Thailand - FOUND ALIVE - Officials Believe 12 Boys And Coach Trapped In Cave , 23 June 2018

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  • #501
I've been catching a few posts in this thread here and there. I am literally worried sick and crying about these boys. They are like my son and his soccer friends. I can't bear to look at pics or read too much. I keep praying for a miracle. Feeling panicky just thinking about them having to dive but good to read the people involved, including the boys, are upbeat and brave.
 
  • #502
So they'll either have to drill the hole, or pump the water out, or....?

Everything else seems slightly unrealistic?
 
  • #503
I know this isn't realistic lol, but I keep wishing they could sedate them, attach a breathing apparatus then put them in some type of container/bag to get them out.

That actually sounds feasible, IMO. I keep having the completely unrealistic thought that I wish they could somehow put a giant tarp over the entire mountain where the cave is so that no more water can come in when it rains. But the water is probably traveling in from underground river systems so that would probably not do any good, LOL.
 
  • #504
  • #505
Such a tricky situation. Maybe they will have to plan each extraction case by case. The physically fit/older boys that may be more autonomous with the dive could go first and the weaker boys later when they have recovered a bit from their ordeal.
This last week I have been thinking of the similar miracle of the Chilean mining accident where it took 69 days to free those 33 men. It really buoys the spirit to witness a rescue put together by many nations and cultures pitching in together with the common goal of saving lives.

Hoping all will go well for the team, their coach and the brave people of the rescue effort 🤬🤬🤬
 
  • #506
I know this isn't realistic lol, but I keep wishing they could sedate them, attach a breathing apparatus then put them in some type of container/bag to get them out.

I think Bill Whitehouse, vice-chair of the British Cave Rescue Council, is talking about something like this here:
"Speaking to BBC Radio 4’s Today programme he suggested they could be guided through the water in “packages”.
Asked how feasible it would be to teach the children to dive, he said: “It is certainly not easy. The other alternative is that you literally bring them out in packages. In other words you fit them with diving equipment: a full face mask, instead of having a gag in your mouth like a lot of divers use; package them up; put the correct weights on them so that they are neutrally bouyant and are not going to get stuck again. It has been done before.”

Thailand cave rescue: medics reach boys – live updates
 
  • #507
What's the arm sweep thing? I don't know anything about scuba diving. :)

The regulator sweep is when you don't have the breathing hose in your mouth. It is dangling somewhere from your air tank. You put your arm back near the tank and sweep your arm forward to catch the regulator. Sometimes it take a few attempts.
 
  • #508
Someone said earlier the coach should get out last, but maybe it would be helpful for the boys if he went out first? He is their coach, they trust him, they learn from him, they might feel if he did it we can do it too (like they learned football from him).


It's a multi-faceted issue of triage. The medical staff will need to evaluate; sometimes the weaker go out later than the more stable, as we saw in the 2010 Copiapó mining accident. (See the section on "
Order of miners and rescuers" in the wiki link.)

I have hope after that successful rescue of Webb and Russell in the Beaconsfield Mine Collapse. Sure, flooding wasn't an issue, but it was a remarkable effort after a great deal of time.

There's worry-- look at how treacherous the search for Ben McDaniel was. Cave diving is no joke, no picnic and nothing an amateur should attempt.

But as I said: I have hope. These young men have survived thus far, and are in very capable hands. If it takes dive lessons, they will be guided by the best. If they have to wait, they will have physicians on staff. And with so many of us sending love & encouragement and support their way... well, miracles can and do happen more than we realise. :)


Edited due to bad grammar.
 
Last edited:
  • #509
The regulator sweep is when you don't have the breathing hose in your mouth. It is dangling somewhere from your air tank. You put your arm back near the tank and sweep your arm forward to catch the regulator. Sometimes it take a few attempts.

Ah thank you for explaining. Frightening situation for a novice I'm sure. :eek:
 
  • #510
Utterly horrifying to me-- I am no diver, but have an armchair fascination with certain extreme sports-- cave diving and high-altitude climbing. I know enough that I won't do either of those things! (Lost a good friend in the Nepal Quake of 2015.) Even regular spelunking scares the heck out of me. :)

But again! These young men are in good hands! I expect good results, and count on the resilience of the human spirit. If they've made it this far, they can go even more.

Edited to add:
Bloody--! This was meant as a reply to Elainera, just above this post. Still getting adjusted to this new system. :)
 
  • #511
  • #512
I wonder when a decision will be made? Time is running out before the next round of rains. Praying for them. They have been found alive. They have to get out safely. They just have to.
 
  • #513
Yes, exactly! I gave up scuba training when I panicked in the pool--a very controlled environment and very physically fit. I did the arm sweep thing and could not retrieve my regulator because it was hooked on my tank. I am reliving that panic reading this thread--it has me on pins and needles for these boys.

The average non-trained diver has no idea how confining and
clausterphobic this can be. If panic sets in, lots of things can happen, including drowning.
I'm glad to see some other countries' experts are involved because
IMO the Thai's are a backward country in many ways. I'm sure
their Navy Seals are in no way as skillful as US Seals.
 
  • #514
Guardian Update:
"Ben Raymenants, who was 400m behind the British divers when the boys were found, suggests they are too weak to attempt a dive rescue for the moment.

