Skyline Groundskeeper says he saw no white truck -Timeline Clarified

[STEADFAST]

so even if terri wasn't actually seen on the access road... that doesn't mean she parked elsewhere and took him out another door.

moo

She could have told LE the truck was at one of those places in the pictures at one time, and when they said that nobody saw it there, she could have said, "Oh, wait. It was over here" (where the other picture is). But, really, it could have been pulled up over by the east door.
Or, it could be that it really was on the access road. Many of us don't think people could remember a truck's location correctly this much later.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

(snipped by me)

Except, if there is a reciept showing TH was at a store some miles away, having completed a purchase of (something) at 9:12...that 15 minutes gets a bit...well...

Let me put it this way.

TH says good bye to Kyron at 8:45.
TH returns to her car and puts Baby K in, add 5 minutes. 8:50.
TH drives to store, add 10 minutes. 9:00 am
TH takes baby out, goes into store, buys something, add 12 minutes. 9:12

It's now 9:12 am, the time there is a reciept for.

So when did she abduct, kill, hide well enough so no searches have yet found Kyron?

The timeline is just too tight...can't be done. Even with 10-15 minutes extra on one side or the other, the timeline just can't be worked out to where he can be hidden as well as he apparently has been.

I just can't see it working, not with this info. It's just too tight. Like wearing a pair of jeans 4 sizes too small...lots of contortion and exercise to get into them, and when you do, you're bulging and immobile, your toes are numb from lack of circulation and you can't breathe - and that's not even getting them zipped. LOL.

The timeline is too tight, with the turf technician's statements.

I soooooooooo hope LE is re-interviewing him...because if they didn't interview him at the beginning, I have very little hope that Kyron will ever be found. If they've been chasing an "obvious" suspect but she's not the one, some bad guy has gotten a 2.5 month head start, and, I'm sure, has attended to all the little details and covered themselves very, very well by now.

And that would just suck.

Best-
Herding Cats

But Terri herself wrote in an email that she left Kyron at 9:00 and had a receipt at 9:12. And we don't know that she took the baby in and out of the truck--she could have had someone else in the truck to watch the baby. And although Terri has a receipt we don't know if she was the one that bought whatever was on that receipt.

 

[JustyThoughts]

Lawdy have mercy, the shoudas, couldas, wouldas, speculations and few known facts are shaken and stirred.... where O where is the truth? Case is like unpeeling an onion - layer after layer. I fear my head may splode. Settles back on the fence and buckles seat belt. Please pass the Fritos.
We are sooo in the dark. Who? Where? How? Why? I'm confident that this group of WSers could find the needle in a haystack with some hard factual evidence. Problem is that the known facts are not being shared (maybe for a good reason and maybe not); we just don't know. Sighhhh. We all just want justice for Kyron and his safe return if that is possible. Bless his heart. .... pass the Cheese Puffs and lets keep on keeping on to see this to it's conclusion. What was it ... 8 months on Somer's case? I do admire the hard work and dedication of our Mods and all those searching so hard to garner facts and seek answers.

 

[fran]

I don't think what he said has any bearing on the case, EXCEPT, he didn't see it. That does NOT mean it wasn't there. SOMEWHERE.

This is Oregon, for goodness sake! I haven't lived there for more than twenty years, but everyone, LOL, well, almost, has a pick up! He just didn't NOTE it. Doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Besides, there was already some witness? don't recall which one, that saw the truck that morning at the school.

REDHERRING!

JMHO
fran

ps....eye witnesses are the most unreliable source of testimony. LE has already said, not sure which location they were talking about, but they already had 'one witness' and needed someone to back it up. They want someone to come forward that PARTICULARLY DOES RECALL that morning and seeing that specific truck in the specified locations....fran

 

[rosiebean]

I'm not so concerned about the truck as I am the children outside at any time that morning, in a group, that may not have had an adult present...

