than driving. I have been on a flight where the plane dropped many many feet. Cant remember what that's called? Wind sheer? frightening at the time but never stopped me/us from further travel.

 

[Bravo]

I am not good at that stuff either. Would this help someone who is good at this : latitude – 4.1235 and longitude 110.3821. last place of plane in air.

THey all keep talking about seeing a shape of a plane under water. I would think that Tomcat thing would show us no?

Yes coordinates needed. Anyone here who can help? I do remember being on it last for a small plane crash. Folks were seeing things that I just couldn't make out. Search was in mountains/snow. Great question as to seeing a shape. Wish I could be more help. If i stare too long at tiles I really start seeing things that really aren't there LOL

 

[newone]

Thank You. Only concern is with Asian carriers standards. Agree flying is much safer than driving. I have been on a flight where the plane dropped many many feet. Cant remember what that's called? Wind sheer? frightening at the time but never stopped me/us from further travel.

Might I suggest a whistle and a stop at MEC for one of these??

http://www.mec.ca/product/5036-337/spot-spot-gen3-satellite-gps-messenger-beacon/

 

[Bravo]

Link

http://www.tomnod.com/campaign/airasiajava2014/map/2tkx17y89

 

[gitana1]

I know I'd read there was one infant and I believe some children. My heart is hurting for them as well as any elderly. I cannot imagine the pain for the families.

Even if the aircraft went down very quickly, the passengers knew what was happening. I pray all will be located intact and their bodies given to their families for proper burial, cremation, or whatever their individual customs calls for.


raying:

It is extremely doubtful that the passengers fully knew what was happening other than there was an emergency and likely a sudden, extreme drop. In moments like that, of extreme emergency, people's adrenaline tends to kick in and they hold on and concentrate on trying to survive the moment - not in feeling intense fear. The body doesn't really allow that, much. (I've read a lot of survivor stories. It's after the catastrophe, if they survive, that shock and panic set in.)

Indonesian Search and Rescue Agency Chief Henry Bambang Soelistyo said he is 95 percent certain the wreckage, just six miles from the plane's last reported position, belongs to the missing passenger jet. An Indonesian air force Hercules search plane overhead saw bodies and the murky outline of a plane underwater, he added.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/search-lost-airasia-plane-expands-land-article-1.2060331

The article speaks more of the people found ... no lifejackets on them ... just lifejackets floating in the water. Maybe they were trying to get the lifejackets out and on.

No way in hell did these people have time or the ability to search for life jackets or put them on, IMO. They simply held onto their seats or one another.

With so many bodies floating around and some of them missing their clothes, I wonder if the plane broke apart in the air? I'm trying to understand how their clothes would be torn off if the plane was intact when it hit the water.

Hitting the water with force would've been enough to tear their clothes off their bodies. Ever heard of people who were flung from cars in crashes or thrown by an explosion, ending up with no clothes or shoes? It's the impact.

So sad. I still don't understand why planes would fly in the direction on storms that were taking place.

Planes try to avoid storms for passenger comfort. But they are equipped to fly through incredible storms, safely, and millions do fly through storms each year without incident.

Which is touching while also translates to they were aware of everything

Not quite. The minute there is turbulence or weather I'm usually grabbing for the hand of my loved one. That doesn't mean I am aware the plane is in trouble or of my imminent death. The passengers were aware of the storm and likely many were nervous. But when the plane crashed it was probably relatively quick (minutes) during which they were not ruminating on what was happening or to come. Their minds shifted into an adrenaline fueled fight or flight mode and they likely just grabbed on tight and didn't think of much at all. Instinct rather than thought takes over, from what I have learned.

 

[Bravo]

I tagged a few spots but they could be boats. Lordy!

 

[skibaboo]

I've been on tomnod for a few hours, going crosseyed! lol





WTH is this?

 

[gitana1]

This calculator shows speed and time until impact.

I put height at 12,000 meters (~36,000 ft) and weight of the plane at 70,000 kg (full capacity is slightly higher but the plane was not completely full). I got:

Speed at impact: 484.97 m/s (meter per second) = 1,745.91 km/h (1,085 miles/hr)

Time until impact: 49.49 seconds


http://www.angio.net/personal/climb/speed


I'm not 100% sure I did this right but I think so.


These are the specification of the Airbus 320-200:

http://www.airberlin.com/en-IN/site/seatplan.php?seatTyp=A320_200&LANG=eng


50 seconds of panic and terror

Nope. Unlikely there was any panic or terror. Just adrenaline and grabbing on for dear life. The body and mind shift into an instinctual state and everything kind of shuts down. I almost feel there is a morbid focus on believing these people suffered terribly. Everything I've read about horrible murders or catastrophic deaths like this indicates the mind shuts down and goes into a very instinctual, protective mode for the most part.

This was relatively quick as the impact killed them instantly. Rest assured, friends. Even in circumstances where people have a lot of time to know they are about to die, a sort of calm tends to kick in. Think of the serene cell phone messages and calls to 911 or to family by people in the planes or towers on 9/11.