Revisiting = 'My Theory'

[BlueCrab]

It is the link - thanks. Couldn't find Chris Stanley (whom I thought was found few years back) - only found recent John & Archuleta.


Name : RAMSEY, JOHN BENNETT
Airman's Address : 213 ELM ST
CHARLEVOIX, MI, 49720-1137
FAA Region : Great Lakes
Date of Medical : Jun, 2003
Class of Medical : 3
Expiration : Jun, 2005
Airman Certificates : Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land
Airplane Multiengine Land
Instrument Airplane


Name : ARCHULETA III, JAMES MICHAEL
Airman's Address : 1815 STONEHENGE DR
LAFAYETTE, CO, 80026-9115
FAA Region : Northwest/Mountain
Date of Medical : Aug, 2004
Class of Medical : 1
Expiration : Feb, 2005
Airman Certificates : Airline Transport Pilot
Airplane Multiengine Land
Airplane Single Engine Land (Commercial Pilot)
Glider (Private Pilot)

TLynn,

What about Jeff Ramsey, John's brother? I think he had a pilot's license also.

JMO

 

[TLynn]

Not sure where Jeff Ramsey lives. Only one I found -


Name : RAMSEY, JEFFREY STUART
Airman's Address : PO BOX 1059
FRONT ROYAL, VA, 22630-0021
FAA Region : Eastern
Date of Medical : Jun, 2002
Class of Medical : 3
Expiration : Jun, 2005
Airman Certificates : Private Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land

 

[TLynn]

Twizzler -

There are no phone records.

 

[Nehemiah]

That is a most interesting thought about the crying before death. I do think that the autopsy noted dried nasal mucosa on her cheek but I'm not sure about anything else such as from the eye area.

Regarding the ATM record/photo...there was one. The photo was supposedly of JAR wearing a baseball cap and was not of his face, but of him looking down. The photo was actually posted on another forum once upon a time, and I saw it, although much debate ensued at a later date about it NOT ever being posted anywhere. I was always curious about why the Rs scampered about to get the older kids cleared and why JR so quickly retained attys for them and for his ex-wife, Cindy.

An alibi is just that, an alibi. Anyone can say anything at anytime to provide an alibi.

IMO

 

[Camper]

we always keep our movie stubs too. After the ticket is torn in half, we just stick the other half in our pocket, just in case we have to go to the bathroom and have to get back in the theatre. When we get home they are usually thrown on the desk and stay there a few days, I'm sure.

Did they have ATM records/photos of him there in Atlanta? I cannot recall if I read that somewhere or not. And again, just by checking phone records would probably clear this up. I would think they have checked all of that though. I find it hard to believe a "under-educated" person here on this forum (as BM always refers to me as), would be the only person to think of checking that, so therefore, I have to assume they checked all of the records already. I think there is a LOT of things we do not know that would change a lot of things.

I did think of this the other day though. When a child dies, and if they were crying before they were killed, would that be something that could obviously been identified as having happened prior to death? I have not seen many children in my days working around the dead, so I really don't know, and the ones I have seen were from motor vehicle accidents/hit by automobiles, etc. I haven't thought of this before either. But when you cry, you sometimes have quite a bit of nasal discharge and your eyes/tear ducts obviously secrete a significant amount of lacrimal fluid, so would there be evidence from that? Might be something of significance because if it were a stranger, she would be crying I am sure before this happened to her. Then again, if she were "in trouble" with her mom she would probably cry a lot then too, and on the flip side, she may not be crying if she were playing with her brother, or if she were with someone she trusted and they just attacked her not giving her much time to cry. Just a thought. Might not amount to anything.

------------<><Twizzler, great input! Betcha that was not investigated, or further, even noted with purpose or explanation by the ME. Anyone with access to the autopsy report on JonBenet? Brother Moon this would give you something to work on, on behalf of the team. Find and read the passage about the nasal area. Thanks in advance.
I have a heavy deadline on making quilts for orphans, for my church. Can't sew and type at the same time.

We do not necessarily discount your perception of Patsy and her personal state of mind It could just not be as wacky as it all sounds, just close to it. None of us have had official detective skill schooling either, oh maybe a couple have.



