Skyline Groundskeeper says he saw no white truck -Timeline Clarified

[nurseratchett]

Ah yes, I misunderstood you .. thought you were saying TH would have accommodated the lawn guy into her schedule (eww, that sounds icky, lol).

OMG, that was funny, ....I know I need a brief reprieve every now and then, and humor is my most favorite defense mechanism. TY, I needed that "lite moment" :dance:

 

[cluciano63]

How does Kyron get to this pick-up point, if that is what happened? Just wander over there and no one sees him? I guess I need to look at the photos of the school, etc. Not seeing it now.

 

[nurseratchett]

How does Kyron get to this pick-up point, if that is what happened? Just wander over there and no one sees him? I guess I need to look at the photos of the school, etc. Not seeing it now.

After looking at the photos on the side of the school that abuts the soccer field, and the pics of the access road itself, from different view points, yes, it would be pretty easy, IMO, for a kid to walk down to the access road and get in a car without even being seen. When I was out there last, the grass was pretty tall, and there are enough sightline barriers that it wouldn't be too much of a challenge to avoid being seen.

 

[liz b.]

It's telling that it was the LE investigators themselves who described this witness as " credible " They must have been familiar with the soccer field and the access road, IMO

All JMO

 

[Adrienne37]

After looking at the photos on the side of the school that abuts the soccer field, and the pics of the access road itself, from different view points, yes, it would be pretty easy, IMO, for a kid to walk down to the access road and get in a car without even being seen. When I was out there last, the grass was pretty tall, and there are enough sightline barriers that it wouldn't be too much of a challenge to avoid being seen.

Just to expand on your point, again, as Terri was his stepmother, no one in the school would have thought it odd that he walked out with her or to meet her. JMO.

 

[1Chump]

IMO, the Turf Tech just blew wide open any evidence regarding white truck, access road, another person. A good defense attorney is going to be able to show how the Turf Tech told one story on video. When talking to investigators alledgedly "changed" his story to fit their theory. Reasonable doubt that investigators are fighting the evidence to their theory rather than fighting their theory to the evidence.

IMO, you also have the problem that the Turf Tech and his white truck was in the location they want witnesses who saw someone other than TH near KH's truck. Any witnesses cannot be sure which white truck they saw or who they saw unless they were right there next to it.

IMO, while I understand that everyone including LE has gut feelings. The problem with gut feeling is they are based on your own experience. Your personal experience is not everyone's experience.

To explain it, in a conversation with my sil, I repeated something my Mom said before she died. My sil replied 'Now I don't believe that." I was really confused. First, I thought why would I lie about something little and unimportant like that. Second, I got angry that she was calling me a liar when I did not lie. Then I got it. It wasn't about me. It was about her. My sil lied about everything. Her instincts were based on the way she acted. Since she lied all the time, she assumed everyone lied all the time. Her instincts were always "they are lying." My instincts are always "they are telling the truth." I almost have to be hit in the face with the lie to believe it is a lie. Yet, I will eventually admit I was wrong. She can have tons of evidence showing it is truthful and still refuses to believe it. IMO, she won't admit she was wrong because personally she will NEVER admit she lied.

IMO, LE gut instincts is everyone lies. Not necessarily intentionally lie. Like with the Turf Tech he was not intentionally lying so they had to help him to remember the truth which happns to fit their theory. Their theory is like a dog with a bone. Even when faced with other possibilities, they cannot let go.

IMO, they are afraid of being wrong because that means they allowed a guilty person to go free. Like in this case, they have a theory that TH was involved. If they are wrong, they wasted all this time focusing on the wrong person and now will probably never find the guilty. No, I am in no way saying it is a conscience choice. They really believe in their theory. But locking into a theory so tightly that they don't make adjustments could seriously hurt any case.

IMO, the Turf Tech is going to be the best evidence in any circumstantial case that investigators locked into a theory and are not following where the evidence leads them.