But I still think it would be a magic act for the groundsman to leave at 8:30 thereabouts and Terri or partner wheel up there just in time to be free and clear to lure Kyron from school and whisk him away and no one sees anything. That seems like a great deal of luck, rather than planning.

Likewise, if someone other than TH took him, they were just as lucky. Why is it 'magic' and somehow unbelievable that TH could have gotten lucky but not so much for someone else? As far as I know, NO ONE saw Kyron leave with anyone...and TH is last person to have seen him in the school.

 

[Aedrys]

But Terri herself wrote in an email that she left Kyron at 9:00 and had a receipt at 9:12. And we don't know that she took the baby in and out of the truck--she could have had someone else in the truck to watch the baby. And although Terri has a receipt we don't know if she was the one that bought whatever was on that receipt.

ITA. She has maintained she has a receipt - I've never seen her say it was her at the store, just that she had a receipt and that proved she was there. For all we know, Dede got her that receipt to cover her.

And like I said, no reason for her to have to park. It would take seconds for her to pull the car around and get him as he walks up to her, and then she could run to that store, if she did. It's not impossible.

 

[gardeness]

I hate to keep hammering this point but it sticks in my feeble mind. I still do not see why anyone seeing TH leave or arrive with Kyron would make anyone sit up and notice...if you are used to seeing kids/parents coming and going at school why would this draw your attention? What if he got to school and had an accident (bathroom kind) and had to be rushed out to get more clean clothes? Why would you assume anything wrong seeing a mother come or go with her child? Nothing about this makes sense to me...I work part time in a school and I see people coming and going with their children all the time for appointments or whatever....why would it draw anyone's attention....somebody wise me up!!!! LOL

I think that since Kyron looks like a school-aged child, some people might question or make a mental note of seeing him leave the school with his mom so early in the morning (possibly thoughts of, "Oh, he's not going to school today" or "That mom must have checked her son out of school")... Now, if I saw a mother leaving a school early in the morning with a toddler, that probably wouldn't phase me...

We're homeschoolers now, and people definitely notice (and question) our children out in public during school hours, lol!

 

[LaceSprocket]

(snipped by me)

Except, if there is a reciept showing TH was at a store some miles away, having completed a purchase of (something) at 9:12...that 15 minutes gets a bit...well...

Let me put it this way.

TH says good bye to Kyron at 8:45.
TH returns to her car and puts Baby K in, add 5 minutes. 8:50.
TH drives to store, add 10 minutes. 9:00 am
TH takes baby out, goes into store, buys something, add 12 minutes. 9:12

It's now 9:12 am, the time there is a reciept for.

So when did she abduct, kill, hide well enough so no searches have yet found Kyron?

The timeline is just too tight...can't be done. Even with 10-15 minutes extra on one side or the other, the timeline just can't be worked out to where he can be hidden as well as he apparently has been.

I just can't see it working, not with this info. It's just too tight. Like wearing a pair of jeans 4 sizes too small...lots of contortion and exercise to get into them, and when you do, you're bulging and immobile, your toes are numb from lack of circulation and you can't breathe - and that's not even getting them zipped. LOL.

The timeline is too tight, with the turf technician's statements.

I soooooooooo hope LE is re-interviewing him...because if they didn't interview him at the beginning, I have very little hope that Kyron will ever be found. If they've been chasing an "obvious" suspect but she's not the one, some bad guy has gotten a 2.5 month head start, and, I'm sure, has attended to all the little details and covered themselves very, very well by now.

And that would just suck.

Best-
Herding Cats

That's very true and it makes sense, if you assume that Terri worked alone. But if she had help, her accomplice (or accomplices) did the "dirty work" while Terri ran around town giving herself alibi after alibi.