.

 

[twizzler333]

Twizzler -

There are no phone records.

I know the cellular phone records of the Ramsey's mysteriously disappeared, or so I have heard here on this forum. I am talking about the phone records of people like the Stines, JAR, people in Atlanta they may have called at an odd time other than what they stated, something to prove the Ramseys placed a call TO someone else at an hour when they claimed they were sleeping.

If the theory of Burke and Doug Stine doing this is to hold up then there certainly would have been a call placed to the Stines and surely the phone records of the Stines would show an in-coming call at a odd hour of the night being placed from the Ramsey's home. Everyone is speculating about the odd behavior of the Stines not being called that morning when the Fernies and the Whites were called and the fact that John didn't seem to think the Stines were close friends during a deposition. IF the Stine boy was involved as some believe, and the Ramseys are covering up for Burke and Doug Stine, then I think they would have called the Stines to come get their child so they could finish the cover up and not have any trace of him being there. I think this would apply as well to the JAR theory. IF JAR was involved and they created this cover up and had him fly back to Atlanta to further cover up this crime and his involvement, then I feel quite sure there would be a phone call placed at an odd hour to either the pilot or perhaps someone in Atlanta to verify that his alibi did not stick. He had to have flown back in the wee hours of the morning, and he would have had to call someone to fly him there, so I think if they looked at the records of the pilot or anyone else he could have possibly called from Boulder, they would be able to show his alibi did not exist and he is a serious suspect in this case.

I do NOT think this happened but in order for me to be convinced of this theory I would think a phone record from other parties involved would clear this up. I personally do not think this information exists, because I do not think these theories are consistent with the evidence that is known.

 

[TLynn]

I don't think phone records of third parties were ever subpoened. But it is a good idea!

 

[Camper]

As I recall from past history on the forum here, Stines lived just 6 blocks from the Ramsey home. A participant could have been driven home without a phone call being made, or made on the participants cell phone, IF IF IF he had a cell phone.

Many lacks in the investigation.

Then of course the Ramseys lived in a cramped household with the Stines for 6 months AFTER the death of JonBenet. Special pains, it seems to me were taken by Ramseys, to ensure that WE all knew the Stines were not 'special' friends of theirs.

Aside from the discomfort and pain of JonBenets death, to me a dang near equal discomfort would have been to have moved into a home with people I did not know well. There was Grandpa Paughs empty Boulder apartment for example, hmmm.

The immediate move in with the Stines, gives credence in my mind to BlueCrabs theory.

The Whites were reallyclosefriendswiththeRamseys. I would have thought they would have stepped up to the plate and had the Ramseys come to their home. BUT do not forget the agitation that Fleet had, immediately AFTER the murder, with John Ramsey. I do believe that Fleet holds some vital information to the case, that has not come out because there was no trial.

BlueCrab, do you remember if Fleet was called by the Grand Jury? Or anyone else, my memory has some cracks in it, and my life is consumed with my own life issues now, thanks.



.

 

[sissi]

Didn't Fleet own a property in the same block as the Ramseys? Was this the rental that was occasionally used by GP Paugh? Not certain, and my sis has my "JB library".

 

[Nehemiah]

I was re-reading the book Cracking More Cases (Dr. Lee) last night and came upon this paragraph, which I had not even noticed before. Dr. Lee apparently has many "mistakes" in this book, so we will have to take this passage with a grain of salt. It's just difficult to know sometimes what is erroneous, and what he possibly was privy to that we are not. Anyhow, this passage fits nicely in with Camper's theory, and hence, I wanted to post it here for that reason. If this were in any way containing any truth, it could put a new light on Camper's version of the events that occurred at the Ramsey's house.

"When Christmas morning dawned, the Ramseys awoke, went downstairs, and exchanged their gifts. Melinda and John Andrew were then driven to the Denver airport, to return home to Atlanta to celebrate the rest of the holiday with their mother and her family." from Cracking More Cases by Dr. Henry Lee

Well, we do know that John spent time at the airport on Christmas Day;we thought it was to get the private plane ready. We also know that there were no videos, per the usual Christmas morning, that could substantiate the older kids being present. We then have Mr. Barnhill's rendition of seeing JAR walking up to the Ramsey's house on Christmas Day. What else could fit in here IF JAR were at the home as opposed to being in Atlanta?