 

[human]

IMO, the Turf Tech just blew wide open any evidence regarding white truck, access road, another person. A good defense attorney is going to be able to show how the Turf Tech told one story on video. When talking to investigators alledgedly "changed" his story to fit their theory. Reasonable doubt that investigators are fighting the evidence to their theory rather than fighting their theory to the evidence.

IMO, you also have the problem that the Turf Tech and his white truck was in the location they want witnesses who saw someone other than TH near KH's truck. Any witnesses cannot be sure which white truck they saw or who they saw unless they were right there next to it.

IMO, while I understand that everyone including LE has gut feelings. The problem with gut feeling is they are based on your own experience. Your personal experience is not everyone's experience.

To explain it, in a conversation with my sil, I repeated something my Mom said before she died. My sil replied 'Now I don't believe that." I was really confused. First, I thought why would I lie about something little and unimportant like that. Second, I got angry that she was calling me a liar when I did not lie. Then I got it. It wasn't about me. It was about her. My sil lied about everything. Her instincts were based on the way she acted. Since she lied all the time, she assumed everyone lied all the time. Her instincts were always "they are lying." My instincts are always "they are telling the truth." I almost have to be hit in the face with the lie to believe it is a lie. Yet, I will eventually admit I was wrong. She can have tons of evidence showing it is truthful and still refuses to believe it. IMO, she won't admit she was wrong because personally she will NEVER admit she lied.

IMO, LE gut instincts is everyone lies. Not necessarily intentionally lie. Like with the Turf Tech he was not intentionally lying so they had to help him to remember the truth which happns to fit their theory. Their theory is like a dog with a bone. Even when faced with other possibilities, they cannot let go.

IMO, they are afraid of being wrong because that means they allowed a guilty person to go free. Like in this case, they have a theory that TH was involved. If they are wrong, they wasted all this time focusing on the wrong person and now will probably never find the guilty. No, I am in no way saying it is a conscience choice. They really believe in their theory. But locking into a theory so tightly that they don't make adjustments could seriously hurt any case.

IMO, the Turf Tech is going to be the best evidence in any circumstantial case that investigators locked into a theory and are not following where the evidence leads them.

Do people feel that this is the first time LE ever heard of this guy when Le said that they were going to interview everyone including delivery drivers?

I would think someone knows that the grass is mowed on Fridays.

 

[SurfieTX]

IMO, the Turf Tech just blew wide open any evidence regarding white truck, access road, another person. A good defense attorney is going to be able to show how the Turf Tech told one story on video. When talking to investigators alledgedly "changed" his story to fit their theory. Reasonable doubt that investigators are fighting the evidence to their theory rather than fighting their theory to the evidence.

IMO, you also have the problem that the Turf Tech and his white truck was in the location they want witnesses who saw someone other than TH near KH's truck. Any witnesses cannot be sure which white truck they saw or who they saw unless they were right there next to it.

IMO, while I understand that everyone including LE has gut feelings. The problem with gut feeling is they are based on your own experience. Your personal experience is not everyone's experience.

To explain it, in a conversation with my sil, I repeated something my Mom said before she died. My sil replied 'Now I don't believe that." I was really confused. First, I thought why would I lie about something little and unimportant like that. Second, I got angry that she was calling me a liar when I did not lie. Then I got it. It wasn't about me. It was about her. My sil lied about everything. Her instincts were based on the way she acted. Since she lied all the time, she assumed everyone lied all the time. Her instincts were always "they are lying." My instincts are always "they are telling the truth." I almost have to be hit in the face with the lie to believe it is a lie. Yet, I will eventually admit I was wrong. She can have tons of evidence showing it is truthful and still refuses to believe it. IMO, she won't admit she was wrong because personally she will NEVER admit she lied.

IMO, LE gut instincts is everyone lies. Not necessarily intentionally lie. Like with the Turf Tech he was not intentionally lying so they had to help him to remember the truth which happns to fit their theory. Their theory is like a dog with a bone. Even when faced with other possibilities, they cannot let go.

