S.B.T.C. / Ransom Note Merged

[close_enough]

They are just discussing the handwriting analysis on LKL with two handwriting experts who cannot agree.

Personally, I do NOT see the similarity. The yearbook writing is very embelished - the ransom note looks like a child's scrawl. As the one analyst just said, many people use that "a", including me half the time. To be fair, while the link on this topic at the acandyrose (?) was very compelling to me, I would like to see the entirety of Patsy's version of the note. Anyone know where I can find that?

JMO

can't remember what show it was, but there was an 'expert' on saying he was 99.9% positive the handwriting was the same....(think it was on CNN)....anyway, there was another 'expert' on that said no, they aren't...he said there was nothing that really stood out....they showed different letters from each sample, & compared them...several of the letters were NOT the same....the one that was 99.9% said that the "d"s were the same, when it was obvious they weren't....the guy on the show even pointed that out...

i agree, the yearbook handwriting was embellished...(jr in high school, handwriting)

 

[aspidistra]

I hadn't studied the note in years and have spent some time reading it carefully, especially now that it is very likely that it was written by Karr. Then I looked up the Lindbergh ransom notes. I noticed that the Ramsey note is like a parody and embellishment of the Lindbergh note (or of every note the writer had heard of). The writer had fun with it, inserting lines he remembered from movies, exclamation marks, and mockery. If it was Karr, what was that all about? His love of drama? Anyway...It's so obvious that no one was ever going to call and pick up any ransom money. Remembering the Lindbergh case, the child was already dead when they wrote the note...yet they did pick up the money after all kinds of bizarre letters and meetings. In the Ramsey case, it was not done for money. What was it done for? If he loved her, why strangle her "accidentally" and then crack her skull? This is the part that is most chilling. The Ramseys always said a monster did this and if anyone can be called a monster, this man can if he did this, and went on to live his life the way he did. If he spent 5 hours alone in the house exploring it, having tea, and penning the note, was he planning to molest her and sneak out, or did he realize he had to kill her since she saw his face? I wonder how much of the account he gave Wendy in the third person was true. He said it was all speculation but it sounds like a memory.

Anyway, at least in the Lindbergh case someone kidnapped the child for money. The death was an accident when taking the baby out the window.

This case bothered people because it looked so staged. They said, why would a pedophile do this or that, but look at him. Everything he does is bizarre.

Karr is such a strange creature that it's quite believable that he would have done it just because he wanted to, for reasons he probably wants to continue to talk about. He totally reminds me of Ted Bundy and the way he played with authorities and was driven by an evilness inside him that he felt wasn't really him.

If Karr is a cold monster and also a hapless Ed Grimley who is so delicate and absurd, what is this? It's multiple personality. What else can it be???

 

[BirdieBoo]

I definitely think that if Karr wrote the ransom note, he has multiple personalities, because the ransom note vacillates between the use of "I" and "we" and makes reference to a group of individuals...Also if he wrote it I wondered if the reference to "don't try to grow a brain John" was directed at himself, as perhaps he imagines the "real" John Mark Karr would not do anything like this and imagines himself to be a little girl, the "other personalities" aka the "foreign faction" are supposed to be blamed for the crime not the "real" JMK.

ehhh...rambling and speculating on my part...take it for what it's worth, its really late for me.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Sorry if this has been posted within this thread.

SBTC was reported to have been printed on the baseball cap belonging to Michael Helgoth...

I had forgotten about this. The program I saw with this guy made a pretty compelling case against him as well, if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[magpie]

Speaking of the ransom note here, I'm sure everybody is aware of the $118,000 that the supposed kidnapper specified he/they demanded in the note.

And supposedly this was the exact amount of John Ramsey's bonus that year?

According to Candice DeLong (the ex-FBI profiler/agent) on Catherine Crier yesterday 8/22, this was NOT the amount of Ramsey's bonus that year, and in fact she said his bonus was much higher than $118,000, although she would not divulge the amount.

Candice DeLong said this info about the $118,000 has been known by authorities since JBR's murder but they never corrected the media or anyone else about this $$$ amount of Ramsey's bonus.

I have looked and looked for a transcript of CC show and I cannot find a link to provide. Does anybody know where/if there is a transcript?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

And if the DNA mathces, well I still want lots of coroborating (sp?) evidence.

I can personally see stunning similarities between Patsy's writing and the ransom note. However, if the DNA comes back matching Karr, it is case closed. There is no reason that the DNA from the crime scene should match him. If it does not match, that does not count him out, however, just as it doesn't count out the Ramseys.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

To be fair, while the link on this topic at the acandyrose (?) was very compelling to me, I would like to see the entirety of Patsy's version of the note. Anyone know where I can find that?

JMO

Here's a cached version of a page that has exemplars:

BlabbieVille Home Page

 

[tumble]

Wouldn't Karr have signed it I.S.B.T.C. then?

If I were him I would sign it J.M.K, it would sure be alot easier to take the credit later then.

 

[justice2]

If Karr is a cold monster and also a hapless Ed Grimley who is so delicate and absurd, what is this? It's multiple personality. What else can it be???

The first time I read the ransom note, melodramatic was what came to my mind. Then mental problems, then retarded, and then multiple personalities.

And then I it was written by a female. The threats sound forced. The technical stuff is way off, like money being heavy. I calculated that the money would have weighed 4 to 5 pounds. And then to turn around and put the "heavy money" in a paper bag that would tear. Just doesn't make sense.

And if the money was marked, they wouldn't know about it until after JBR was returned to them. Oh, sorry I mean picked-up.

And the Police being capitalized. This shows respect to me. Well, in general most guys don't like the police or anyone telling them what to do. I'm talking in general here.

