The actual vs. desired outcome

[rashomon]

I will then disregard the claim that fibers in her bed came from rope, since it isn't supported by any testimony or forensics.

That the fibers in her bed came from the cord used to strangle JBR was a statement of material fact in a federal court. So if the fibers came from a rope and not the cord, then someone may have presented a falsehood to a federal court.

Would you please quote Carnes precisely?
What I have found:

From Judge Carnes' decision (at acandyrose):
Quote:
Further, small pieces of the material on this brown sack were found in the vacuuming of JonBenet's bed and in the body bag that was used to transport her body (SMF 181; PSMF 181), thereby suggesting that either the bag had been near JonBenet or that someone who had touched the bag had also touched JonBenet.

So this does not mention any ligature fibers on JonBenet's bed.

Why not admit there's no basis for the rope claim and move on?

You should tell this to your fellow IDI Callan, for it was (s)he who brought it up. Callan even thought it important enough to open an exra thread for it: ("What the hell is going on here")

 

[Squishified]

Here's a portion of an interview John and Patsy gave in, I think, Atlanta. It is worth watching if your computer handles You Tube videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yaK2RstdQQw

If you watch, please do report back to us with your opinion. TIA

Ah, yes, I've seen that one before. I just watched it again. What stuck out to me was:
On the subject of accepting murderers into church..Patsy: "That's the people you want to be there." Really, Patsy, if an intruder had murdered your child, would you have let him in YOUR church?
John: "That's a problem we Christians have in our churches." Huh? Murderers shouldn't be in churches, they should be in jail.
John: " Jesus addressed the worst of the worst." So, I guess Jesus addressed Patsy??
All in all, it is a creepy interview.

 

[Solace]

Solace, I'd like to ask a couple of questions. John and Patsy weren't up to talking to the police but didn't John call his attorneys and line them up within the first day or two or at least have his friend Bynum the lawyer line up a defense team, maybe on the 26th-27th? Why would you do that so quickly if your emotional condition wasn't going to allow you to talk to the cops? Do you think John feared they'd be arrested? Since they weren't, why didn't they do what most parents would do, which is beat on the police department door (so to speak) begging to talk to anyone and offering any shred of information that might help?

It's very strange for innocent parents not to want to help with answering a few questions before they leave town. Bynum was there and could have said "John you don't have to answer that."

I can not understand why they waited until April 1997 to talk to investigators if they were innocent. That type behavior is not what innocent parents do. At the very least, John and Patsy knew who killed JonBenet, in my opinion.

Okay, here is what I know. A few hours after she was found the Whites were being questioned by "investigators" paid for by the Ramseys. At 6:00 p.m. that evening Mike Bynum "Ramsey's lawyer" called the Whites to ask them if they were okay.

SO, they did not lawyer up a day or two later (or when they wanted to bury their daughter and had trouble getting her released because Eller was holding on to JonBenet's body until the Ramseys came in). THEY HAD LAWYERS IN PLACE WITHIN HOURS.

By the way, no one was treating them badly, they were being treated with kid gloves. No interrogation at the police department offices. Patsy gets to get out of it "stoned". And they get to stonewall for four months.

Now if you know you did not do this, nor did your wife and your child has been sexually assaulted and bludgeoned, why not give an interview with your lawyer with you, as you say BOESP. Because, they want to get their story down; they also want some time to pass, so they can say I really don't remember; it is such a blur; everything was happening at once and I was terrified. That is why.

But John certainly gives that impression on any show I have seen. The holding up of the body is a catalyst. John also says Mike Bynum said they are looking at you and Patsy, let me handle this and John said he did. But John never ever says that his lawyering up was this soon. Steve Thomas says this on Page 41 of his book.

Tell me how it is that John has the presence of mind to get his lawyer on the phone after finding his daughter DEAD, but does not have the presence of mind to call his lawyer and say we found a note and fear we are being watched - they may kill JB. Get the FBI etc. Help us. And the lawyer for John and also our very own Mr. Clinton would have swung into action. He did that afternoon, did he not?