IMO

 

[Camper]

I was re-reading the book Cracking More Cases (Dr. Lee) last night and came upon this paragraph, which I had not even noticed before. Dr. Lee apparently has many "mistakes" in this book, so we will have to take this passage with a grain of salt. It's just difficult to know sometimes what is erroneous, and what he possibly was privy to that we are not. Anyhow, this passage fits nicely in with Camper's theory, and hence, I wanted to post it here for that reason. If this were in any way containing any truth, it could put a new light on Camper's version of the events that occurred at the Ramsey's house.

"When Christmas morning dawned, the Ramseys awoke, went downstairs, and exchanged their gifts. Melinda and John Andrew were then driven to the Denver airport, to return home to Atlanta to celebrate the rest of the holiday with their mother and her family." from Cracking More Cases by Dr. Henry Lee

Well, we do know that John spent time at the airport on Christmas Day;we thought it was to get the private plane ready. We also know that there were no videos, per the usual Christmas morning, that could substantiate the older kids being present. We then have Mr. Barnhill's rendition of seeing JAR walking up to the Ramsey's house on Christmas Day. What else could fit in here IF JAR were at the home as opposed to being in Atlanta?

IMO

------------<><Nehemiah, as Dana Carvey's church lady would say, "Now isn't this interesting". I highlighted the portion of your post that was 'interesting'. I am offline now til later in the day. I shall make sure that my FBI friend is alerted to this tidbit, when I pass along the other 'stuff'.

I am scratching my hed on how this all makes a better picture. Maybe Mr. Ree has gone coo coo, er huh? Sumpring naw light in dis pikure. Wha isit?

Anyone remember the date and time the three college friends attended the 'Movie'?



.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab, do you remember if Fleet was called by the Grand Jury? Or anyone else, my memory has some cracks in it, and my life is consumed with my own life issues now, thanks.

Camper,

Fleet and Priscilla White and their two children, Fleet III (about Burke's age) and Daphne (about JonBenet's age), all testified in front of the grand jury.

JMO

 

[Camper]

I had a head thumper thought yesterday while I was out and about.

Three ticket stubs for the movie.

Yes we decided some people do keep ticket stubs from movies.

Keep your stub, but it doesn't have your name on it! ie, it does not show WHO bought the ticket OR when even, does it? The last theatre movie I saw was 'Chicken Run' with my grandkiddies. I buy movies, or rent them. Yes, all three tickets should be in sequential numbering order. One of the two guys could have bought and paid for an extra ticket. The guy who did not go to the movie that night, could have gone another day, or could have gone days before, in order to explain the plot of the movie. I assume the PD would have checked for fingerprints on the stubs.

Did each boy buy their own ticket, er one boy buy two tickets and the other boy bought just his own, or did one boy buy three tickets? The prints on the tickets could perhaps reflect this issue, imop, er huh?




.

 

[BlueCrab]

What else could fit in here IF JAR were at the home as opposed to being in Atlanta?

Nehemiah,

I don't know how this might impact on JAR's whereabouts, but Don Paugh's flying from Boulder to Atlanta on the 24th "standby" always intrigued me. If someone was telling a little white lie that couldn't be verified by the airline because grandpa was a standby passenger, it might fit into this transportation scenario somehow. Was grandpa really still in Boulder on the night of the 25th?

Nedra Paugh in PMPT pb, pg 256:

"I didn't go to John and Patsy's Christmas party, because I was in Roswell. Don, my husband, was there and flew back standby on the 24th so we could spend Christmas together."

JMO

 

[Camper]

Nehemiah,

I don't know how this might impact on JAR's whereabouts, but Don Paugh's flying from Boulder to Atlanta on the 24th "standby" always intrigued me. If someone was telling a little white lie that couldn't be verified by the airline because grandpa was a standby passenger, it might fit into this transportation scenario somehow. Was grandpa really still in Boulder on the night of the 25th?