But there are several personalities in the ranson letter, the person giving instructions on the money, the person threatening to kill her, and the bozo talking about John Ramsey.

 

[Texana]

THe $118,000 being the "exact" amount of the bonus is one of the first things people mention when they talk about the case--I visited my husband's family this weekend and one of them brought it up.

If it's not an exact match I think it points away from Patsy. She was used to being on stage--I think a theatrical amount like One Milliion or whatever would come much more naturally. (even though pageants aren't dramas performances--at least not intentionally.)

 

[guppy]

THe $118,000 being the "exact" amount of the bonus is one of the first things people mention when they talk about the case--I visited my husband's family this weekend and one of them brought it up.

If it's not an exact match I think it points away from Patsy. She was used to being on stage--I think a theatrical amount like One Milliion or whatever would come much more naturally. (even though pageants aren't dramas performances--at least not intentionally.)

Yes, somehow the ransom amount coming from JR's bonus has become a fact in many places, but it is actually just a theory. I can't believe posters can look at weird persons of interest like Oliva or Karr and not be willing to accept that they might ask for an odd amount. To Karr, it could have been the amount he needed for a sex change operation and to relocate to Thailand.

 

[BBB167893]

"According to Candice DeLong (the ex-FBI profiler/agent) on Catherine Crier yesterday 8/22, this was NOT the amount of Ramsey's bonus that year, and in fact she said his bonus was much higher than $118,000, although she would not divulge the amount."

it was a little more, but not much. I rechecked it. It was pretty close.

"I can personally see stunning similarities between Patsy's writing and the ransom note. However, if the DNA comes back matching Karr, it is case closed. There is no reason that the DNA from the crime scene should match him. If it does not match, that does not count him out, however, just as it doesn't count out the Ramseys."

Well put!

 

[tamfish]

i read here a lot but never post.... here goes:

S.B.T.C. - I don't buy that it means "shall be the conqueror". Saved By the Cross? Maybe.

Has anyone ever suggested it could mean Southern Baptist Texas Convention? Or something similar?

 

[close_enough]

i read here a lot but never post.... here goes:

S.B.T.C. - I don't buy that it means "shall be the conqueror". Saved By the Cross? Maybe.

Has anyone ever suggested it could mean Southern Baptist Texas Convention? Or something similar?

welcome tamfish

i think a lot of folks believe it means Saved By The Cross....i really don't know..

 

[concernedperson]

Sorry, if this link has already been posted but I hadn't seen it. Ex's saying Karr used to sign his letters to wife S.B.T.C.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/0822karrphoto.html

 

[InnocentBystander]

All the meanings from dictionary.com:

Southern Baptists of Texas Convention
Small Business Tourism and Culture
Southwestern Bell Telephone Company
Southern Baptist of Texas Convention
Southside Business Technology Center
Striped Bass Technical Committee
Security Bank and Trust Company
Siberian Banker Training Center
Subic Bay Training Center
State Blood Transfusion Council
Seattle Bicycle Touring Club
Speed Brake Thrust Controller
State Board Training Consortium
Southern Bell Telephone Company
Santa Barbara Tennis Club
Scottish Bakery Training Council
Small Business Training Center
Stony Brook Technology Center
Small Business Tax Controls
Samuel Bill Theological College
Small Business Training Company
Single Band Truncated Crystal
Subic Bay Training Camp
San Bernardino Tri City
Southwestern Bell Telephone Corporation
State Board of Tax Commissioners
Sugarettes Baton Twirling Corps
Skill-Biased Technological Change
Small Business Technology Coalition
Saved By the Cross
Skill-Biased Technical Change
Ministry of Small Business, Tourism, and Culture (Canada)
Stream-Based Trace Compression

 

[Beyond Belief]

If it was used ending a letter/note to the first wife, I would think it meant some more on the lines of "sealed with a kiss/swak" that was used years ago ending letters. The only thing I can think of is TC take care. Sweet baby take care. Some thing like that.
I explored the Southern Bell Telephone Co- Victory Vic is 842, which I found a phone number being with those 3 numbers in Longmont, I think it was, which is close to Boulder. Thinking Victory was aphone number.

 

[LaMer]

So many yes no yes no! X each other out?

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4937378,00.html

Writing analyst was disqualified
Judge challenged expertise of man linking note to Karr

By Lou Kilzer, Rocky Mountain News
August 23, 2006

A handwriting analyst who said he is 99.9 percent certain that John Mark Karr wrote the JonBenet Ramsey ransom note was disqualified as an expert witness earlier this year by a federal judge who challenged his expertise.
Georgia Federal District Court Judge Clay Land wrote that analyst Curtis Baggett was not certified by several industry groups, had not undergone proficiency tests and had not authored texts in the field of handwriting analysis.

In comparison to another expert witness, Land said Baggett's qualifications "are clearly paltry."

-cont-

 

[ragland]

i very much agree with you, i dont believe he signed that years ago....it was a common thing for teens to sign letters that way back then VERY common. quintana and her folks seem like they are a few bricks shy of a full load so im not putting much stock in anything they have to say.

 

[magpie]

"According to Candice DeLong (the ex-FBI profiler/agent) on Catherine Crier yesterday 8/22, this was NOT the amount of Ramsey's bonus that year, and in fact she said his bonus was much higher than $118,000, although she would not divulge the amount."

it was a little more, but not much. I rechecked it. It was pretty close.

SuperDave,

Thanks for your reply, but I have a couple or three questions.

1) Since nobody really knows the amount of John Ramsey's 1996 bonus, how could you check the amount?

2) Where did you check the amount?

3) How much was JR's 1996 bonus?

I'm just wondering because Candice DeLong stressed the word MUCH when she said Ramsey received "much more than $118,0000".

Thanks in advance.