Raymenants said the boys had made their way though the tunnel as part of a local initiation rite.

They had no food. They left their backpacks and their shoes before wading in there, trying to go the end of the tunnel like an initiation for local young boys to go to the end of the tunnel and write your name on the wall and then make it back.

A flash flood because of sudden heavy rain locked them in, with no shoes and no food. They had just one flash light which obviously ran out.
RSBBM
Thanks for this link! The initiation rite explanation for their presence so far into that cave makes sense.
 
  • #515
The average non-trained diver has no idea how confining and
clausterphobic this can be. If panic sets in, lots of things can happen, including drowning.
I'm glad to see some other countries' experts are involved because
IMO the Thai's are a backward country in many ways. I'm sure
their Navy Seals are in no way as skillful as US Seals.

I think referring to Thailand as a "backward" country is incredibly insulting. As you said, people from all over the world are pitching in on this rescue. It's not about nationality, it's about decent human beings giving aide. Nationality means nothing when it comes to big rescues. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the 2010 Copiapó mining accident, a daring yet successful international effort.
 
  • #516
That actually sounds feasible, IMO. I keep having the completely unrealistic thought that I wish they could somehow put a giant tarp over the entire mountain where the cave is so that no more water can come in when it rains. But the water is probably traveling in from underground river systems so that would probably not do any good, LOL.

Unfortunately, its monsoon season. Not regular nor severe rain but super severe, continuous rainfall. It no doubts come in from various sources. The people helping them are all experts, so they will do their very best.
 
  • #517
I think Bill Whitehouse, vice-chair of the British Cave Rescue Council, is talking about something like this here:
"Speaking to BBC Radio 4’s Today programme he suggested they could be guided through the water in “packages”.
Asked how feasible it would be to teach the children to dive, he said: “It is certainly not easy. The other alternative is that you literally bring them out in packages. In other words you fit them with diving equipment: a full face mask, instead of having a gag in your mouth like a lot of divers use; package them up; put the correct weights on them so that they are neutrally bouyant and are not going to get stuck again. It has been done before.”

Thailand cave rescue: medics reach boys – live updates

They need these
Kirby Morgan SuperLite SL 17B Diving Helmet

Screen Shot 2018-07-03 at 12.40.19 PM.png
 
  • #518
From what I have read the connecting passages within this cave system are not of the "walk through" type, they are more "crawl through". So a "chamber" is a big "room" within the cave system but to go to the next area you have to crawl on your belly into a small hole that leads to a long narrow passage through the rock to the next big chamber. The long narrow crawl passage may have turns and places that become very, very narrow where a rock sticks out of the ceiling or the side wall. It could have some water running through it, even during the dry season.

One description I read of this cave was that at places the passages were too small for the divers to have an oxygen tank on their back. So that is a tight passage, for sure. These boys will need to be fully conscious and participating to get out of where they are through flooded passages.

There are caves here in Pennsylvania known to be "a long muddy crawl". Yuck. They are not the Luray Caverns! Southern West Virginia has some really huge dry cave systems. But I still would never go into any cave, wet or dry, when it was due to rain.

The same article said it takes these experienced cave divers 6 hours to get from the entrance to where the boys are. They are "swimming" through areas of flooded narrow passages going against a swiftly flowing water current. So it is easy to see how highly risky the "swim out" solution is as an option.

The "wait it out" solution could be risky also. No one has ever stayed inside that cave at the area where the boys are to know whether or not it remains dry throughout the rainy season. As more and more rain falls, that area could become flooded also, so that is a risk.

What about drilling down to them from above and bringing them up in a rescue capsule like they did here in Western Pennsylvania at the Que Creek mine and also at the Chilean mine? The illustrations show they are about a half mile under the surface - so about 2600 ft. of drilling.
 
  • #519
  • #520
From what I have read the connecting passages within this cave system are not of the "walk through" type, they are more "crawl through". So a "chamber" is a big "room" within the cave system but to go to the next area you have to crawl on your belly into a small hole that leads to a long narrow passage through the rock to the next big chamber. The long narrow crawl passage may have turns and places that become very, very narrow where a rock sticks out of the ceiling or the side wall. It could have some water running through it, even during the dry season.

One description I read of this cave was that at places the passages were too small for the divers to have an oxygen tank on their back. So that is a tight passage, for sure. These boys will need to be fully conscious and participating to get out of where they are through flooded passages.

There are caves here in Pennsylvania known to be "a long muddy crawl". Yuck. They are not the Luray Caverns! Southern West Virginia has some really huge dry cave systems. But I still would never go into any cave, wet or dry, when it was due to rain.

The same article said it takes these experienced cave divers 6 hours to get from the entrance to where the boys are. They are "swimming" through areas of flooded narrow passages going against a swiftly flowing water current. So it is easy to see how highly risky the "swim out" solution is as an option.

The "wait it out" solution could be risky also. No one has ever stayed inside that cave at the area where the boys are to know whether or not it remains dry throughout the rainy season. As more and more rain falls, that area could become flooded also, so that is a risk.

What about drilling down to them from above and bringing them up in a rescue capsule like they did here in Western Pennsylvania at the Que Creek mine and also at the Chilean mine? The illustrations show they are about a half mile under the surface - so about 2600 ft. of drilling.

OMG now I'm even more scared for them! :eek:
 
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