Personally, I have no idea if Terri acted alone or not. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if a whole new cast of characters emerges before this is all over. Crazy-making, it all is. :crazy:

 

[Calliope]

:waitasec: Was he parked in the spot where LE pictured the white truck? Was that on the video? I'm on wonky wireless and video won't work...so I can't watch to verify if he says he was parked where LE's picture was...and if he was, I'm surprised the focus of the story wasn't that his truck was mistaken for the other one, rather than he didn't see another vehicle.

That said, if he'd backed onto the access road so he could unload his equipment, it's possible that someone only saw the front of the truck and didn't notice the trailer. I'm just surprised that the story wasn't partly about his truck possibly being mis-id'd as the other one.

That's what the reporter said. He would have been there twice while unlocking / unchaining to get to the field and again when locking and rechaining as he left.

 

[gardeness]

Likewise, if someone other than TH took him, they were just as lucky. Why is it 'magic' and somehow unbelievable that TH could have gotten lucky but not so much for someone else? As far as I know, NO ONE saw Kyron leave with anyone...and TH is last person to have seen him in the school.

I would think that a pedophile most likely wouldn't have a toddler with him/her--seems like being empty-handed would help aid in this kind of act... MOO

 

[rosiebean]

(snipped by me)

Except, if there is a reciept showing TH was at a store some miles away, having completed a purchase of (something) at 9:12...that 15 minutes gets a bit...well...

Let me put it this way.

TH says good bye to Kyron at 8:45.
TH returns to her car and puts Baby K in, add 5 minutes. 8:50.
TH drives to store, add 10 minutes. 9:00 am
TH takes baby out, goes into store, buys something, add 12 minutes. 9:12

It's now 9:12 am, the time there is a reciept for.

So when did she abduct, kill, hide well enough so no searches have yet found Kyron?

The timeline is just too tight...can't be done. Even with 10-15 minutes extra on one side or the other, the timeline just can't be worked out to where he can be hidden as well as he apparently has been.

I just can't see it working, not with this info. It's just too tight. Like wearing a pair of jeans 4 sizes too small...lots of contortion and exercise to get into them, and when you do, you're bulging and immobile, your toes are numb from lack of circulation and you can't breathe - and that's not even getting them zipped. LOL.

The timeline is too tight, with the turf technician's statements.

I soooooooooo hope LE is re-interviewing him...because if they didn't interview him at the beginning, I have very little hope that Kyron will ever be found. If they've been chasing an "obvious" suspect but she's not the one, some bad guy has gotten a 2.5 month head start, and, I'm sure, has attended to all the little details and covered themselves very, very well by now.

And that would just suck.

Best-
Herding Cats

If Kryon was hidden between 8:30ish and 9:12, the timeline is too tight.

However, the timeline is not to tight to simply get him into the white truck and away from school...and given that TH AND her very good friend who is not apparently cooperating with LE cannot account for their time AFTER 10...I'd guess that if they are responsible, they did whatever they did after 10 and used the between 9 and 10 timeline to further establish TH's alibi.

 

[RubyRed]

I thought this, too. If she isn't a poi or a suspect, than I guess she could be a witness or witnesses who put the truck on the access road. But why would she put it in two different locations.

And it STILL really bugs me that LE apparently missed this guy :banghead:

bbm

I don't think LE missed this guy. I feel very sure they knew about him right at the start. jmo

 

[Calliope]

You must have seen the video differently than me, I certainly noticed the trailer with the, red, riding lawn mower on it.

'Course I noticed it. I also noticed the bright white truck pulling a drably colored trailer / mower. How long after the 4th did LE give out / post for download those questionnaires? The ones with pictures of a white truck on them? I can see where someone driving by or in another spot at the school saw his truck and then in their mind, weeks later, thought it was the Horman's.

 

[nurseratchett]

Likewise, if someone other than TH took him, they were just as lucky. Why is it 'magic' and somehow unbelievable that TH could have gotten lucky but not so much for someone else? As far as I know, NO ONE saw Kyron leave with anyone...and TH is last person to have seen him in the school.

Thank you for pointing that out. It's been my opinion now for quite some time that it would have been miraculous for a stranger to have taken Kyron out of that school unnoticed.