I think John hired his own lawyer and Patsy had her own lawyer and that was because John was not sure what was going to happen. I think he was going to back Patsy if he could, but if it looked like it was going to take him down, he was prepared. I just believe that he would think that way.

 

[BOESP]

Ah, yes, I've seen that one before. I just watched it again. What stuck out to me was:
On the subject of accepting murderers into church..Patsy: "That's the people you want to be there." Really, Patsy, if an intruder had murdered your child, would you have let him in YOUR church?
John: "That's a problem we Christians have in our churches." Huh? Murderers shouldn't be in churches, they should be in jail.
John: " Jesus addressed the worst of the worst." So, I guess Jesus addressed Patsy??
All in all, it is a creepy interview.

I think that interview was Patsy's statement to the world about how she justified her part in JonBenet's death and how dare anyone question what happened between her and her God. Actually, I can't see that a prison term would have helped in this particular case but I do think public confession would have been good for the soul (and a probated sentence with a stay in a psychiatric center).

As to homicidal pedophiles in church ... I prefer the eye-for-an-eye and don't-cast-your-pearls-before-swine approach myself. Put them in general pop with some good common ordinary criminals. Actually, I think they should go straight from the court room to the electric chair and who cares if it hurts.

 

[Squishified]

I think that interview was Patsy's statement to the world about how she justified her part in JonBenet's death and how dare anyone question what happened between her and her God. Actually, I can't see that a prison term would have helped in this particular case but I do think public confession would have been good for the soul (and a probated sentence with a stay in a psychiatric center).

As to homicidal pedophiles in church ... I prefer the eye-for-an-eye and don't-cast-your-pearls-before-swine approach myself. Put them in general pop with some good common ordinary criminals. Actually, I think they should go straight from the court room to the electric chair and who cares if it hurts.

I totally agree with your first sentence. That was also my "take" of the interview but I didn't know how to word it right. So I gave my sarcastic responses instead.

 

[JMO8778]

Here's a portion of an interview John and Patsy gave in, I think, Atlanta. It is worth watching if your computer handles You Tube videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yaK2RstdQQw

If you watch, please do report back to us with your opinion. TIA

I've always wondered if that was a rebuttal to the Rev. Holverstock.It was said in PMPT,that he'd stopped talking to Patsy at church,and when asked about it,he'd say he hadn't seen her,even though he'd walked right past her.So he evidently came to believe that Patsy was guilty later on,and I wonder if John had anything to do with that,as far as what he talked about in his meetings with him.

 

[BOESP]

I totally agree with your first sentence. That was also my "take" of the interview but I didn't know how to word it right. So I gave my sarcastic responses instead.

That's okay. The topic needs some balance.

 

[Solace]

Here's a portion of an interview John and Patsy gave in, I think, Atlanta. It is worth watching if your computer handles You Tube videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yaK2RstdQQw

If you watch, please do report back to us with your opinion. TIA

Who made the one 49 tongues in 39 seconds. It is just hilarious. Or I am getting tired. it is the middle of the week, close to the end of the day. I swear I don't usually make jokes about John, but this was pretty good.

 

[Squishified]

Who made the one 49 tongues in 39 seconds. It is just hilarious. Or I am getting tired. it is the middle of the week, close to the end of the day. I swear I don't usually make jokes about John, but this was pretty good.

I believe that was WhyNut. I LOVE that video!

 

[Squishified]

I've always wondered if that was a rebuttal to the Rev. Holverstock.It was said in PMPT,that he'd stopped talking to Patsy at church,and when asked about it,he'd say he hadn't seen her,even though he'd walked right past her.So he evidently came to believe that Patsy was guilty later on,and I wonder if John had anything to do with that,as far as what he talked about in his meetings with him.

That's an interesting thought, JMO.