IMO, they are afraid of being wrong because that means they allowed a guilty person to go free. Like in this case, they have a theory that TH was involved. If they are wrong, they wasted all this time focusing on the wrong person and now will probably never find the guilty. No, I am in no way saying it is a conscience choice. They really believe in their theory. But locking into a theory so tightly that they don't make adjustments could seriously hurt any case.

IMO, the Turf Tech is going to be the best evidence in any circumstantial case that investigators locked into a theory and are not following where the evidence leads them.

Methinks Mowerman was an intentional leak by Houze. With Scott Peterson, there were the "vans" and the "cult people/baby stealers."

 

[wondering1]

IMO, the Turf Tech is going to be the best evidence in any circumstantial case that investigators locked into a theory and are not following where the evidence leads them.

sbm~

Only if LE's theory is that KH's white truck was parked on the access road that morning. And we don't know that. All we know is that one or more witnesses id'd it there. Afawk, they might even be referring to TH herself as that witness, since she is neither a poi or suspect as far as LE's dealings with the public.

If LE's theory is that the witness(es) who id'd the truck on the access road is wrong, and they think the white truck was actually somewhere else at the school, then TT is a great witness b/c, among other things, he has put his own truck on two separate locations on the access road. Once coming and once going. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe he's also the unidentified person person who was seen in or near *KH's* white truck. Maybe the same person who saw the truck on the access road and concluded that it was KH's, is the same witness who saw a person in or around that same truck. So maybe TT just cleared that up as well.

jmospeculation

 

[Tuffy]

sbm~

Only if LE's theory is that KH's white truck was parked on the access road that morning. And we don't know that. All we know is that one or more witnesses id'd it there. Afawk, they might even be referring to TH herself as that witness, since she is neither a poi or suspect as far as LE's dealings with the public.

If LE's theory is that the witness(es) who id'd the truck on the access road is wrong, and they think the white truck was actually somewhere else at the school, then TT is a great witness b/c, among other things, he has put his own truck on two separate locations on the access road. Once coming and once going. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe he's also the unidentified person person who was seen in or near *KH's* white truck. Maybe the same person who saw the truck on the access road and concluded that it was KH's, is the same witness who saw a person in or around that same truck. So maybe TT just cleared that up as well.

jmospeculation

Yeah, I'm with you, wondering1. I don't think the turf tech's statements exonerate Terri. I don't think it points to her guilt either. I think its just one more statement used to try to reconstruct the day Kyron went missing. We know that Terri was at school that morning, and we know she drove the white truck. Another adult may have been in it or near it with Terri or while Terri and Kyron were inside the school. The white truck may have been in the parking lot or on the access road also.

If the turf tech's statement is correct we can rule out two times that morning that the white truck was not parked on the access road.

 

[cluciano63]

The more I think about it, the more the posing of the white truck near school in photos and the additional questions bother me. LE already asked, via written questionnaires, months ago, anyone who saw Terri or the white truck to come forward. Presumably people did; now it almost seems as though they are saying "come on, we just need those who can say they saw another person in it, or those who saw it over there." Shouldn't they already know who saw it and contact those people to see if they have additional memories without asking such pointed, leading questions? And if they didn't ask the people who responded that they saw the truck at Skyline these questions a long time ago-basic questions, where was it, was anyone hanging around it or in it-then what are they doing anyway?

I will assume they knew about the GK only because it is really poor work if they did not. I just think they should have asked if anyone who had seen the white truck on that day who had not yet come forward ,please do so. The leading question-aspect of this kind of scares me. There is always someone out there who will say, yeah, I saw it on the hill, with a man lurking around it, etc.

In my mind, there is a difference between jogging memories and providing the exact memory you want them to have.

 

[SurfieTX]

Totally O/T, but I wonder how Kaine does it - driving around in the famous "white Ford F250" every day. Ugh.

 

[sorrell skye]

IMO, the *different lens* may have been a bit out of focus, especially given the GK's statement, whose timeline about the access road was reported in the media shortly after the release of the *new/improved flier*.