Lucky is an understatement. If anyone could do it, TH had the best, and most likely chance at success.

 

[Herding Cats]

Likewise, if someone other than TH took him, they were just as lucky. Why is it 'magic' and somehow unbelievable that TH could have gotten lucky but not so much for someone else? As far as I know, NO ONE saw Kyron leave with anyone...and TH is last person to have seen him in the school.

For me (who else would I be speaking for? LOL), it comes down to TH having a very tight timeline to take/murder/hide Kyron, whereas an unsub could've taken him between 9-10, and had several hours worth of time to do whatever it was the unsub did.

It's not magic, to me. It's simple logic. The less time you have, the harder it will be to do a crime. The longer time you have, the "better" the crime will be.

It could be luck. But if it was luck, TH used all her luck from this life and the next in this one act. There were too many times she could've been caught, and a short timespan in which to catch her making errors...and they haven't been able to.

But if it's a bad guy that no-one knows about, well then, the only luck he'd need is snatching Kyron. And I believe that the atmosphere was so chaotic that even that isn't a stretch.

Just moo, of course...but I can't help thinking that a bad guy is getting away with this, and that is horrific to me.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[sorrell skye]

(I) noticed that there was some children that came out the back door, and I thought, ‘please don’t come down and play soccer.’ But they came out and looked at some plants that were in the raised bed.

I hope LE talked to those children to see if they saw Kyron leaving the building.

This indicates to me that the GK was aware of any children leaving the building.

IOW - I believe that if someone would have left the school grounds with little Ky (or had seen Kyron leaving along the soccer field track toward the access road) & had passed anywhere near where the GK was, the GK would have noticed. MOO

 

[rosiebean]

That's what the reporter said. He would have been there twice while unlocking / unchaining to get to the field and again when locking and rechaining as he left.

Well, if the reporter said it, I'll take it with a grain of salt, lol. Did the reporter mean the same 'spot' as in 'access road' or the same specific spot as in 'his truck was parked under the same tree LE showed the other white truck parked under'? (I don't know if there was a tree, don't remember, just saying there's a difference in second-hand information between 'same spot' meaning general area and 'same spot' meaning very specific spot.

And again, if the groundskeeper's truck was parked in the exact same spot as LE's picture...I'm shocked that the story wasn't "We've ID'd the white truck on the access road!".

 

[Calliope]

I don't think what he said has any bearing on the case, EXCEPT, he didn't see it. That does NOT mean it wasn't there. SOMEWHERE.

This is Oregon, for goodness sake! I haven't lived there for more than twenty years, but everyone, LOL, well, almost, has a pick up! He just didn't NOTE it. Doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Besides, there was already some witness? don't recall which one, that saw the truck that morning at the school.

REDHERRING!

JMHO
fran

ps....eye witnesses are the most unreliable source of testimony. LE has already said, not sure which location they were talking about, but they already had 'one witness' and needed someone to back it up. They want someone to come forward that PARTICULARLY DOES RECALL that morning and seeing that specific truck in the specified locations....fran

And now they have someone who has stated the truck wasn't in those specific locations. I don't think that she took the truck to school that morning has ever been disputed. All this does is tell LE she didn't park there.

 

[skylineneighbor]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html
This photo shows the NW corner of the 2nd story of the building, which is where K's classroom is? There is a back door there. Below to the right is the soccer field. Looking directly ahead, there are raised planter boxes, all along the walk, which is right outside the classrooms.

The emergency exits shown in this picture belong to K1 classes.

 

[liz b.]

Likewise, if someone other than TH took him, they were just as lucky. Why is it 'magic' and somehow unbelievable that TH could have gotten lucky but not so much for someone else? As far as I know, NO ONE saw Kyron leave with anyone...and TH is last person to have seen him in the school.

He could have been killed inside the school,and the killer could have taken his body out ....

All jmo