 

[BOESP]

<snipped for brevity> John had his lawyer and Patsy had her own lawyer and that was because John was not sure what was going to happen. I think he was going to back Patsy if he could, but if it looked like it was going to take him down, he was prepared. I just believe that he would think that way.

Excellent post Solace and thank you so much. I enjoy reading your observations and conclusions. You have a way of putting things in good order, easily understood. The last paragraph, I think, says it all concerning John and his motives and plans. He did every thing but sign a statement saying he thought Patsy did it, in my opinion. CYA at it's CEO best.

 

[Solace]

I've always wondered if that was a rebuttal to the Rev. Holverstock.It was said in PMPT,that he'd stopped talking to Patsy at church,and when asked about it,he'd say he hadn't seen her,even though he'd walked right past her.So he evidently came to believe that Patsy was guilty later on,and I wonder if John had anything to do with that,as far as what he talked about in his meetings with him.

Interesting JMO.

 

[JMO8778]

I think that interview was Patsy's statement to the world about how she justified her part in JonBenet's death and how dare anyone question what happened between her and her God. Actually, I can't see that a prison term would have helped in this particular case but I do think public confession would have been good for the soul (and a probated sentence with a stay in a psychiatric center).

good thoughts,esp. 'her God',because Lord knows,it's not anyone else's,as I'm sure she's finding out.

As to homicidal pedophiles in church ... I prefer the eye-for-an-eye and don't-cast-your-pearls-before-swine approach myself. Put them in general pop with some good common ordinary criminals. Actually, I think they should go straight from the court room to the electric chair and who cares if it hurts.

I agree,and they can get their pastoral care in prison (or while in the chair,lol).

 

[JMO8778]

Excellent post Solace and thank you so much. I enjoy reading your observations and conclusions. You have a way of putting things in good order, easily understood. The last paragraph, I think, says it all concerning John and his motives and plans. He did every thing but sign a statement saying he thought Patsy did it, in my opinion. CYA at it's CEO best.

also the fact that even John's extended family,inc. his ex-wife,had her own lawyer.I haven't once read that anyone on Patsy's side did.

 

[Squishified]

also the fact that even John's extended family,inc. his ex-wife,had her own lawyer.I haven't once read that anyone on Patsy's side did.

Oooohhh, good observation!

 

[BOESP]

I've always wondered if that was a rebuttal to the Rev. Holverstock.It was said in PMPT,that he'd stopped talking to Patsy at church,and when asked about it,he'd say he hadn't seen her,even though he'd walked right past her.So he evidently came to believe that Patsy was guilty later on,and I wonder if John had anything to do with that,as far as what he talked about in his meetings with him.

I can see why Hoverstock might feel that way. Not only could he have believed Patsy killed JonBenet, but if so it would also mean she used everyone at that church for her own selfish means. I choose to believe that the good reverend chose justice on earth then let the good Lord sort 'em out for eternity.

 

[BOESP]

Who made the one 49 tongues in 39 seconds. It is just hilarious. Or I am getting tired. it is the middle of the week, close to the end of the day. I swear I don't usually make jokes about John, but this was pretty good.

Solace, you've lost me!

 

[Squishified]

Solace, you've lost me!

It's a video on YouTube. I don't know how to post a link to it but I'm sure if you search "John Ramsey tongue" it'll pop right up.

 

[JMO8778]

I can see why Hoverstock might feel that way. Not only could he have believed Patsy killed JonBenet, but if so it would also mean she used everyone at that church for her own selfish means.

yes, and esp. on that first Sunday after the murder when they went to church,and they already had the press arranged to be there.They WANTED to be seen and photographed at church;just as when they went on CNN,this was planned and I think was important to them.

I choose to believe that the good reverend chose justice on earth then let the good Lord sort 'em out for eternity.

yes,there ya go !

 

[Ames]

Solace, you've lost me!

If I am not mistaken, she is talking about John sticking his tongue out so many times, they call him "lizard lips" over at FFJ. (My take on that....when people lie, their mouth and lips get dry....therefore he licks them 50 million times...it was really gross).