I'm thinking the newly released flier that depicted the white truck parked in 2 different spots out in front of the school has gone the way of the failed MFH *sting* - unsubstantiated.

MOO

What I would like to know is when the GK actually left the campus. The only info currently available is that he said he was mowing the soccer field til 8:30. We don't have info regarding when he pulled out onto Skyline Blvd. and left the school.

If he was mowing the field until 8:30 (as he stated in his interview), it would have taken a few minutes (feasibly 15) to load up the equipment, secure it, drive beyond the chain/gate area, get out, lock the chain/gate, get back in the truck, and drive away.

Also - if the GK was in the process of loading the mower back onto the trailer @ the time that TH and/or Ky walked by, they would have passed by him or run right smack-dab into him there on that access road.

I'm of the opinion that TH didn't park on Skyline Blvd. or the soccer field access road. Nor do I believe that anyone moved the truck from the school parking lot to either of those locations.

I believe the Horman truck was parked on the school lot (per the 7th grader TK's statement) and didn't leave the school property until TH got behind the wheel & drove it to FM.

MOO again.

 

[cypress]

Do people feel that this is the first time LE ever heard of this guy when Le said that they were going to interview everyone including delivery drivers?

I would think someone knows that the grass is mowed on Fridays.

I'm not sure this is the first time LE talked to Turf Guy, but I do think it's the first time they heard his account of not seeing the truck and possibly him seeing the children playing.

If LE had no reason to believe Terri had an accomplice, and before DS they didn't, because they certainly weren't asking the public to identify a mystery person, then they had no reason to ask Turf Guy if he saw Terri's truck on the access road that day or about the mystery person near the truck.

He may have gotten the generic questions about when he was there and if he saw anything suspicious, but I think that's it. Him not seeing a truck or person on an access road that police weren't looking for during the first two months of the investigation wouldn't have come up, ya know? There would've been no questions to prompt those responses.

I think LE was probably a little surprised by Turf Guy insofar as they put the question to the public not really remembering Turf Guy being there that morning and being as good a witness as anyone who parked in that lot and perhaps better, IMHO.

 

[sorrell skye]

At this point, I'm inclined to believe the witness sighting of a white truck on Skyline Blvd. or the soccer field access road (that was believed to possibly be the Horman truck) was a mistaken sighting/tip/lead (in terms of it being the Horman truck).

LE did the right thing - they followed up on it, put out the info to the public asking for help, and that witness sighting has not been verified, based on this new info from the GK.

 

[cypress]

IMO, the *different lens* may have been a bit out of focus, especially given the GK's statement, whose timeline about the access road was reported in the media shortly after the release of the *new/improved flier*.

I'm thinking the newly released flier that depicted the white truck parked in 2 different spots out in front of the school has gone the way of the failed MFH *sting* - unsubstantiated.

MOO

What I would like to know is when the GK actually left the campus. The only info currently available is that he said he was mowing the soccer field til 8:30. We don't have info regarding when he pulled out onto Skyline Blvd. and left the school.

If he was mowing the field until 8:30 (as he stated in his interview), it would have taken a few minutes (feasibly 15) to load up the equipment, secure it, drive beyond the chain/gate area, get out, lock the chain/gate, get back in the truck, and drive away.

Also - if the GK was in the process of loading the mower back onto the trailer @ the time that TH and/or Ky walked by, they would have passed by him or run right smack-dab into him there on that access road.

I'm of the opinion that TH didn't park on Skyline Blvd. or the soccer field access road. Nor do I believe that anyone moved the truck from the school parking lot to either of those locations.

I believe the Horman truck was parked on the school lot (per the 7th grader TK's statement) and didn't leave the school property until TH got behind the wheel & drove it to FM.

MOO again.

He was interviewed again...he said he finished mowing around 8:30 and left sometime between then and 9:00.

 

[sorrell skye]

He was interviewed again...he said he finished mowing around 8:30 and left sometime between then and 9:00.