Nedra Paugh in PMPT pb, pg 256:

"I didn't go to John and Patsy's Christmas party, because I was in Roswell. Don, my husband, was there and flew back standby on the 24th so we could spend Christmas together."

JMO

----<><Hey thats a head scratcher. Perhaps 'he' was the one spirited outta Dodge in the wee hours of the 26th er, in 'the' toy plane.

Then plane not ready in the A.M. of the 26th, for the trip to Charlevoix.

That might explain the R's not just moving into his empty apartment, instead of with the Stines who were NOT, er, ah, friends.

SOOOOO IF IF IF this is the case, he is now dead, so how much of a sentence could we give him at this point.

Another point, was he flown to Roswell, it is a lot closer than GA. When did she return to GA, and was she alone?



.

 

[BlueCrab]

SOOOOO IF IF IF this is the case, he is now dead, so how much of a sentence could we give him at this point.

Another point, was he flown to Roswell, it is a lot closer than GA. When did she return to GA, and was she alone?

Camper,

Neda Paugh passed away, but to best of my knowledge Don Paugh is still living.

I think Nedra was likely talking about Roswell, Georgia, not Roswell, New Mexico.

JMO

 

[Nehemiah]

I had a head thumper thought yesterday while I was out and about.

Three ticket stubs for the movie.

Yes we decided some people do keep ticket stubs from movies.

Keep your stub, but it doesn't have your name on it! ie, it does not show WHO bought the ticket OR when even, does it? The last theatre movie I saw was 'Chicken Run' with my grandkiddies. I buy movies, or rent them. Yes, all three tickets should be in sequential numbering order. One of the two guys could have bought and paid for an extra ticket. The guy who did not go to the movie that night, could have gone another day, or could have gone days before, in order to explain the plot of the movie. I assume the PD would have checked for fingerprints on the stubs.

Did each boy buy their own ticket, er one boy buy two tickets and the other boy bought just his own, or did one boy buy three tickets? The prints on the tickets could perhaps reflect this issue, imop, er huh?

Movie tickets where I live don't have numbers. Of course, we are small town rural America and it might be different in Atlanta. It would be easy to give someone a ticket that has been torn in half and that person come up with it and say it was his/hers from the date in question. Plus, let's not forget that the Atlanta family was lawyered up immediately, also, so alibis were most likely done right.

As far as Don P. flying home on standby, I just assumed that because it was Christmas Eve all flights were booked and he was on standby to get a flight out; when he did, he took it and flew home to Nedra. Maybe I don't understand what you are saying, BlueCrab?

IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

As far as Don P. flying home on standby, I just assumed that because it was Christmas Eve all flights were booked and he was on standby to get a flight out; when he did, he took it and flew home to Nedra. Maybe I don't understand what you are saying, BlueCrab?

IMO

Nehemiah,

I'm not sure I know what I'm saying either. I just threw this out there about grandpa because you seemed to be asking for any other scenarios that might help explain how JAR could have killed JonBenet and still get home in time for an alibi. Nedra was apparently Don's only alibi, and some close friends with movie ticket stubs, and family members, were JAR's only alibi.

If a lie could theoretically get Don Paugh from Boulder to Atlanta on a day different than what he says, then a lie could also get JAR from Boulder to Atlanta on a day different than what he says.

JMO

 

[Camper]

Another oops moment for me, I remember that PR's mom passed away. Don't I also remember that Don Paugh remarried?

Forgive me, I do have cracks in my memory, that are beginning to concern me. Told my kids it won't matter if I cannot remember who I am someday, but hoping they donut forget who I am!

The family surely closed ranks so quickly, that to me is rather suspect. Why bother with protecting everyone at the very outset unless there was a BIG reason, imop.



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[Nehemiah]

Nehemiah, If a lie could theoretically get Don Paugh from Boulder to Atlanta on a day different than what he says, then a lie could also get JAR from Boulder to Atlanta on a day different than what he says.
JMO

Yep, I see now what you are saying.

Camper, you are right about Mr. Paugh remarrying.

Let's keep on thinking along this track.

IMO