TY Cypress. I didn't know he was interviewed again. Good info to have.

So - if he finished mowing around 8:30, then he was more than likely still on campus when TH would have left, and if she left with Ky via that side door & walked the length of the pathway that runs parallel to the soccer field, she would have either passed by the GK, or would have been seen by him - especially with her long bright red hair.

The GK is said to be a credible witness. He also seems to have been paying attention to what was going on around him - since he noticed the other kids that came out while he was mowing.

At the very least, this info puts to rest the scenario that she smuggled Ky out of the school via the side door & along the walkway adjacent to the soccer field unseen, IMO.

ETA: Is there a link to the new interview with the GK? Not that I'm doubting, I just like to bookmark & read everything for myself.

 

[i.b.nora]

I don't think the Sheriff even knew about Stensen the turf technician until his story was told by the KATU reporter.

I think their first in-person meeting with him was yesterday on Friday the 13th. Two detectives and a deputy district attorney met with him at the school.

I think this investigation has gone nowhere and is going nowhere. They are no closer now than they were 2 months ago to solving this case. They need to stop with the questionaire routine and do some solid detective work. They need to have press conferences once a week, (not the write-in/questionaire kind of press conference). The conferences need to be with the sheriff, the detectives, whoever is in charge, not with the mom and dad. They need to communicate with the people of Portland, they need to get people truly engaged in finding Kyron and thereby helping to find out what happened.

I think Portlanders deserve way more than what they have been handed so far.

 

[i.b.nora]

School groundskeeper clarifies timeline to investigators

 

[cypress]

TY Cypress. I didn't know he was interviewed again. Good info to have.

So - if he finished mowing around 8:30, then he was more than likely still on campus when TH would have left, and if she left with Ky via that side door & walked the length of the pathway that runs parallel to the soccer field, she would have either passed by the GK, or would have been seen by him - especially with her long bright red hair.

The GK is said to be a credible witness. He also seems to have been paying attention to what was going on around him - since he noticed the other kids that came out while he was mowing.

At the very least, this info puts to rest the scenario that she smuggled Ky out of the school via the side door & along the walkway adjacent to the soccer field unseen, IMO.

ETA: Is there a link to the new interview with the GK? Not that I'm doubting, I just like to bookmark & read everything for myself.

Sure thing!! I like links, too.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html

PORTLAND, Ore. - A groundskeeper, who was mowing the soccer field at Skyline School the morning Kyron Horman disappeared, clarified his timeline to investigators Friday morning and it differs slightly from what he told a KATU News reporter earlier in the week.

Portland Parks and Recreation turf technician, Dave Stensen, told a reporter he never saw the Hormans’ white Ford F-250 pickup truck in the two areas investigators asked about during a Wednesday news conference.

Those two places were on an access road to the soccer field and investigators say they want to talk to anyone who may have seen the Hormans’ truck on it between 8:15 a.m. and 8:45 a.m., Friday June 4.

Stensen told a reporter earlier in the week that he cut the grass on the soccer field between 7:45 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. and never saw the truck on the road.

He had to use the gravel access road to get to the soccer field, only he apparently used it before and after that half-hour window of time.

He met with two detectives and a deputy district attorney at Skyline School early Friday to go over his timeline in detail.

Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. or 9 a.m., which means he could have missed seeing the Horman truck being in the two spots investigators are interested in, especially since he spent his time and attention at the school mowing the soccer field.

Investigators say that puts him on the gravel road outside of the critical half-hour window they want to know about since they have witnesses who saw someone in or around the Hormans’ truck during that time.

Still, authorities said it was helpful to have spoken to Stensen in depth.

Investigators say they are still hoping to speak with anyone who was at the school the morning of June 4 and saw the truck that Kyron’s stepmother, Terri Horman, was driving and anyone who was in it or around it.

Investigators are still trying to identify that person in the Hormans’ truck and say that could be key information into Kyron’s disappearance.